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Israel/Palestine

In reply to the discussion: An immoral boycott [View all]

Little Tich

(6,171 posts)
7. Are you aware of the difference between the occupied territories and Israel?
Thu Jul 7, 2016, 12:30 AM
Jul 2016

It doesn't really help to show how much Israeli Arabs love Israel, when it's about other people who live under Israeli occupation. And it doesn't help to show that the occupied people want freedom and rights like Israelis have either.

The Apartheid analogy stems from the fact that Palestinians living in the occupied territories live under military jurisdiction with no civil rights whatsoever, and Israelis living in the occupied territories have civil rights and access to all resources there, which has led to a disparity in living standards: Palestinian GDP per capita in the West Bank is $1924 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_the_State_of_Palestine) which is considerably less than the Israeli GDP per capita of $35,833. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_Israel). Without any form of discrimination against Palestinians in the occupied territories, there should be equal access to economic opportunities which should mean economic parity.

I've said that I didn't know of a good definition of Apartheid in general, but that doesn't mean that I think that Israel doesn't fit the definition - that a different argument. Apartheid is a system of discrimination, and the political system in South Africa was an example of such a system. A definition of Apartheid is difficult to formulate, as it would be almost impossible to include all possible forms of discrimination that an Apartheid system could use.

The Israel apartheid analogy is based on scholarly analysis and facts while the objections to the analogy are more based on opinion. At least that's my own opinion...

Israel and the apartheid analogy
Source: Wikipedia

Israel and the apartheid analogy compares Israel's treatment of Palestinians to South Africa's treatment of non-whites during its apartheid era within the context of the anti-humanitarian crime of apartheid, as expressed by the Israeli concept of hafrada.

The analogy has been used by some scholars, United Nations investigators, and human rights groups critical of Israeli policy. Critics of Israeli policy say that "a system of control" in the Israeli-occupied West Bank, including the ID system, Israeli settlements, separate roads for Israeli and Palestinian citizens around many of these settlements, military checkpoints, marriage law, the West Bank barrier, use of Palestinians as cheaper labour, Palestinian West Bank exclaves, inequities in infrastructure, legal rights, and access to land and resources between Palestinians and Israeli residents in the Israeli-occupied territories, resembles some aspects of the South African apartheid regime, and that elements of Israel's occupation constitute forms of colonialism and of apartheid, contrary to international law. Some commentators extend the analogy to include treatment of Arab citizens of Israel, describing their citizenship status as second-class.

Opponents of the analogy claim that the comparison is factually, morally, and historically inaccurate and intended to delegitimize Israel. Opponents state that the West Bank and Gaza are not part of sovereign Israel. They argue that though the internal free movement of Palestinians is heavily regulated by the Israeli government, the territories are governed by the elected Palestinian Authority and Hamas leaders, so they cannot be compared to the internal policies of apartheid South Africa.

With regard to the situation within Israel itself, critics of the analogy argue that Israel cannot be called an apartheid state because unlike South Africa which enshrined its racial segregation policies in law, Israeli law is the same for Jewish citizens and other Israeli citizens, with no explicit distinction between race, creed or sex. However, others believe that even if Israeli law does not make explicit distinction between categories of citizens, in effect it privileges Jewish citizens and discriminates against non-Jewish, and particularly Arab, citizens of the state, by creating benefits for IDF service, which is not mandatory for Arabs (but is optional).

Read more: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israel_and_the_apartheid_analogy

An immoral boycott [View all] Fozzledick Jul 2016 OP
I support BDS because I'm opposed to Apartheid. Little Tich Jul 2016 #1
it's not apartheid 6chars Jul 2016 #2
The system in the West Bank is very similar to apartheid... Violet_Crumble Jul 2016 #3
It's neither apartheid, nor is it similar to apartheid. shira Jul 2016 #4
Hmmm. I say West Bank. You say Israel... Violet_Crumble Jul 2016 #14
The topic is BDS & the BDS leaders claim Israel is apartheid shira Jul 2016 #15
If they're saying that Israel has imposed a system in the West Bank similar to apartheid... Violet_Crumble Jul 2016 #16
(EDITED) They're saying Israel is apartheid. That's a lie, correct? shira Jul 2016 #22
I don't know what they say and don't really care Violet_Crumble Jul 2016 #24
That last bit was about Tutu claiming Israel within its borders is apartheid.... shira Jul 2016 #25
No, I'm asking about the bit where you mentioned Nelson Mandela... Violet_Crumble Jul 2016 #31
Mandela never claimed Israel was apartheid, similar to apartheid, etc.... shira Jul 2016 #34
And? I'm not getting yr point in mentioning he hasn't mentioned it... Violet_Crumble Jul 2016 #36
Mandela didn't believe Israel was apartheid, similar...in Israel or the W.Bank. shira Jul 2016 #37
Just addressed that downthread.... Violet_Crumble Jul 2016 #39
You can scream from the rooftops leftynyc Jul 2016 #10
I don't need to. The fact is it's very similar to South African Apartheid... Violet_Crumble Jul 2016 #12
And yet again you COMPLETELY leftynyc Jul 2016 #17
Not ignoring anything. The discussions about apartheid Violet_Crumble Jul 2016 #21
Does shoving words into leftynyc Jul 2016 #26
It comes through loud and clear in yr posts Violet_Crumble Jul 2016 #30
How many times do I need to post leftynyc Jul 2016 #40
Tutu has no credibility WRT Israel when he claims Israel within its borders is apartheid. n/t shira Jul 2016 #28
He's talking about the Occupied Territories... Violet_Crumble Jul 2016 #33
Wrong. Again, Tutu was quoted stating Israel within its borders is Apartheid... shira Jul 2016 #35
Interesting. I wonder if he's referring to East Jerusalem Violet_Crumble Jul 2016 #38
You can be opposed to Israeli policy w/o supporting a racist hate movement like BDS.... shira Jul 2016 #5
Are you aware of the difference between the occupied territories and Israel? Little Tich Jul 2016 #7
Your whole approach to the I/P conflict is fundamentally dishonest... shira Jul 2016 #20
Wow, I was thinking the exact same thing about you... Little Tich Jul 2016 #42
I believe in definitions, common terminology. You just make stuff up.... shira Jul 2016 #46
I've never supported any form of boycott against Matisyahu. Little Tich Jul 2016 #49
I looked back and you're right. However, the BDS movement, Omar Barghouti.... shira Jul 2016 #50
That's all very nice, but do you think that Palestinians in the occupied territories are Little Tich Jul 2016 #51
So discrimination is apartheid? shira Jul 2016 #52
Mondoweiss disagrees with "...strongly rejecting idea Israel & Zionism = Jews" shira Jul 2016 #54
Your conclusion seems to be based on a misunderstanding of the content of the MW article, Little Tich Jul 2016 #55
Only because you falsely define Israel's existence as a Jewish state as apartheid. aranthus Jul 2016 #6
No. For me it's all about rights. Little Tich Jul 2016 #8
"I think all Israelis should have the same rights regardless whether they are Jewish or not" oberliner Jul 2016 #9
What about rights regarding property? Violet_Crumble Jul 2016 #13
And again here you are leftynyc Jul 2016 #18
And here you are again. Violet_Crumble Jul 2016 #27
LOL leftynyc Jul 2016 #29
Where are you getting that 'knowledge' of what happened in 1947? Violet_Crumble Jul 2016 #32
Please share what you know about that oberliner Jul 2016 #19
I'm thinking of the laws about absentee property. Violet_Crumble Jul 2016 #23
All Israelis DO have the same rights leftynyc Jul 2016 #11
Ony Jewish citizens have the same rights. Little Tich Jul 2016 #43
No, your approach is the red herring. aranthus Jul 2016 #41
First of all, BDS is a tool, not an organization. Little Tich Jul 2016 #44
Proving once again how ignorant you are of BDS and the entire I/P issue. aranthus Jul 2016 #45
I can't see the link between the companies on the Illinois list and the organization you claim is Little Tich Jul 2016 #48
The BDS you support was co-founded by Omar Barghouti shira Jul 2016 #47
Omar Barghouti's friends in BDS, both ElectronicIntifada & Mondoweiss blame Jews.... shira Jul 2016 #53
Message auto-removed Name removed Jan 2022 #56
Six years on and I still strongly support BDS... Violet_Crumble Mar 2022 #57
Hey :) Israeli Mar 2022 #58
Hello old friend! Violet_Crumble Mar 2022 #59
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