For most of the pro-Israeli posters on this site, this conflict is existential not ideological

[elias7]

This discussion thread was locked as off-topic by Lithos (a host of the Israel/Palestine group).

There was a post earlier about how divisive this issue is amongst DUers. I decided to start a thread because I think the two camps are coming at this from completely different angles.

I hope I am not out of line in saying this, but I imagine most of the pro-Israeli posters on this site are Jewish, have acquaintances, friends or family in Israel, have family who were killed in the Holocaust, and grew up just waiting to hear about the next terrorist attack on Israel by surrounding countries and groups that did not and still do not acknowledge Israel’s right to exist. Our awareness and knowledge of the Israeli-Palestinian issue has been lifelong.

I do not think I am not being presumptuous by stating that most of the pro-Palestinian posters on the site are probably not Muslim or Palestinian and did not grow up with awareness of the history or the evolution of the region from ancient times to the Zionist era, through the decades of repeated Arab attacks on Israel by Egypt, Syria, Lebanon, Jordan and Iraq in 1948, 1956, 1967, and 1973, and now the past 50 years of ongoing terrorist attacks, first by the Arafat and the PLO and later by Hamas, Islamic Jihad, Hezbollah, Al-Aqsa Martyrs Brigade, Fatah and other extremist Islamic groups.

So, when Palestinian's chant from the river to the sea, people who do not have lifelong familiarity with the issue do not realize that this is a call for Jewish extermination as Palestinians and many surrounding nations still have not acknowledged Israel's right to exist, including Iran, Iraq, Kuwait, Lebanon, Qatar, Saudi Arabia, Syria and Yemen, all Muslim countries. Just as we all respect black peoples requests not to use the N word and respect transgender folks request not to say "sex is real", and we respect all the other dog whistles that minority groups tell us are dog whistles, please respect Jewish people being triggered by an existential threat enough not to tell us what you think it means.

The bottom line is that for many or most of the pro-Israeli posters on this site, the conflict is existential not ideological.

So when pro-Palestinian posters point out the devastation going on a Gaza it currently, it is not lost on us, we mourn for innocent lives, we do not all support Netanyahu or current IDF methods, few probably do at its current level, but the rapid worldwide sentiment swinging to a pro-Palestinian narrative within days of Israel responding to the worst terror attack in its history, starting with the bombing of the Gazan hospital and 500 deaths (which turned out to be the bombing of the hospital parking lot, 50 deaths and not at the hands of Israel, but Hamas missiles) is traumatic to me personally and I suspect to many of us.

When even Hamas is welcoming a cease fire, we cannot help but pull our hair out and shout that they could stop the war immediately if they were to surrender, release hostages, stop shooting missiles into Israel, and negotiate for peace. It should not be incumbent upon Israel to stop a war it did not start. Never any history has a country been able to call "timeout" in the middle of the war because it needs a break. Yet, somehow, the world feels that Israel owes this to the people who started the war. I do not feel we should take for granted that Gazans do not support Hamas. I know the majority of them believe Israel should no longer exist as a country and the Jews should leave.

As Bill Maher said on his show this week, Hanukkah is a festival celebrating the Jews recovery of Jerusalem in the 2nd century before Christ, or as the Palestinians say, "get off of our land".

Further:
There are actually more Jewish refugees than Palestinian refugees

The Muslim population in the region was 500,000-600,000 at the end of the Ottoman Empire and beginning of British control of the region at the end of World War II. By 1947, the Muslim population had doubled to 1.2 million. These 600,000 "Palestinians" came to the area because of opportunities due to British control and development.

Although approximately 700,000 Palestinian Arabs were displaced by the Israeli war of independence, the Palestinian central Bureau statistics counts 5.9 million Palestinian refugees, since descendants of originally displaced Palestinians are counted as refugees. By this reasoning, there are 9 million Jewish refugees from their ancestral homeland, as there are 16 million Jews in the world and with 7 million Jews in Israel, that UN does not acknowledge the Jewish refugee problem that I am aware of.

Regarding a two state solution

Arabs have rejected a two state solution repeatedly, in 1922 when 75% of the Palestinian mandate became transJordan, in 1936 with the Peel commission as a result of Arab uprising, in 1948 with a UN partition plan, with Arafat’s PLO rejecting a two state solution with the Oslo accords in 1993-95, Olmert/Abbas in 2008, and most recently in 2019. Israel has always sought peace. Israel has always sought to give land back for peace and acknowledgment. Unfortunately, a Palestinian country will likely manifest as a failed autocracy as Jordan, Syria, Lebanon, and Iraq are currently. In fact, there are no functioning democracies in any of the 22 Arab Islamic states in the region, and none with any substantial rights for women, LGBTQ, etc.

The terms ethnic cleansing and genocide mischaracterize the history of this region

The current population of Gaza and West Bank is approximately 5 million Palestinians. In 1948, the population was approximately 900,000. In 1967, when is we have captured Gaza from Egypt, the population was 400,000 and the West Bank population was 600,000. Given that there are now 2,000,000 and 3,000,000 people in Gaza and the West Bank respectively, no serious argument can be made for ethnic cleansing or genocide.

The bottom line here, is that one side is coming from the perspective of identity and one is coming from the perspective of ideology. I think we both need to appreciate each others' perspective in order to find peace, and we both need to remember to be open-minded about a position we may not accept.