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William Seger

(11,031 posts)
80. In other words, speculation and spin are all you've got
Fri Apr 5, 2013, 07:08 PM
Apr 2013

> Only one bullet was established as having been fired from the Mannlicher-Carcano and that was CE399, the so-called "magic bullet".

The Warren Commission and the HSCA were acting in good faith on the neutron activation analysis that said the bullet fragments found in the limo (presumably from the fatal shot) were from the same batch as the "magic" bullet and thus were probably fired from the same gun. A recent study found that that conclusion is not as statistically reliable as the WC and HSCA assumed it was, but contrary to popular opinion among conspiracists, that study did not find any reason to believe that the shot was from a second shooter; it simply said the neutron activation analysis couldn't conclusively rule out that possibility. Once again, you have come up short in actual evidence and attempt to substitute unsubstantiated speculation.

> From all appearances it looks as if it had been fired into a bucket of water, and the government's top ballistics expert told them exactly that (the Warren Commission did not ask him to testify and instead found a more compliant witness). CE399 is alleged to have made seven wounds, shattered a rib, and smashed into a wrist bone which is one of the densest in the human body.

Speculate and spin away, but the single-bullet theory remains the best explanation of the facts. Sorry, but anyone who claims that the bullet could have been flattened on its side from being fired into a bucket of water is an unconvincing "expert." That flattened side is better explained by the theory that it was tumbling after passing through JFK -- a theory that is further substantiated by the elongated wounds in Connally's back and chest, which conspiracists apparently prefer to ignore since it supports the SBT. The irony is that conspiracists denigrate the SBT as the "magic" bullet theory, and then offer all sorts of alternative explanations that would involve magic disappearing bullets, magic curving bullet paths, magic disappearing shooters, and/or psychic conspirators who knew that Connally would end up with a shallow entrance wound with no bullet in it.

> No recreation of the shooting has ever been able to even come close to producing the lack of damage seen on CE399. Without exception, the bullets have been mangled after striking bone or bone facsimile.

In the first place, that claim simple isn't true -- there have been experiments that showed similar results.



The fact that CE-399 wasn't duplicated in the studies you are referring to is unremarkable, considering that those recreations also didn't come close to actually recreating the SBT path through JFK's neck first, which would have slowed the bullet by about half and also set it tumbling before entering Connally. Once again, instead of actual evidence, you substitute speculation about how the bullet "ought" to have looked, and that speculation doesn't even take into account all of the factors involved.

> You continue to present an interpretation of the fatal shot based on an appeal to higher knowledge ("real physics&quot , and yet curtly dismissed the findings of a woman with decades of experience in wound ballistics.

And that would be because I can't find any indication whatsoever that she knows what she's talking about, which makes it difficult to be impressed by her credentials. Specifically, her offering of videos of gelatin bulging slightly in the direction a bullet came from tells me that she doesn't seem to even be aware of the 2.5" forward head-snap under discussion, much less does she have any physics-based explanation for it. On the other hand, I have repeatedly shown you what I found in my own examination of the film and I have given you simple and irrefutable reasoning for what the film actually shows about the immediate forward head-snap and the later back-and-to-the-left movement. Furthermore, I have provide you with a link to an extremely detailed study done by an actual physicist who noticed the same thing and analyzed it using real physics. You are the one in denial, with nothing to cling to but your classic "appeal to authority" fallacy.

> Dr Perry did not come to some new understanding of the throat wound through some collegial discussions with Dr Humes - he told others at the hospital that he got no sleep on the Friday night because he was constantly getting phone calls from Washington pressuring him to change his opinion. Later, a Secret Service agent named Moore was assigned to Dallas to strong-arm Perry into changing his opinion ahead of appearing before the Warren Commission (Moore was successful). The Humes story of a gradual understanding of the throat wound is a lie - as the Bethesda doctors had been told before the autopsy began that the Parklands doctors had identified an entrance wound in the throat. The Bethesda autopsy doctors never tracked the wound from back to front - as is standard protocol and in fact a legal requirement - and they were in fact expressly ordered not to do so. Along with the planting of CE399, that fact is primary proof of both a conspiracy and cover-up.

Yes, I'm aware of how conspiracists interpret what happened when they view it through their conspiracy-colored bias, but the subject at hand is, what can you actually prove that contradicts the Warren Commission findings? Once again, the answer is that speculation and spin are all you really have.

Thanks for posting, I watched the first 9 videos from the links in your earlier posts. eomer Feb 2013 #1
I sort of see it, too... MrMickeysMom Feb 2013 #4
Introduction: Woman heard shot from grassy knoll William Seger Feb 2013 #2
Snark? MrMickeysMom Feb 2013 #3
"That's all I get from you is snark?" William Seger Feb 2013 #5
No, I read it... MrMickeysMom Feb 2013 #6
Uh-huh, "answers" and "honest discussion" and "dialog" William Seger Feb 2013 #11
Episode Two: John Armstrong speculates there were "two Oswalds" William Seger Feb 2013 #12
Episode Three: Bill Simpich speculates that Oswald was part of "false defector" program William Seger Feb 2013 #13
Episode Four: Joan Mellen speculates that Oswald was a CIA/FBI plant William Seger Feb 2013 #15
Episode Five: John Armstrong again, speculating about "two Oswalds" again William Seger Feb 2013 #16
No response from the OP yet? zappaman Mar 2013 #18
On posting the videos as they come out each week, and on your being blocked for it... eomer Feb 2013 #7
Appreciated, eomer... MrMickeysMom Feb 2013 #8
I followed the discussion and I thank you for having, by far, the more reasonable approach. NYC_SKP Feb 2013 #14
Thanks for posting and sorry for any grief you got from others. NYC_SKP Feb 2013 #9
Twas nothing... MrMickeysMom Feb 2013 #10
Will the OP be answering Seger's criticisms of the videos any time soon? zappaman Mar 2013 #17
It would appear that the poll speaks for who's more interested in the videos... MrMickeysMom Mar 2013 #19
So the answer is NO zappaman Mar 2013 #20
The answer is... MrMickeysMom Mar 2013 #21
!!! zappaman Mar 2013 #22
... MrMickeysMom Mar 2013 #23
I'm sorry you can't speak for yourself. zappaman Mar 2013 #24
They sure are... MrMickeysMom Mar 2013 #25
Seger's criticisms arguille Mar 2013 #26
I a interested in the way you addressed "c" MrMickeysMom Mar 2013 #27
One at a time: a) eyewitness reports of shot(s) from grassy knoll area William Seger Mar 2013 #28
reply to #28 arguille Mar 2013 #33
"Sorry. That does not add up." William Seger Mar 2013 #38
reply to #38 arguille Mar 2013 #43
Neither you nor Fiester have refuted what I'm saying about Zapruder William Seger Mar 2013 #46
BTW, here's a "painted over" Zapruder frame William Seger Mar 2013 #51
reply to #51 arguille Mar 2013 #52
Baloney. I DID respond to your three issues. William Seger Mar 2013 #58
reply to #58 arguille Mar 2013 #60
Timeout William Seger Mar 2013 #64
A vacation is what you needed at this point, Billy MrMickeysMom Mar 2013 #66
I'm back William Seger Apr 2013 #73
reply to #73 arguille Apr 2013 #74
I keep asking for one GOOD reason William Seger Apr 2013 #79
reply to #79 arguille Apr 2013 #82
Baloney William Seger Apr 2013 #85
reply to #85 arguille Apr 2013 #92
Sliced thin and piled high, it's still baloney William Seger Apr 2013 #93
reply to #93 arguille Apr 2013 #94
On and on William Seger Apr 2013 #95
reply to #95 arguille Apr 2013 #97
Stairway to delusion William Seger Apr 2013 #99
reply to #99 arguille Apr 2013 #100
Oh, I don't really mind arguing with a brick wall William Seger Apr 2013 #108
reply to #108 arguille Apr 2013 #110
Credibility issue William Seger Apr 2013 #115
reply to #115 arguille Apr 2013 #117
Two words: Bull. Shit. William Seger Apr 2013 #118
reply to #118 arguille Apr 2013 #119
But I DID read it, "arguille" William Seger Apr 2013 #121
reply to #121 arguille Apr 2013 #124
If you're just going to keep repeating yourself William Seger Apr 2013 #127
reply to #127 arguille Apr 2013 #129
"What's that about likely or unlikely?" William Seger Apr 2013 #133
reply to #133 arguille Apr 2013 #135
By the way, this... William Seger Apr 2013 #131
reply to #131 arguille Apr 2013 #136
Well, that's the problem MrMickeysMom Apr 2013 #84
Clicking on your posts, hoping that maybe this time there will be something William Seger Apr 2013 #86
Point by point William Seger Apr 2013 #69
reply to post #69 arguille Apr 2013 #76
In other words, speculation and spin are all you've got William Seger Apr 2013 #80
"...but the single-bullet theory remains the best explanation of the facts." MrMickeysMom Apr 2013 #87
I'm sure arguille appreciates the cheerleading, but... William Seger Apr 2013 #88
You wish a fight over what you should wish to seek... MrMickeysMom Apr 2013 #89
I've been begging for any credible FACTS that refute the WC conclusions William Seger Apr 2013 #90
Reply to #80 arguille Apr 2013 #91
No offense, of course, but so what? William Seger Apr 2013 #96
reply to #96 arguille Apr 2013 #98
Good grief William Seger Apr 2013 #112
reply to #112 arguille Apr 2013 #113
More baloney? No thanks William Seger Apr 2013 #114
reply to #114 arguille Apr 2013 #116
Here we go 'round the mulberry bush William Seger Apr 2013 #122
reply to #122 arguille Apr 2013 #130
Thanks for the video William Seger Apr 2013 #132
reply to #132 arguille Apr 2013 #137
Pointless repetition William Seger Apr 2013 #140
reply to #140 arguille Apr 2013 #142
"What fact?" William Seger Apr 2013 #144
reply to #144 arguille Apr 2013 #147
Yeaaaaaah, THAT'S the ticket William Seger Apr 2013 #148
reply to #148 arguille Apr 2013 #149
But it IS bullshit, isn't it William Seger Apr 2013 #151
reply to #151 arguille Apr 2013 #153
LMAO William Seger Apr 2013 #156
reply to #156 arguille Apr 2013 #158
In other words, you have absolutely no sound evidence or logical reason William Seger Apr 2013 #160
reply to #160 arguille Apr 2013 #161
'Round the barn again William Seger Apr 2013 #162
reply to #162 arguille Apr 2013 #165
How about this: William Seger Apr 2013 #167
b) Fletcher Prouty worked at the Pentagon William Seger Mar 2013 #29
reply to #29 arguille Mar 2013 #34
And again, my point was... William Seger Mar 2013 #40
reply to #40 arguille Mar 2013 #44
Yes, they lie a lot William Seger Mar 2013 #48
reply to #48 arguille Mar 2013 #53
Well, if you think you can prove THAT, then... William Seger Mar 2013 #59
reply to #59 arguille Mar 2013 #61
Which just goes to show... William Seger Apr 2013 #70
reply to #70 arguille Apr 2013 #77
c) Seger dismisses information on Oswald's history and background as unsubstantial William Seger Mar 2013 #30
reply to #30 arguille Mar 2013 #35
"But there was a false defector program." William Seger Mar 2013 #39
reply to #39 arguille Mar 2013 #45
"illegal operations can be understood as including false defectors" William Seger Mar 2013 #50
reply to #50 arguille Mar 2013 #54
Baloney. Here's a link to the minutes of that meeting William Seger Mar 2013 #57
reply to #57 arguille Mar 2013 #62
"*IF* that were true and it ever came out and could be established" William Seger Apr 2013 #71
reply to #71 arguille Apr 2013 #75
Actually, what I'm claiming is... William Seger Apr 2013 #83
also to #71 arguille Apr 2013 #78
The minutes of the first Commission meeting, and I provided the link (n/t) William Seger Apr 2013 #81
d) Mexico City William Seger Mar 2013 #31
reply to #31 arguille Mar 2013 #36
"the provable fact that Oswald was framed" William Seger Mar 2013 #41
e) spooky one-note music. William Seger Mar 2013 #32
reply to #32 arguille Mar 2013 #37
Sez you William Seger Mar 2013 #42
reply to #42 arguille Mar 2013 #47
But I'm giving you every opportunity to change my mind William Seger Mar 2013 #49
reply to #49 arguille Mar 2013 #55
Baloney. It's not a "rhetorical device" to demand FACT-based DEDUCTIVE reasoning William Seger Mar 2013 #56
reply to #56 arguille Mar 2013 #63
Well now... MrMickeysMom Mar 2013 #68
Prove any one of them, then William Seger Apr 2013 #72
Made it to 1:38 in first video Riftaxe Mar 2013 #65
Wow!.... MrMickeysMom Mar 2013 #67
In the intro video, they say his head moved back when he was shot, ZombieHorde Apr 2013 #101
Shhhhh! zappaman Apr 2013 #102
I have only watched the first first video and half of the second, so they might address that point. ZombieHorde Apr 2013 #103
You should check this out as well zappaman Apr 2013 #104
That does look like his head moved forward to me. ZombieHorde Apr 2013 #105
reply to ZombieHorde arguille Apr 2013 #106
"It remains a point of contention five decades later." zappaman Apr 2013 #107
It does remain a point of contention... MrMickeysMom Apr 2013 #109
Well, I suppose the earth being round remains a point of contention since some believe it is flat... zappaman Apr 2013 #111
head movement and blood spatter arguille Apr 2013 #120
In other words, Fiester has NO CLUE the 2.5" forward head-snap even happened William Seger Apr 2013 #123
reply to #123 arguille Apr 2013 #125
"move minutely into the force" is NOT a 2.5" head-snap William Seger Apr 2013 #126
reply to #126 arguille Apr 2013 #128
"swell or move minutely into the force" is NOT a 2.5" forward head-snap William Seger Apr 2013 #134
reply to #134 arguille Apr 2013 #138
Yep, that's exactly the same thing Fiester was talking about William Seger Apr 2013 #139
reply to #139 arguille Apr 2013 #141
What's refuted is your bizarre interpretation of "contemporary ballistic science" William Seger Apr 2013 #143
reply to #143 arguille Apr 2013 #150
You just keep digging your hole deeper and deeper William Seger Apr 2013 #152
Reply to #152 arguille Apr 2013 #154
I really don't understand why you keep responding if that's the best you can do William Seger Apr 2013 #155
reply to #155 arguille Apr 2013 #157
... William Seger Apr 2013 #159
"Ballistics & Forensic Experts on the JFK Head Shot" William Seger Apr 2013 #163
reply to #163 arguille Apr 2013 #164
No, this is the ticket: William Seger Apr 2013 #166
BTW, Re: Fiester as an "expert" William Seger Apr 2013 #168
"Seger refutes contemporary ballistic science" with another video William Seger Apr 2013 #146
And by the way.... William Seger Apr 2013 #145
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