Israel/Palestine

Scootaloo

(25,699 posts)

319. The thought experiment is not a good mirror of reality, Shira

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 06:25 AM

Dec 2012

Which is the point I've been making since you brought it up.

1) Israel is not using rifles. Israel is using bombs.

2) The reality is that there are more options than you present. That you have no interest in options that do not as a matter of course kill innocents, does not mean those options do not exist.

3) Even if your scenario were true to reality, there's an issue of repetition. if I kill five kids to stop this bad guy, then I kill seven kids there, and then ten over here, two over there... Again and again and again, i keep killing all these innocents to stop the bad guy. Well, I'm not actually stopping the bad guy, it doesn't look like. In fact it comes to a point where I'm a bigger danger to innocent life than they are.

4) With that in mind, your numbers are very far from reality. To reflect the actual reality of the conflict, I would have to be killing - guaranteed - seven innocent people to save one. That's the ratio of civilian deaths, seven to one. That's over the entire conflict since the start of the Intifada in 2000. If we trim it down to just the fatalities in Gazan rocket attacks and the responses against Gaza, then I'm looking at killing sixty seven innocents to protect one.

Now. Would you murder - not risk, would you outright kill sixty innocent people to save one person? Would you kill seven? Would you willingly kill one innocent person to save another?

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Yes, anti-Zionism is anti-Semitism [View all] shira Sep 2012 OP

Anti-Zionism and Anti-Semitism: Robert Wistrich shira Sep 2012 #1

Yes, but anti-Netanyahu is not the same as anti-Semitism. INMO Iran deal is good for Israel meir34 Aug 2015 #440

Message auto-removed Name removed Feb 2016 #447

This message was self-deleted by its author Mosby May 2019 #480

So, does this mean... Troggle Sep 2012 #2

No oberliner Sep 2012 #4

Of course I know that for people afflicted with decency and common sense criticism is possible... Troggle Sep 2012 #5

The author wrote about anti-zionist ideology, not criticism of Israel being antisemitic. shira Sep 2012 #6

Not all forms of anti-Zionism are the same. Ken Burch Sep 2012 #26

Name an anti-zionist movement today that doesn't tolerate.... shira Sep 2012 #29

I'd say that anti-zionists among almost all those that exist in North America, the UK and Europe Ken Burch Sep 2012 #32

If anti-zionists are staunch opponents of antisemitism.... shira Sep 2012 #33

Just a quick note. Bradlad Sep 2012 #49

This message was self-deleted by its author azurnoir Dec 2012 #166

yep same question gets asked about US Muslims all the time 'cause we all know azurnoir Sep 2012 #52

Just pointing out anti-Zionists aren't that interested.... shira Sep 2012 #58

I could repeat post #52 it still applies n/t azurnoir Sep 2012 #67

If it's about #52, at least there plenty of Muslims to denounce... shira Sep 2012 #68

so you are now saying that Jews are a race? well okay if you believe that n/t azurnoir Sep 2012 #70

Oh, I get it. Anti-racist activism doesn't apply to Jews... shira Sep 2012 #72

Israel's more progressive than the USA, and by a wide margin. JLII Dec 2012 #141

Yeah. Gay rights, environment, healthcare, better trade unions... shira Dec 2012 #143

Thanks JLII Dec 2012 #148

Also, Israel cares and provides for its children, poor and elderly far better than does the US. JDPriestly Dec 2012 #203

Group cuts Holocaust survivors' aid by 20% also claims that 1 in 4 Israelis in poverty azurnoir Dec 2012 #292

I spoke to someone who just returned from a visit in Israel JDPriestly Dec 2012 #300

Who made you Wolf Blitzer? Scootaloo Dec 2012 #312

easily both could be true azurnoir Dec 2012 #315

don't forget those segregated buses, dear Shira! cali May 2013 #360

Are you confused? There are no segregated buses in Israel, dear. shira May 2013 #362

Yup. aquart Sep 2012 #3

God, Torah and Israel are one. aranthus Sep 2012 #7

Huh.... No. Shaktimaan Sep 2012 #8

Great post. n/t shira Sep 2012 #11

I'd say you both have good points but . Bradlad Sep 2012 #12

Here is where we disagree. aranthus Sep 2012 #13

Uh, no...Jewish athiests and agnostics don't believe that. Ken Burch Sep 2012 #27

Of course they do. aranthus Sep 2012 #41

Logically, people who don't believe in God are not going to believe Ken Burch Sep 2012 #42

Where did you study logic? Go back there and ask for your money back. doxyluv13 Oct 2012 #107

It's possible, but in practice anti-zionists tend to hate.... shira Oct 2012 #109

Before you criticize, first understand what you are talking about. aranthus Oct 2012 #117

Most religious Jews opposed Zionism prior to 1948... shaayecanaan Sep 2012 #9

Those Jews didn't routinely utilize old, bigoted tropes like anti-zios today... shira Sep 2012 #10

thanks for linking to that post where you show that Palestinians including children azurnoir Sep 2012 #14

Yes, of course. There's zero antisemitism in those videos... shira Sep 2012 #18

Your claim was that "anti-Zionism is anti-Semitism" shaayecanaan Sep 2012 #16

It is today, without question. n/t shira Sep 2012 #17

What about last Tuesday? Was it anti-semitic then? (nt) shaayecanaan Sep 2012 #19

Brilliant. But let's face it.... shira Sep 2012 #20

I'm not sure anyone here would have heard of Lauren Booth... shaayecanaan Sep 2012 #21

I only know about Lauren Booth because she's the sister-in-law of Tony Blair. LeftishBrit Sep 2012 #24

LB, what do you know of PSC's Tony Greenstein.... shira Sep 2012 #73

Don't know a lot about him; think he tends to be more idealistic than realistic in most of his views LeftishBrit Sep 2012 #74

I just googled him. Tony Greenstein co-founded the PSC... shira Sep 2012 #77

Poor old Gilad Atzmon shaayecanaan Sep 2012 #75

He has quite the fan club. Ever heard of these guys.... shira Sep 2012 #76

bar one or two, i havent heard of any of them nt shaayecanaan Oct 2012 #81

I would hardly call these the 'leaders' of any movement LeftishBrit Sep 2012 #23

They're well respected within the movement. I could've mentioned... shira Sep 2012 #30

Greta Berlin is a leader for the Free Gaza Movement.... shira Oct 2012 #101

Excellent post, Shaayecanaan. Fantastic Anarchist Nov 2012 #128

Anti-Zionism can be antisemitism but need not be LeftishBrit Sep 2012 #15

Well-put. Ken Burch Sep 2012 #22

You say some people are against all forms of nationalism.... shira Sep 2012 #31

anti-Zionism can be anti-Semitism...but it doesn't have to be. Ken Burch Sep 2012 #25

In theory it doesn't have to be. In practice it is. n/t shira Oct 2012 #80

In practice it isn't necessarily either. And it serves no purpose to demonize non-Zionists. Ken Burch Oct 2012 #82

The vast majority of anti-zionists support anti-semitic organizations.... shira Oct 2012 #83

Resisting Israeli authority in the West Bank is NOT "hating Jews" Ken Burch Oct 2012 #84

When PeaceNow works for Palestinian Rights, THAT is not hating Jews... shira Oct 2012 #85

As if you EVER supported Peace Now. Ken Burch Oct 2012 #86

Now you're deflecting, but at least I know that you now realize... shira Oct 2012 #88

I NEVER said that anti-zionists(most of who are NOT "Jew-haters")were the ONLY ones Ken Burch Oct 2012 #90

Most are not jew-haters. Not the ISM, FGM, PSC, BDS.... shira Oct 2012 #93

The subject is that you accused me of saying something I NEVER said. Ken Burch Oct 2012 #96

That's how I understood your posts about anti-zionists, Ken shira Oct 2012 #102

I accept the apology-still, I am serious about challenging the claim that antizionist=antisemite. Ken Burch Oct 2012 #103

Greta Berlin not only lied in her apology, she posted a Nazi documentary film shira Oct 2012 #104

I denounce Greta Berlin...never heard of her before this. Ken Burch Oct 2012 #108

She's only the co-founder of Free Gaza, a movement supported.... shira Oct 2012 #110

All we know is that the person who wrote the OP SAID they were silent. Ken Burch Oct 2012 #113

Ali Abunimah of EI tweeted about the silence... shira Oct 2012 #114

I have a serious question here. Israel is being referred to as a "Jewish state." rateyes Sep 2012 #28

You're wrong on both counts. shira Sep 2012 #34

So you are saying that my impression of Israel being a secular democracy rateyes Sep 2012 #37

Think of it as the homeland for the Jews rather than a Jewish homeland... shira Sep 2012 #44

another answer azurnoir Sep 2012 #35

Yeah, he doesn't really count. So Israel is still an ethnic supremacy. shira Sep 2012 #36

Get back to me when an Arab or Druze PM or President is elected we'll talk then okay? azurnoir Sep 2012 #39

No, you tried justifying the argument that Israel is either... shira Sep 2012 #45

not really but if that's what you want to think be my guest azurnoir Sep 2012 #46

Ah, but, looking at the demographics, rateyes Sep 2012 #38

IMO the "Arab demographic threat" is over played it was a big meme a few years back but azurnoir Sep 2012 #40

Portions of the Israeli population are giving a good account of themselves reproductively too. bemildred Sep 2012 #50

True enough azurnoir Sep 2012 #51

Jewish State doxyluv13 Oct 2012 #106

Gentleman's agreement? And you know this...how? shira Oct 2012 #111

So anti-zionism is equivalent to antisemitism? bemildred Sep 2012 #43

At the very, very least it's implicitly bigoted to oppose equal rights.... shira Sep 2012 #47

So I got "anti-zionism is bigoted", then. bemildred Sep 2012 #48

well of course because we all know that without Zionism azurnoir Sep 2012 #53

Nope King_David Sep 2012 #54

ya like I said azurnoir Sep 2012 #55

Yes there were in the past, King_David Sep 2012 #56

so were these Canadian signs enforced? written into law ? azurnoir Sep 2012 #57

Az, you'd have to agree that Jews needed an Israel.... shira Sep 2012 #59

No I would say that the countries that would not allow entry azurnoir Sep 2012 #61

Pathetic post.... shira Sep 2012 #64

You are quite free to 'understand' whatever you wish too however I did not mention Israel azurnoir Sep 2012 #65

Irrelevant. nt King_David Sep 2012 #69

well it was relevant enough for you to comment n/t azurnoir Sep 2012 #71

i was interested enough to check on the "no jews, no dogs" sign shaayecanaan Oct 2012 #87

No Dogs and Jews Allowed King_David Oct 2012 #89

once again and your link does not address this at all how were those signs enforced? azurnoir Oct 2012 #91

Oh I think it addresses the issue King_David Oct 2012 #97

Good thing people can read huh? n/t azurnoir Oct 2012 #98

still no record of the actual sign... shaayecanaan Oct 2012 #100

Yeah, especially in the US and Canada..... shira Oct 2012 #92

so in your opinion Jews in the US had no political rights because they did not push the US azurnoir Oct 2012 #94

No, during WW2 Jews in North America feared doing anything.... shira Oct 2012 #95

for the luv what exactly were Jews in the US supposed to do prior or during WW2? azurnoir Oct 2012 #99

When I was a child (in the mid 1950's) we used to COLGATE4 Dec 2012 #260

signs in Fl said no Jews or dogs but then we can assume Blacks and Hispanics were welcome right? azurnoir Dec 2012 #261

No, blacks and Hispanics were certainly COLGATE4 Dec 2012 #290

so your saying that Jews did not know their place or what? azurnoir Dec 2012 #293

I'm not sure what your point is COLGATE4 Dec 2012 #294

my point is that those signs are something of an 'urban legend' azurnoir Dec 2012 #298

You are either stunningly uninformed or COLGATE4 Dec 2012 #304

neither but I've been around this track before and on this thread too azurnoir Dec 2012 #305

Don't flatter yourself COLGATE4 Dec 2012 #306

well okay but ya know azurnoir Dec 2012 #309

You pointed to a thread on DU King_David Dec 2012 #307

It was your claims that were debunked on this thread azurnoir Dec 2012 #308

This message was self-deleted by its author King_David Dec 2012 #310

Did the Jews of the SS Struma have equal rights in 1942? n/t shira Sep 2012 #60

perhaps you need to reread the comment or was this simply an oppurtunity azurnoir Sep 2012 #62

You should consider Zionism as equal rights for Jews collectively shira Sep 2012 #63

Zionism began began more than a generation prior to Israel azurnoir Sep 2012 #66

I don't hate Israel, I just think we put in the wrong place. MercutioATC Sep 2012 #78

Virtually every one of your statements is factually false. aranthus Dec 2012 #225

Message auto-removed Name removed May 2013 #363

The Free Gaza Movement Shows Its Anti-Semitic Face shira Oct 2012 #79

No antisemitism in this piece critical of Israel doxyluv13 Oct 2012 #105

Now that's just an idiotic article that begs to be ridiculed.... shira Oct 2012 #112

Dear Rabid Hater, BTW you didn't refute my point. doxyluv13 Oct 2012 #115

What point? That a rabid hater who believes in a nefarious Jewish Lobby... shira Oct 2012 #116

While I disagree with the OP (see post 15), you can't honestly regard antiwar.com and Giraldi as LeftishBrit Oct 2012 #119

Lots of DU'ers link to the extreme Rightwing antiwar.com shira Dec 2012 #137

That, in itself, is a RW talking point. You clearly have no comprehension of what you write. leveymg Dec 2012 #160

Here's how they describe themselves.... shira Dec 2012 #161

That's not extreme RW - it reads like the Henry Wallace Progressive Party platform from '48: leveymg Dec 2012 #162

They're xenophobic isolationists closer to Ron Paul, Pat Buchanon, & David Duke shira Dec 2012 #167

The only connection is that you put antiwar.com and David Duke into the same sentence. leveymg Dec 2012 #168

Duke makes the same arguments. As does Pat Buchanon.... shira Dec 2012 #170

If you want to be taken seriously, learn to spell names. leveymg Dec 2012 #172

Raimondo and Buchanan agree on few things. Yeah, right.... shira Dec 2012 #173

Again, if you want to be taken seriously, address the issue rather than another weak attempt at leveymg Dec 2012 #175

Though I disagree with the OP, Shira is right about antiwar.com LeftishBrit Dec 2012 #188

You cherry-picked the AW Mission Statement. Here's what you left out: leveymg Dec 2012 #189

Sorry, but right-libertarian, anti-social-safety net, anti-welfare views are so utterly evil that we LeftishBrit Dec 2012 #190

You are SO off-base. Randoph Bourne was a progressive, a cultural radical, and a Socialist. leveymg Dec 2012 #192

But they also endorse Garret Garrett LeftishBrit Dec 2012 #193

I agree with you. delrem Dec 2012 #195

I see your point. But, your complaint reminds me most strongly of this by John Stuart Mill: leveymg Dec 2012 #199

So tell me, do you take racists seriously.... shira Dec 2012 #200

If one reads Antiwar.com, and supports their right to publish, that is not "selling (Buchanan)." leveymg Dec 2012 #207

So you'd advocate the same way for Stormfront as you do antiwar.com? n/t shira Dec 2012 #208

There would be little in Stormfront that I would find interesting or commendable. leveymg Dec 2012 #211

You're on a site that censors StormFront. shira Dec 2012 #212

It's bad enough that we have fanatical zionists and anti-z's. The Nazis aren't missed here. leveymg Dec 2012 #213

Would you by the same token... LeftishBrit Dec 2012 #217

To paraphrase Berkeley, "if the idea is never allowed to be cited or linked, was it ever expressed?" leveymg Dec 2012 #241

It is not the dilemma that 'Shira and I' are creating LeftishBrit Dec 2012 #245

so esentially what your seem to be saying here is that who says something is more important azurnoir Dec 2012 #251

Here's what I said about this in an earlier post LeftishBrit Dec 2012 #262

KEN O’KEEFE EMBRACES WHITE SUPREMACIST DAVID DUKE shira Oct 2012 #118

Thanks shira Tony Greenstein promotes Ali Abunumah's statement you know the one you claim azurnoir Oct 2012 #120

So tell me. If Greenstein is exposed as an anti-Semite... shira Oct 2012 #121

hey if you wish to 'expose' your own source on antisemitism as an antisemite azurnoir Oct 2012 #122

Ali Abunimah: Israelis whining about rockets shira Oct 2012 #123

Ali Abunimah says Hamas rockets are legitimate resistance shira Dec 2014 #397

Respect activist: was Hitler the bad guy? shira Oct 2012 #124

Ali Abunimah claims Israeli made food is racist shira Nov 2012 #125

Israeli made food is racist and do not forget 'Apartheid' too .... nt King_David Nov 2012 #131

Nazi apartheid food. n/t shira Nov 2012 #134

He's thinking of starting a food blog oberliner Nov 2012 #132

Ben White dreams that, by the “bloodshed and sweat of martyrs”, Palestine will be free! shira Nov 2012 #126

Yawn ... Fantastic Anarchist Nov 2012 #127

Bigotry and hatred isn't anything to yawn about on a liberal board. shira Nov 2012 #129

That screed is definitely something to yawn about. Fantastic Anarchist Nov 2012 #130

It's hard to argue the reality.... shira Nov 2012 #133

Liars @ Pal. Solidarity linking to insanely antisemitic PRESS-TV article shira Dec 2012 #135

Ali Abunimah running interference for Hamas incitement vs. Jews shira Dec 2012 #136

Why should the article condemn Meshal for something he did not say? nt delrem Dec 2012 #138

What do you think he means by Zionists here? Hint , it is not Zionist christians in the USA . King_David Dec 2012 #139

Let me guess: you didn't read the article? delrem Dec 2012 #140

"You steal land"? Who is "you"? David isn't Israeli. shira Dec 2012 #142

David is arguing the Zionist Israeli case delrem Dec 2012 #145

David is arguing Meshaal is a racist, bigoted POS.... shira Dec 2012 #196

Meshaal may be a racist, bigoted POS, but *he didn't say what it is claimed he said*! delrem Dec 2012 #197

That's simply mendacious! delrem Dec 2012 #144

Ha Ha... its ALWAYS a 'mistranslation' King_David Dec 2012 #146

You are already mendacious. delrem Dec 2012 #147

Ali Hasan Abunimah is a Palestinian American journalist King_David Dec 2012 #149

Who is fluent in Arabic. delrem Dec 2012 #150

Excuse for what ? Everything I posted is 100% accurate . nt King_David Dec 2012 #151

100% mendacious. nt delrem Dec 2012 #152

No you are using the wrong word, King_David Dec 2012 #153

It is the correct word. delrem Dec 2012 #155

. King_David Dec 2012 #156

This message was self-deleted by its author AldoLeopold Dec 2012 #154

This message was self-deleted by its author ann--- Dec 2012 #157

'Zionists believe the bible gives them the land they stole from the Palestinians' King_David Dec 2012 #163

The Israeli religious right believes such things; not all Zionists. LeftishBrit Dec 2012 #264

this was posted before riverwalker Dec 2012 #158

No it just somehow keeps getting kicked back up again and again azurnoir Dec 2012 #164

It's false on the face of it. delrem Dec 2012 #165

My post had nothing to do with the veracity of the OP itself azurnoir Dec 2012 #169

Ah, I see! delrem Dec 2012 #181

Amazing that you comfortable calling a fellow DU member an idiot , King_David Dec 2012 #171

No, it's an accurate description. While anti-zionism need not be anti-semitic..... shira Dec 2012 #174

Location, locatoin, location. ZombieHorde Dec 2012 #159

What are you trying to accomplish, Shira? Harry_Scrote Dec 2012 #176

The same thing as always DonCoquixote Dec 2012 #178

:( Harry_Scrote Dec 2012 #185

The motive is to expose anti-zionists for being ugly anti-semites. shira Dec 2012 #194

shira: anti-zionists = anti-semites delrem Dec 2012 #198

Let's start with the FreeGaza movement.... shira Dec 2012 #201

one heinous tweet delrem Dec 2012 #205

There's a lot more in that thread than 1 tweet. shira Dec 2012 #206

"Gilad Atzmon, Alison Weir, and other VERY nasty antisemites" delrem Dec 2012 #214

Are you familiar with Atzmon and Weir.... shira Dec 2012 #219

This is a ridiculous statement - did you even read the article? oberliner Dec 2012 #187

"ONLY ideology"? How many others have been tried? & If it "saves" why is there so much threat? patrice Dec 2012 #177

No. elleng Dec 2012 #179

Post removed Post removed Dec 2012 #180

What a disgusting post. King_David Dec 2012 #182

ah so you got that nasty post hidden can we please see the jury results I would really like to know azurnoir Dec 2012 #183

Doesn't say anything more than a jury voted 5-1 to hide it King_David Dec 2012 #184

It means that someone before you alerted. Ms. Toad Dec 2012 #186

I guess it was simultaneous King_David Dec 2012 #191

You just alerted while the first jury was out. n/t Ms. Toad Dec 2012 #215

A whole religion has been hijacked for a political project. Democratopia Dec 2012 #202

So in 1948 it made sense. After so many years.... shira Dec 2012 #209

I don't agree with that at all, and not what I am saying. Democratopia Dec 2012 #221

Many Jews ? i say Bullshit ! King_David Dec 2012 #216

You seem to disrespect those that do not agree with you. Democratopia Dec 2012 #222

Naturei Karta ? King_David Dec 2012 #224

Try this group of 77 North American Rabbis -Are they all "Holocaust denial homophobic nut jobs" too? Democratopia Dec 2012 #227

LOL King_David Dec 2012 #230

Are you a TTJ or Neturei Karta? aranthus Dec 2012 #226

I don't support these groups - just showing not all Jews are Zionists. Democratopia Dec 2012 #229

There is about 200 of them nt King_David Dec 2012 #231

'I don't support these groups' King_David Dec 2012 #232

Why do you call it propoganda? I don't know how many anti-Zionist there are. However, Democratopia Dec 2012 #236

"Zionism is a problem - not a Jewish state being the problem" King_David Dec 2012 #242

As I have said in another post, Zionism was a movement to create a Jewish state. Democratopia Dec 2012 #247

I think your having difficulty grasping the Zionist concept, King_David Dec 2012 #284

My wife doesn't agree with me, but we have Jewish friends who do. Democratopia Dec 2012 #285

That is strange indeed...theres not that many Republican Jews... King_David Dec 2012 #291

Anti-palestinians have watered "antisemitism" into meaninglessness - as camouflage Scootaloo Dec 2012 #204

So all the examples like FreeGaza, Ali Abunimah, BDS, the ISM & PSC.... shira Dec 2012 #210

For the most part I find your assertions baseless Scootaloo Dec 2012 #218

Of course you do. And no specifics, of course..... shira Dec 2012 #220

Shira is wrong about these organizations because Shira provides no evidence Scootaloo Dec 2012 #235

I've provided plenty of evidence.... shira Dec 2012 #240

We've already confirmed Greta Berlin Scootaloo Dec 2012 #243

And FreeGaza's current board all support her. In fact, Greta Berlin remains on the board..... shira Dec 2012 #263

You're right, I didn't respond to that. Scootaloo Dec 2012 #276

You're making yet another ridiculous comparison. shira Dec 2012 #278

Great post Scootaloo. Democratopia Dec 2012 #223

oops King_David Dec 2012 #296

Bunk. aranthus Dec 2012 #228

I don't agree that Zionism only means the continued existence of Israel. Democratopia Dec 2012 #234

Now I see where you're going. You assume we're against criticism of Israel.... shira Dec 2012 #238

But that isn't what Zionism is. aranthus Dec 2012 #244

Zionism was a movement to give the Jewish people a safe haven. They have that. The Zionist movement Democratopia Dec 2012 #246

Respectfully, you don't get to define Zionism. n/t aranthus Dec 2012 #249

well then why don't you define Zionism for us n/t azurnoir Dec 2012 #252

From Dictionary.com aranthus Dec 2012 #257

well the poster you were addressing seems to fit that description azurnoir Dec 2012 #259

That isn't as important as you think. aranthus Dec 2012 #265

yes it is important because how can one support Israel's existence azurnoir Dec 2012 #266

You support Israel within the green line, but with RoR ensured.... shira Dec 2012 #270

Thank you for proving my point azurnoir Dec 2012 #271

Thank you Azurnoir. Democratopia Dec 2012 #283

oops King_David Dec 2012 #295

Your point being that you didn't mention you're for RoR into Israel.... shira Dec 2012 #301

lol no one in this conversation save you has mentioned RoR azurnoir Dec 2012 #302

Oh? Am I wrong? Suddenly you're not for RoR anymore??? n/t shira Dec 2012 #303

That's the argument made in the OP, however Scootaloo Dec 2012 #237

It isn't just a dismissal of other Jews, but a dismissal of a religion and of a democracy, Democratopia Dec 2012 #248

oops King_David Dec 2012 #297

As I said to another poster, you don't get to define Zionism. aranthus Dec 2012 #250

I can't believe you would bring ethnicity into this. In fact, I am appalled. Democratopia Dec 2012 #255

It's about ideas of a movement. aranthus Dec 2012 #256

I am saying that others have redefined Zionism - it is not me who is defining it. Democratopia Dec 2012 #267

There are many different varieties of Zionism, aranthus Scootaloo Dec 2012 #268

Yes, of course. aranthus Dec 2012 #274

I just go by what the loudest "Pro-Israeli" people keep telling me Scootaloo Dec 2012 #280

Zionism is NOT about there not being a Palestinian homeland. shira Dec 2012 #272

Iget it from you, Shira Scootaloo Dec 2012 #281

No, you really don't. Do you think those claiming "disputed territory".... shira Dec 2012 #288

Ahhh, the trolley problem! Sort of. In a stunted fashion. Scootaloo Dec 2012 #311

You cheated. shira Dec 2012 #313

No, I pointed out the inconsistency of your argument Scootaloo Dec 2012 #314

Okay then....so let's make it more similar shira Dec 2012 #316

Except that's still not similar; there are alternate choices. Scootaloo Dec 2012 #317

No, there aren't alternate choices. He has already started firing away.... shira Dec 2012 #318

The thought experiment is not a good mirror of reality, Shira Scootaloo Dec 2012 #319

While you were typing, 2 more kids were shot dead... shira Dec 2012 #320

What do I do? Scootaloo Dec 2012 #321

What you just did was let the shooter kill dozens.... shira Dec 2012 #322

because your example was stupid and far removed from reality. Scootaloo Dec 2012 #323

You were in a lose-lose situation. And you chose for dozens to be killed.... shira Dec 2012 #324

You can't keep your story straight, Shira Scootaloo Dec 2012 #325

So the Jews I know who are anti-Zionist are anti-Semitic? Bullfuckingshit. Your post is hatespeech. MotherPetrie Dec 2012 #233

Do they support organizations or networks that work & coordinate with.... shira Dec 2012 #239

We should work to find peaceful solutions. Democratopia Dec 2012 #253

Jews live in constant fear in Iran. I know many Persian Jews..... shira Dec 2012 #275

It isn't about hating Jews. Democratopia Dec 2012 #282

If Hamas and the PA were like the IRA, there'd have been 2 states in 1947. shira Dec 2012 #287

That depends on where they are coming from. aranthus Dec 2012 #254

I still find it odd that so much fighting has been done over this rbixby Dec 2012 #258

Israel is a very successful multi-cultural nation - Muslims, Christians, Druze, Bedouins, Democratopia Dec 2012 #269

I agree rbixby Dec 2012 #273

Progressives and Liberals cannot ever hope for peace with the Taliban.... shira Dec 2012 #277

OMG how clever-not what you posted is a wordy rehash of the nefarious rightist line azurnoir Dec 2012 #279

No surprise coming from you. You're for Palestinian nationalism.... shira Dec 2012 #286

I am for Palestinian self determination which you redefine as nationalism azurnoir Dec 2012 #289

If Hamas runs the show for a Palestinian state, that's perfectly okay with you.... shira Dec 2012 #299

No it isn't intaglio Dec 2012 #326

What nonsense. aranthus Jan 2013 #336

Well apart from the fact you are replying to a month old post intaglio Jan 2013 #337

wow..talk about the narrow minded..... pelsar May 2013 #357

Syria bombs Palestinian camps. World is silent. shira Dec 2012 #327

Mondoweiss: "Israel’s worldwide role in repression" shira Jan 2013 #328

Is criticism of Israeli policies and human rights abuses anti-Zionism? R. Daneel Olivaw Jan 2013 #329

Is frothing, rightwing obsessive criticism of Islamist countries.... shira Jan 2013 #330

So you choose not to answer the question, but ask a different multiple-part question? R. Daneel Olivaw Jan 2013 #331

We at least agree that frothing, rightwing obsessive criticism of anything.... shira Jan 2013 #332

Did you intend on answering my earlier question? R. Daneel Olivaw Jan 2013 #333

The answer is "no"; unless it's frothing and obsessive criticism.... shira Jan 2013 #334

"The ethnic majority in Israel are colonial, thieving, ethnic cleansing, genocidal apartheidists" R. Daneel Olivaw Jan 2013 #335

That type of demonization of Jews is not legitimate criticism... shira Jan 2013 #338

The UN and international community see it differently, but I'm sure you may R. Daneel Olivaw Jan 2013 #339

George Galloway doesn't debate Israelis (Jews) shira Feb 2013 #340

(VIDEO) Shlomo Sand at SOAS: Israel is “a shitty nation” & “the most racist society in the world”. shira Feb 2013 #341

Wow. Shlomo Sand, a professor of History at Tel Aviv University believes R. Daneel Olivaw Feb 2013 #342

There's a Palestinian journalist the pro-Palestinians here at DU cannot stand.... shira Feb 2013 #343

The question wasn't about Khaled Abu Toameh, Shira. R. Daneel Olivaw Feb 2013 #344

Another failure by you to answer a simple question. It's obvious all you're capable of here.... shira Feb 2013 #345

No, Shira, it was YOU who didn't answer the question. R. Daneel Olivaw Feb 2013 #346

I feel such a person is a bigot and anti-semite, much like Gilad Atzmon or Bobby Fischer. shira Feb 2013 #347

"Fuck him." R. Daneel Olivaw Feb 2013 #348

A Jew-baiting Tweet by the Guardian’s Michael White shira Mar 2013 #349

Michael White did this to Borat (Sasha Baron Cohen) years ago.... shira Mar 2013 #353

Israel Apartheid Week bigots toss Israeli out of college campus shira Mar 2013 #350

Some Christians like to think America was created to mitigate their persecution by GB etal randr Mar 2013 #351

I'm pro American. I would like to opt out of the problem and let... Walk away Mar 2013 #352

(VIDEO) Jew Bashing - Anti-Semitism in Europe shira May 2013 #354

I should thank you for posting jessie04 May 2013 #358

(Video) Jew Bashing - Anti-Semitism in the USA shira May 2013 #355

Alice Walker recorded @ 42:10: "Zionists will no longer control our Congress". n/t shira Jun 2013 #367

(Video) Jew Bashing - Anti-Semitism in the Middle East shira May 2013 #356

The New Anti-Semitism Israeli May 2013 #359

Did you watch the video you responded to? Or have a problem with it? n/t shira May 2013 #361

I watched it shira .... Israeli May 2013 #364

So you watched it....and disagree? You don't see antisemitism there? shira May 2013 #365

(Video) Jew Bashing - Anti-Semitism in Canada shira Jun 2013 #366

(Video) Zionist Muslims: Moderate Islam Must Fight the Radical shira Jun 2013 #368

Paul Larudee of the International Solidarity movement: Some "peace" activist shira Apr 2014 #369

It's good to see that some are sweating it over the recent movement by Abbas... R. Daneel Olivaw Apr 2014 #370

Why anti-Zionism is inherently anti-Semitic (thread at DU) shira Nov 2014 #371

Anti-Zionism is anti-Semitism (thread at DU) shira Nov 2014 #372

Mondoweiss supports unrepentant terrorist Rasmea Odeh shira Nov 2014 #373

JVP haters support terrorist Rasmea Odeh shira Nov 2014 #374

Max Blumenthal supports Rasmea Odeh too... shira Nov 2014 #378

JVP San Diego sponsored jew hater Alison Weir shira Nov 2014 #385

Electronic Intifada supports terrorist murderer Rasmea Odeh shira Nov 2014 #375

Cynthia McKinney softball interview w/ gutter anti-Semite Gilad Atzmon shira Nov 2014 #376

Max Blumenthal: American Jews are newest whitest WASPs shira Nov 2014 #377

New Low: Anti-Israel BDS Connects Ferguson to ‘Palestine’! shira Nov 2014 #379

David Sheen's vulgar demonization of orthodox Judaism shira Nov 2014 #380

Alison Weir says blood libels were true, pogroms good.... shira Nov 2014 #381

Mondoweiss says it wouldn't be surprising Israel used actors to fake Holocaust testimony. shira Nov 2014 #382

Medea Benjamin goes to Iran to participate in hatefest shira Nov 2014 #383

Mondoweiss: Lutherans, PeaceNow & B’Tselem are "enablers of destruction of Palestine". shira Nov 2014 #384

Mondoweiss:"Like many Jews of conscience....you're fed-up w/ all things Jewish." shira Nov 2014 #386

Neo-Nazi opens Max Blumenthal event sponsored by Jeremy Corbyn MP. shira Nov 2014 #387

B'Tselem researcher says Holocaust never happened shira Nov 2014 #388

JVP via Mondoweiss: All Jews responsible 4 every Palestinian killed shira Nov 2014 #389

UNRWA employees openly celebrate murder of 4 Rabbis in synagogue attack shira Nov 2014 #390

Al-Jazeera op-ed praises synagogue murders of 4 Rabbis shira Nov 2014 #391

BDS Group Spreads Photoshopped Image of Concentration Camp Inmates Holding Anti-Israel Posters shira Nov 2014 #392

Jewish Students Have the Right to Feel Safe on Campus shira Dec 2014 #393

Croatia: Anti-Israel Palestinian-propaganda movie co-opts Anne Frank shira Dec 2014 #394

Dec 2014: Max Blumenthal does David Duke impersonation on twitter shira Dec 2014 #395

"Anti-Imperial" BDS posits Hamas supporters R more progressive than Lib. Zios shira Dec 2014 #396

Mondoweiss agrees w/ PLO: Terrorist murderers are freedom fighters shira Dec 2014 #398

Mondoweiss: Palestinians (Hamas) have right to self-defense shira Aug 2015 #439

Mondoweiss editor denies Jewish Temple history in Jerusalem shira Dec 2014 #399

Mondoweiss: Israel is satanic shira Dec 2014 #400

Mondoweiss publishes anti-semite & David Duke supporter Jeffrey Blankfort shira Dec 2014 #401

No. elleng Dec 2014 #402

Phil Weiss is Jewish & many examples in this thread show.... shira Dec 2014 #404

Daily Kos bans Mondoweiss for being anti-semitic shira Dec 2014 #403

Mondoweiss counts Jews; just like Stormfront & Jew Watch shira Dec 2014 #405

Mondoweiss whitewashes Hamas: "Understanding Hamas" shira Dec 2014 #406

Max Blumenthal calls on Israeli Jews to indigenize themselves in mideast... shira Dec 2014 #407

Max Blumenthal supports Hamas rockets and terror tunnels into Israel shira Dec 2014 #408

Dec. 6, 2014: BrightonBDS says beware of Zionist support for foodbanks shira Dec 2014 #409

Mondoweiss defends Hamas refusal to change grotesque, racist, genocidal charter.... shira Dec 2014 #410

Pro-Hamas Middle East Monitor (MEMO): Why Hamas shouldn't change charter... shira Dec 2014 #411

+972 with ridiculous article explaining away Hamas terror tunnels... shira Dec 2014 #412

So-called "Human Rights Watch" defends Hamas war crimes..... shira Dec 2014 #413

Lots of evidence of BDS hero David Sheen's ugly anti-semitism... shira Dec 2014 #414

10% of Mondoweiss funding comes from conservative, rightwing racist Ron Unz... shira Dec 2014 #415

Mondoweiss happy to publish longtime Jew hater Jeffrey Blankfort... shira Dec 2014 #416

Greta Berlin of FreeGaza & ISM claims Israel behind Charlie Hebdo attack in Paris shira Jan 2015 #417

FreeGaza, ISM, BDS'er Mary Hughes Thompson blames Zionists for Paris attack... shira Jan 2015 #418

S.African pro-terror BDS hosts double-hijacker Leila Khaled shira Jan 2015 #419

Mondoweiss: Doubling down with injection of truth..Terrorists = freedom fighters shira Jan 2015 #420

Pro-Hezbollah group #NYC2Palestine and JVP disrupted NYC council Auschwitz vote. shira Jan 2015 #421

UN Spox Chris Gunness runs cover for UNRWA Union's Holocaust denial shira Apr 2015 #422

Why equating Israel w/Nazis is soft-core Holocaust Denial shira Apr 2015 #423

"Pro-Palestinians" don't seem to be "pro-anyone" shira Apr 2015 #424

The Humanitarian Show shira Apr 2015 #425

There's something very ugly in this rage against Israel shira Apr 2015 #426

I think you should call an exorcist who can lay this thread to rest. n/t Little Tich Apr 2015 #428

You say you're strongly against hate & this thread proves beyond any.... shira Jun 2015 #435

and Anti-Manifest Destiny is anti-White-Male Tyranny Stargleamer Apr 2015 #427

Mondoweiss is a hate site shira May 2015 #429

Hamas supporters behind latest Flotilla from Sweden shira May 2015 #430

HRW's Ken Roth's very 1st tweet about Nepal disaster criticizes Israeli aid shira May 2015 #431

72% of EU Jews regard BDS as anti-Semitic: shira May 2015 #432

Lancet Medical Journal publishes lies & incitement from David Duke & 911 supporters shira May 2015 #433

President Obama says anti-Zionism = anti-Semitism shira Jun 2015 #434

South African BDS protesters threaten to kill Jews shira Jun 2015 #436

Phil Weiss of Mondoweiss counting Jews... shira Jun 2015 #437

Mondoweiss & Holocaust Deniers shira Jun 2015 #438

Mondoweiss still on the fence regarding antisemite, Alison Weir shira Aug 2015 #441

Just when Mondoweiss couldn't get more idiotic, THEY DO.... shira Jan 2016 #442

Amira Hass of Haaretz actually invokes "Elders of Zion" shira Jan 2016 #443

Gideon Levy justifies, incites more attacks on Jewish kids, elderly, pregnant women.... shira Jan 2016 #444

(Brilliant) Open letter to the anti-Israel Left. shira Feb 2016 #445

I can't decide whether Jews Down Under is a hate site or not. What do you think? Little Tich Feb 2016 #448

I'm not convinced it is. But that Open Letter nailed it, don't you think? n/t shira Feb 2016 #449

Oh, the post I replied to? Forgot about that, I was too busy attacking the messenger... Little Tich Feb 2016 #450

But all of that is 100% true. Try naming one thing that's false in that paragraph. n/t shira Feb 2016 #453

No. You try naming one of them leftist the article is "responding" to... n/t Little Tich Feb 2016 #454

That's easy... shira Feb 2016 #455

Well played... Little Tich Feb 2016 #456

It's just about removing settlements & ending occupation? Please. shira Feb 2016 #457

This is getting off-topic, but do you have a point with the 1947 partition plan? Little Tich Feb 2016 #458

Your being against the '47 Partition Plan shows you want the Jewish State gone... shira Feb 2016 #459

I'm not a -stater at all, so you can stop bifurcating... Little Tich Feb 2016 #460

If you want a solution where civil rights are retained.... shira Feb 2016 #461

I'm beginning to have problems with physically navigating this mammoth of a thread. Little Tich Feb 2016 #464

Message auto-removed Name removed Feb 2016 #446

No. elleng Feb 2016 #451

HAMAS is the natural consequence of Zionist aggression against the farmers in Palestine.. Bohemianwriter Feb 2016 #452

"globalresearch" is your go to source? grossproffit Feb 2016 #462

Is there a problem with the source? Bohemianwriter Feb 2016 #463

John Mearsheimer endorses Far-Right racist Ron Unz shira Jun 2016 #465

Holocaust denier defends David Duke on Mondoweiss benefactor Ron Unz website... shira Jun 2016 #466

Mondoweiss: The meritocracy is rigged Little Tich Jun 2016 #469

Andrew Gelman completely ripped Unz's research... shira Jun 2016 #470

It's unconceivable that Philip Weiss is unaware of the extent of Unz's racialist ideas, Little Tich Jun 2016 #471

Of course Weiss knows. Now look into Paul Craig Roberts & tell me what you find. n/t shira Jun 2016 #472

Not interested in researching Paul Craig Roberts? shira Jun 2016 #475

I was unaware of his existence until you told me about him. Little Tich Jun 2016 #476

Ron Unz financially supports Paul Craig Roberts, Mondoweiss, Alison Weir.... shira Jun 2016 #477

Mondoweiss article deliberately incites vs. Jews, mistranslating hebrew to english... shira Jun 2016 #467

Historians rebut Ken Livingstone’s claim that Hitler supported Zionism shira Jun 2016 #468

Netanyahu's a perfect person libodem Jun 2016 #473

Helps if you actually read the OP rather than posting strawmen. n/t shira Jun 2016 #474

Mondoweiss defends antisemitic Mahmoud Abbas libel re: Rabbi poisoning water.... shira Jun 2016 #478

Founder of Breaking the Silence antisemitic libel: Israeli settlers poisoning Palestinian water shira Jun 2016 #479

Kick. Mosby May 2019 #481

This message was self-deleted by its author Celerity Mar 2022 #482