Gun Control & RKBA

jmg257

(11,996 posts)

63. Are you stating that there was such a thing as "the unorganized milita" in 1791?

Reply to discntnt_irny_srcsm (Reply #62)

Thu Jul 11, 2013, 02:50 PM

Jul 2013

Or is it really the case that "Militia", just as used elsewhere in the constitution - without definition or explanation - were well-understood, existing entities - state entities that were around for decades, and just recently codified as mandatory in the AoC?

Truth is militia as used in the constitution had a very specific meaning...the militias of the several states.

The use of "Well-regulated" explains exactly how these militias were to be - only well-organized militias were recognized/intended, and ONLY those deemed "necessary", to secure freedom. Which of course - once again - is why the congress was given the power to REGULATE THEM (AKA "organize&quot

(and so why the 2nd was wanted/needed, because the feds had new powers related to "arming" the militias)

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Who are the Militia? [View all] DWC Jul 2013 OP

Times change WovenGems Jul 2013 #1

Couldn't you find a bigger brush? geckosfeet Jul 2013 #3

agreed. safeinOhio Jul 2013 #4

My, oh my, you're a champ. discntnt_irny_srcsm Jul 2013 #11

What? WovenGems Jul 2013 #14

George Mason: discntnt_irny_srcsm Jul 2013 #16

That answered not WovenGems Jul 2013 #17

Just to be clear... discntnt_irny_srcsm Jul 2013 #18

The militia WovenGems Jul 2013 #21

From US History... discntnt_irny_srcsm Jul 2013 #23

Semantics WovenGems Jul 2013 #25

Agreed in part discntnt_irny_srcsm Jul 2013 #30

It specifically is not. AtheistCrusader Jul 2013 #36

Rather an indistinct meaning these days, no? jmg257 Jul 2013 #28

Not even close. AtheistCrusader Jul 2013 #37

Thank You - "unorganized", which isnt even close to "well-regulated" jmg257 Jul 2013 #41

You don't understand what was meant by 'well regulated'. AtheistCrusader Jul 2013 #42

Of course I do, its right there in the Constitution, the Militia Acts, even the Federalist papers. jmg257 Jul 2013 #45

Partially agree. Except AtheistCrusader Jul 2013 #64

No. The militias are NOT formed in times of need. THEY ARE NECESSARY! jmg257 Jul 2013 #68

I have suggested to our governor on several occasions AtheistCrusader Jul 2013 #70

It might. But then agan...why would a sand bag brigade need arms? Or to be well regulated? nt jmg257 Jul 2013 #72

I think emergency management would be a valid test. AtheistCrusader Jul 2013 #73

Sure. Make the provisions in law. Get the people at least somewhat involved jmg257 Jul 2013 #74

So many falacies in one post. beevul Jul 2013 #43

Bullshit - you might want to read this too jmg257 Jul 2013 #47

Which part of that contradicts anything I said? N/T beevul Jul 2013 #48

"First off, "well regulated" doesn't mean heaped under regulations. " jmg257 Jul 2013 #49

The "well regulated" which I refer to... beevul Jul 2013 #52

YOU get to define the term "well-regulated"? In spite its use in several other period jmg257 Jul 2013 #56

NRA WovenGems Jul 2013 #58

Ooga-booga NRA! AtheistCrusader Jul 2013 #66

Except at this point, none of that matters ExCop-LawStudent Jul 2013 #87

Yes! You are of course right. Which is why I dont get all the yap about "militia". jmg257 Jul 2013 #89

Well even newspapers... discntnt_irny_srcsm Jul 2013 #92

Exactly! ExCop-LawStudent Jul 2013 #94

Not strange when one considers the topics discussed. hansberrym Jul 2013 #147

BTW...amendment 2 "calls for" a "well-regulated militia". They are "necessary". jmg257 Jul 2013 #51

No, it really doesn't. beevul Jul 2013 #53

Sure it does. A well-regulated militia is "necessary". jmg257 Jul 2013 #57

It doesn't mean what you think it means. beevul Jul 2013 #111

I know, I never said anything was forbidden. jmg257 Jul 2013 #115

No, but amendment 2 does. beevul Jul 2013 #123

Ha! Ha! You are still on regulated = equipped? Bullshit yesterday, bullshit today, jmg257 Jul 2013 #125

Yeah you're right ... beevul Jul 2013 #128

Thanks - I know! jmg257 Jul 2013 #129

equipped not synonymous with regulated jimmy the one Jul 2013 #117

he's so vain...... jimmy the one Jul 2013 #119

Goofy - right? I just never heard that one before! jmg257 Jul 2013 #120

the right of the people to be equipped snbi jimmy the one Jul 2013 #149

All thaty ability to copy and paste... beevul Jul 2013 #124

n/a nt jmg257 Jul 2013 #130

irrelevant tapdance jimmy the one Jul 2013 #131

LOL beevul Jul 2013 #132

You might want to read this too, on the importance of preambles in amendments... jmg257 Jul 2013 #61

Regarding the Bill of Rights discntnt_irny_srcsm Jul 2013 #62

Are you stating that there was such a thing as "the unorganized milita" in 1791? jmg257 Jul 2013 #63

Yes discntnt_irny_srcsm Jul 2013 #65

THAT? The Act that says "organization" right in it??? jmg257 Jul 2013 #69

Unorganized Militia discntnt_irny_srcsm Jul 2013 #85

??? The same folks as who? What does this have to do with 1791?? jmg257 Jul 2013 #95

Here's a secret discntnt_irny_srcsm Jul 2013 #97

No, its my turn to say again...the militia referred to in 1792 were REGULATED, organized, jmg257 Jul 2013 #98

Your opinion differs from... discntnt_irny_srcsm Jul 2013 #102

Peace, friend...and cheers! jmg257 Jul 2013 #104

Hmmm...maybe you are missing this? jmg257 Jul 2013 #100

Yes, there was, and they were referred to as 'irregular' troops. AtheistCrusader Jul 2013 #67

Sorry - "troops" are very different from "militia".... jmg257 Jul 2013 #71

"NOW" being a key word...what year was this? nt jmg257 Jul 2013 #27

Yes of course. discntnt_irny_srcsm Jul 2013 #33

Done - in numerous locations, just in this thread alone. jmg257 Jul 2013 #34

The Militia Act of 1903... discntnt_irny_srcsm Jul 2013 #46

True - and mention the creation of the National Guard as the new "well-regulated militia". jmg257 Jul 2013 #50

I'm a dumbass, ignore this post. :) n/t Decoy of Fenris Jul 2013 #55

"the unorganized militia" discntnt_irny_srcsm Jul 2013 #59

Great...thanks for this. jmg257 Jul 2013 #60

Times Change. People don't. DWC Jul 2013 #20

fruitcakes discntnt_irny_srcsm Jul 2013 #22

OF COURSE people change...a huge majority these days don't want to have ANY jmg257 Jul 2013 #29

Human Nature DWC Jul 2013 #35

If you are male, and were ever between the ages of 17-45 ExCop-LawStudent Jul 2013 #79

This little tidbit is in Virginia's declaration of rights: geckosfeet Jul 2013 #2

Yea but WovenGems Jul 2013 #5

So, I'm a 'nutter' now for being a trained, certified FEMA CERT? AtheistCrusader Jul 2013 #39

Clearly a balance is the best option discntnt_irny_srcsm Jul 2013 #7

And yet Hamilton said... jmg257 Jul 2013 #32

However... discntnt_irny_srcsm Jul 2013 #44

No shit. But what's the point? jmg257 Jul 2013 #80

The point discntnt_irny_srcsm Jul 2013 #82

the people = 'free adult white males' jimmy the one Jul 2013 #8

re: "...excluding about 75% of other americans..." discntnt_irny_srcsm Jul 2013 #9

machiavellian jimmy the one Jul 2013 #15

re: "...75% americans did not have any federal right to bear arms in late 1700's." discntnt_irny_srcsm Jul 2013 #86

You wrote "...hidden individual rkba subtlety...?" DWC Jul 2013 #13

"Unlimited power of the sword" is "in the hands of the people"? jmg257 Jul 2013 #26

Thanks for pointing out ExCop-LawStudent Jul 2013 #90

The people have to be able to defend themselves ileus Jul 2013 #6

They were "ourselves"...circa 225 years ago. Now they are the National Guard... jmg257 Jul 2013 #10

Not that it's a big deal but... discntnt_irny_srcsm Jul 2013 #12

coxe spelled it $R$K$B$A$ jimmy the one Jul 2013 #19

Your high volume of verbiage DWC Jul 2013 #24

TLDR ExCop-LawStudent Jul 2013 #91

TLDR and YAWN!! CokeMachine Jul 2013 #105

Modern usage of term "militia" = anti-government, anti-tax extremists and fruitcakes Jessy169 Jul 2013 #31

We must be DWC Jul 2013 #38

You're looking at the dictionary definition Jessy169 Jul 2013 #40

Actually, he's looking at the governments military organization definition. :) n/t Decoy of Fenris Jul 2013 #54

1828 websters, again, on well regulated jimmy the one Jul 2013 #75

mason out of context jimmy the one Jul 2013 #76

See my last post! nt CokeMachine Jul 2013 #107

Changing horses, & bunkum jimmy the one Jul 2013 #77

oh really? hansberrym Jul 2013 #88

you're not feigning ignorance, HB jimmy the one Jul 2013 #101

try reading, it works for those who do. hansberrym Jul 2013 #113

trainband is a trained band jimmy the one Jul 2013 #121

Why is reading so difficult for you? hansberrym Jul 2013 #126

london militia, trainbands jimmy the one Jul 2013 #133

OMG you really cannot comprehend even the simplest of concepts hansberrym Jul 2013 #135

Stop responding to JTO he's having fun and won't answer ceonupe Jul 2013 #151

Yeah, but I'm having fun too, and his inability to answer is much of the fun n/t hansberrym Jul 2013 #154

see you, ceu. jimmy the one Jul 2013 #156

There it is again the ban you because we disagree ceonupe Jul 2013 #157

Curious as to why you quoted Hamilton, when his notions of a select militia jmg257 Jul 2013 #136

Perhaps curiosity will get the best of you, and you will read the thread -or maybe not. n/t hansberrym Jul 2013 #140

I have....several times. Curious as to why you would quote Hamlton? jmg257 Jul 2013 #141

see #142 n/t hansberrym Jul 2013 #143

Thanks..ill check it out...seems to make sense at 1st read. Nt jmg257 Jul 2013 #144

The Constitution is 4,433 words DWC Jul 2013 #99

Yawn -- lots of words -- yawn!! CokeMachine Jul 2013 #106

1788 1788 1788 1788 1788 1788 1788 jimmy the one Jul 2013 #78

You just caught that? Which makes his whole "unlimited power of the sword" thingie pretty silly, jmg257 Jul 2013 #81

what the hell is the 2nd needed for?? hansberrym Jul 2013 #116

Thank you - "POWERS actually GRANTED TO Congress". jmg257 Jul 2013 #118

Which powers were in the hands of Congress? hansberrym Jul 2013 #122

Congress had powers to provide for organizing/regulating/arming the militias jmg257 Jul 2013 #137

and did Congress have the power to disarm the people? n/t hansberrym Jul 2013 #138

My opinion? No they didn't. But i also think the security of the 2nd jmg257 Jul 2013 #139

There you go. So in order to prevent the abuse of the power actually granted hansberrym Jul 2013 #142

Good points on Hamilton...in the numerous times I've read it, jmg257 Jul 2013 #145

cheers! n/t hansberrym Jul 2013 #146

too funny hansberrym Jul 2013 #83

foot mouth egg face jimmy the one Jul 2013 #96

Even funnier hansberrym Jul 2013 #109

rawle's corollary jimmy the one Jul 2013 #84

LOL, and yet what Scalia wrote actually had impact ExCop-LawStudent Jul 2013 #93

first draft of 2ndA & tench coxe jimmy the one Jul 2013 #103

See post 106. nt CokeMachine Jul 2013 #108

Chess Check your facts. When did the first Congress Meet? hansberrym Jul 2013 #110

Yawn. ExCop-LawStudent Jul 2013 #112

student driver jimmy the one Jul 2013 #127

LOL, still not getting the lesson I see ExCop-LawStudent Jul 2013 #134

talking turkeys jimmy the one Jul 2013 #148

A Thanksgiving Tale hansberrym Jul 2013 #150

OK, then let's look at what courts have said about the "militia" ExCop-LawStudent Jul 2013 #152

henry colt jimmy the one Jul 2013 #155

Gee, I guess the fact ExCop-LawStudent Jul 2013 #158

best consult your professors, mr student jimmy the one Jul 2013 #159

Maybe you missed this discntnt_irny_srcsm Jul 2013 #160

XXXXXXX jimmy the one Jul 2013 #161

I'm speechless discntnt_irny_srcsm Jul 2013 #162

Or just read the document hansberrym Jul 2013 #163

LOL, none are as blind as those that will not see ExCop-LawStudent Jul 2013 #164

Quit -- you'll hurt his feelings. CokeMachine Jul 2013 #165

I thought it was funny... ExCop-LawStudent Jul 2013 #166

screwy driver hansberrym Jul 2013 #153

Schooltime for two students jimmy the one Jul 2013 #167

Lesson One for JTO ExCop-LawStudent Jul 2013 #168

changling jimmy the one Jul 2013 #169

Ah, but you do! ExCop-LawStudent Jul 2013 #170

Lesson #1: Texas and Georgia are different states. n/t hansberrym Jul 2013 #172

We should all want the tools to defend our families and country. ileus Jul 2013 #114

I am the militia era veteran Jul 2013 #171

You do understand DWC Jul 2013 #173

Vigilance era veteran Jul 2013 #174