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Addison

(299 posts)
47. Well said
Tue May 7, 2013, 06:51 PM
May 2013

But your arguments rely on a lot of assumptions and, respectfully, I believe you're demonstrating the typical lack of imagination and self-analysis that's all too common in modern education.

"since they are anonymous, there is arguably no way at all to determine their quality"

If the evaluations help the teacher improve his or her teaching, then they are high quality evaluations, no? But this of course depends on how you define such improvement, and whether the teacher is willing to try to improve, or believes it is even possible. Many teachers assume their correctness on all educational decisions. They are the "teacher", after all.

"The more challenging a class is, the more likely it is to receive poor student evaluations."

Again, the subjective nature, and conflicting opinions about what might constitute "challenging." Many young people enjoy having their mental processes challenged. They are generally more open-minded than adults. Nevertheless, like adults, they do not enjoy being "challenged" by excessive workloads, especially if the work is perceived as unnecessary busywork.

"students are uniquely NOT qualified to evaluate their professors, both because they tend to evaluate from an emotional perspective rather than a rational or informed one"

First off, it's painful to hear this common argument against listening to students' opinions, because of the inherent hypocrisy of believing that on one hand young people are capable of mastering such incredibly sophisticated skills as reading Shakespeare or doing calculus, but incapable of reflecting on such skills objectively. Further, can't the same be said for teacher's grading practices? One wonders what differences we might find in the grades of students who are anonymously graded, particularly in subjects which require subjective evaluations.

"the merit and utility of ANY class is often not apparent to students until years later"

This assumes that most professionals, upon looking back at their classes, agree that the classes properly prepared them for their career. A huge assumption, which I think is not always borne out by the facts. Besides, shouldn't the utility of a class be made obvious to the student, if it can be? If the utility cannot be made obvious, that calls into question whether such utility exists and/or whether the teacher adequately understands the material. Evaluations may, perhaps, ferret this out.

"In education, the "product" we provide is opportunity to learn in a structured environment."

Every waking moment of a person's life is an opportunity to learn. A person may choose to learn in the structured environment of school, or, as is the case with most children, be compelled to learn in such an environment by force of law, but what they actually learn is not necessarily what their teachers think they are learning, or think that they should learn.

And of course the biggest assumption that we often make, either when discussing teacher evaluations or grading methodology -- or even the very idea of grading itself -- is that our system of categorization, the questions we ask and the criteria we value, is a true and accurate method of determining a particular question; i.e., is the professor good at teaching this subject, or is the student good at learning it.

As the old saw goes, ask the wrong question and it won't matter what answer you get.

No shit, right? Who, in the end, are the clients, the customers? NYC_SKP May 2013 #1
How does your comment relate to teacher evaluations by the students? Buzz Clik May 2013 #3
Students traditionally are powerless. Letting them evaluate teachers would go against tradition. NYC_SKP May 2013 #4
I don't know. I think that teacher evaluations by a bunch of hormone poisoned kids... Buzz Clik May 2013 #5
"hormone poisoned kids"????????? Addison May 2013 #7
You ever have a 14-year-old boy or girl in your home for more than 2 hours? Buzz Clik May 2013 #10
Folks said the same kinds of things about blacks Addison May 2013 #16
save that all kids are that way DonCoquixote May 2013 #27
Ageist. Neoma May 2013 #49
Brain research. LWolf May 2013 #54
Be careful Addison May 2013 #62
What the poster described is not pseudo-science. And to liken it to phrenology is quite bizarre. Squinch May 2013 #67
It isn't pseudo-science. LWolf May 2013 #74
Citing "brain research" Addison May 2013 #75
No. LWolf May 2013 #80
LOL!!!!!! Buzz Clik May 2013 #57
Seemed to strike a nerve Addison May 2013 #60
Yeah, you're trying to bait me. Buzz Clik May 2013 #61
You're baiting yourself, and I'm just reeling you in Addison May 2013 #63
We're CRK7376 May 2013 #56
Yep. Buzz Clik May 2013 #58
Yes, I do think most teachers of adolescents ask them on some basis to say what was good and what mbperrin May 2013 #77
Just a guess: you don't spend a lot of time in schools, right? Squinch May 2013 #26
Spent most of my life in schools Addison May 2013 #29
Your wording is very careful. In what capacity did you spend most of your life in schools? Squinch May 2013 #31
Not that I think it matters Addison May 2013 #40
And who said that children don't have thoughts and feelings and perspectives? Squinch May 2013 #46
Squinch, you said it was "silly" to ask kids . . . Addison May 2013 #48
I am not afraid of anything. But here are some realities: Squinch May 2013 #50
We're not arguing over the same topic Addison May 2013 #52
And if the children's opinions of their teachers becomes part of the evaluation, how are you going Squinch May 2013 #65
And should administrators never be allowed to fire a teacher? Addison May 2013 #68
On the say so of a child? Squinch May 2013 #69
Of course. Addison May 2013 #70
Really, you are too much. Have a nice day. Squinch May 2013 #71
Here's one. I teach seniors. Young lady spills a drink in class, so I hand her some paper towels we mbperrin May 2013 #78
And if she handed in excellent work, according to your standards, Addison May 2013 #79
If your attitude is shared by other adults in these kids' lives, then they don't have much chance. NYC_SKP May 2013 #9
And you'd be willing to let them have decision making power over your employment? Buzz Clik May 2013 #11
I would not give them sole power, any more than I'd use just one form of assessment for them. NYC_SKP May 2013 #12
Well, it is a crazy idea! marew May 2013 #32
Well said Addison May 2013 #14
Putting aside the disgusting fact that Cato provided this... Buzz Clik May 2013 #2
I do find the fact that Hentoff joined the Cato Institute one of life's great mysteries Addison May 2013 #6
There are teachers who should be banned from the classroom until the end of time. Buzz Clik May 2013 #8
Because being children- marew May 2013 #20
Wow is right Addison May 2013 #23
So you are comparing children to animals! Really? marew May 2013 #36
Nothing simple and primitive about reading Addison May 2013 #41
no mystery at all. hentoff is a winger. HiPointDem May 2013 #81
You have that right! marew May 2013 #17
I'm not suggesting teachers don't care Addison May 2013 #21
Of course they care! marew May 2013 #37
. Squinch May 2013 #22
Thanks marew May 2013 #39
I think it would be very easy to go through the Squinch May 2013 #42
You are so on target! n/t marew May 2013 #45
This is really very silly. Squinch May 2013 #13
What if we had no idea what kids "need" to learn Addison May 2013 #15
We have a pretty good idea what kids in grade school need to know. Even Bill Gates. Squinch May 2013 #19
I work with kids, too Addison May 2013 #28
What you are suggesting has nothing to do with giving children credit for their intelligence. Squinch May 2013 #33
Come on! marew May 2013 #44
Right! marew May 2013 #43
Excellent post! n/t marew May 2013 #18
+1 MichiganVote May 2013 #30
agreed 100 percent.... mike_c May 2013 #34
Well said Addison May 2013 #47
I think we are talking about two different things.... mike_c May 2013 #73
I've seen it countless times where a teacher is Squinch May 2013 #51
I agree with some CRK7376 May 2013 #59
Because DonCoquixote May 2013 #24
EXACTLY! marew May 2013 #38
Old issue on Long Island HockeyMom May 2013 #25
I was not involved in K-12 education.... chillfactor May 2013 #35
There isn't any reason not to have students evaluate teachers. FBaggins May 2013 #53
Ask a first grader "how many times they are called on to interact with the content," and his answer Squinch May 2013 #66
Stupidest idea EVER duffyduff May 2013 #55
Can we pick the students? My 1st graders love me. proud2BlibKansan May 2013 #64
Some college kids could do it just fine. Igel May 2013 #72
The evaluation of teaching skills is difficult at best, even when done by experts. Student may ladjf May 2013 #76
professsors greymattermom May 2013 #82
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