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progree

(11,463 posts)
19. If she lives 20 more years and gets $290/month, that's a 6.148% annual average return
Sun Dec 11, 2022, 07:18 PM
Dec 2022

Last edited Sun Dec 11, 2022, 09:24 PM - Edit history (4)

on a $40,000 investment according to Excel.

=RATE(240, 290, -40000, 0.1) *12 = 6.148%

There are 240 months in 20 years.

The 0.1 is a "guess" on the interest rate (in decimal form, e.g. 0.1 = 10%). Not essential usually to have the "guess".

I've checked it out a couple of different ways -- doing it long-hand by putting all 240 months in a spreadsheet and present worthing it all at that interest rate.

Also by using the @IRR formula (internal rate of return). So all 3 ways it comes up with the same answer.

So if she thinks she can do better than 6.148% annualized average return, and expects to live exactly 20 more years, she should take the lump sum. Otherwise accept the pension. Or take the lump sum and get an annuity, insured by a long-stable insurance company that does this well or better.

In the below, Years is the number of additional years she lives. The longer she lives, the more lucrative the pension or equivalent annuity is.

Years   Rate of return
===   =========
10      -2.699% (yes, a negative rate of return because $290 for 120 months = $34,800
                           which is less than the $40,000 lump sum)
15      3.705%
20      6.148%
25      7.284%
30     7.874%

Edited to add: All of the above rates of return assume that each $290 payment is invested right away at this same rate of return. So if it sits in some very low return money market fund for months and months or longer, than these returns won't be realized. And if they are spent, then all of the above is null and void.

If we put the $290's under the mattress and let it accumulate, then after 20 years we'd have 240*$290 = $69,600

So over 20 years, the $40,000 investment accumulates to $69,600

That's just a 2.808% average annual rate of return ( 40,000 * 1.02808^20 = $69,600 )

So, from a rate of return standpoint, it matters a lot what one does with the $290's.

=================================================

How to Calculate Annuities Using Excel, By C. Taylor
https://smallbusiness.chron.com/calculate-annuities-using-excel-27850.html

This message was self-deleted by its author snowybirdie Dec 2022 #1
You can get snowybirdie Dec 2022 #2
KYN--Kayne Anderson is paying over 9% bif Dec 2022 #7
How much of that KYN 9% includes return of principal? It doesn't look so great at Morningstar progree Dec 2022 #11
I faced the same decision. My company offered an enhanced rate on the annuity, noticeably better MLAA Dec 2022 #3
She worked for a bank ages ago. bif Dec 2022 #8
Do you have to pay multigraincracker Dec 2022 #4
how is her health? lapfog_1 Dec 2022 #5
She's very healthy! bif Dec 2022 #10
Is there a Cost Of Living adjustment on the pension? Is the pension fund reliable over the long term Midnight Writer Dec 2022 #6
No COLA bif Dec 2022 #9
I had one of those small pensions and I cashed it in for the lump sum yellowdogintexas Dec 2022 #12
I cashed in mine for about 20k and... bif Dec 2022 #13
I would absolutely consider an annuity. A HERETIC I AM Dec 2022 #14
I already have an annuity bif Dec 2022 #16
Nothing stopping you from having more than one! LOL.... A HERETIC I AM Dec 2022 #17
Thanks. bif Dec 2022 #18
I am frequently astonished at the trashing of annuities here on DU. PoindexterOglethorpe Dec 2022 #22
My annuity has lost 23.3% in purchasing power in the last 6 years, due to inflation progree Dec 2022 #23
What I appreciate is the rock-solid dependability of the annuities. PoindexterOglethorpe Dec 2022 #24
So true, about annuities often being trashed here on DU. PoindexterOglethorpe Dec 2022 #25
I was offered a buyout at 62 for $104k, so far I have doc03 Dec 2022 #15
If she lives 20 more years and gets $290/month, that's a 6.148% annual average return progree Dec 2022 #19
How well is the pension fund managed? Is it underfunded? Pobeka Dec 2022 #20
After talking to our broker bif Dec 2022 #21
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