Men's Group

ZombieHorde

(29,047 posts)

3. I think there is a misunderstanding here.

Reply to Warren DeMontague (Original post)

Wed Aug 8, 2012, 05:51 PM

Aug 2012

The patriarchy does not make men enjoy the sight of nude women. Eyeballs and heterosexuality make men enjoy the sight of nude women, or at least some nude women. It is natural.

The mainstream concerns with porn is the affect it may have on some to many men. The combination of male privilege (patriarchy) and the viewing of pornography that features women, can make the viewer see women as sex objects, and therefore, feel less offended by sexist behavior and rape.

An important communication concern of mine, in the porn debate, is the definition of porn. Some anti-porn folks do not consider Playboy magazine to be pornography, while others do. Some people define porn as violent sexual imagery/text, and define erotica as "nice" sexual imagery/text. Whenever having a porn debate, I suggest asking the person you are debating with to say what they mean by the word "porn."

Edit history

Please sign in to view edit histories.

69 replies

= new reply since forum marked as read

Highlight:

Yes, it was a Joke. But it points up a real question. [View all] Warren DeMontague Aug 2012 OP

Wow. *smh* redqueen Aug 2012 #1

So when you talk of "smash the patrirchy", do you agree with Dworkin, "twisty", etc Warren DeMontague Aug 2012 #2

You're straying from the topic, but since I was socialized to be nice... redqueen Aug 2012 #7

So the widespread conspiracy known as "the Patriarchy" is responsible for, at root, all oppression.. Warren DeMontague Aug 2012 #10

This is where I start thinking this is a waste of time. redqueen Aug 2012 #25

The source of racism is racism. Warren DeMontague Aug 2012 #29

So you need familiarity of sociology to understand ideas from those with zero sociology background? Major Nikon Aug 2012 #42

Could you define the patriarchy, as you are using it 4th law of robotics Aug 2012 #13

All of those things are contextual and fluid, hifiguy Aug 2012 #16

A pretty good indicator that someone is full of shit is 4th law of robotics Aug 2012 #17

"Smashing the patriarchy" = "Hell freezing over" ProudToBeBlueInRhody Aug 2012 #21

"Patriarchy" = "That Which Needs To Be Smashed" Warren DeMontague Aug 2012 #22

Sounds like a job for She-Hulk 4th law of robotics Aug 2012 #35

I think there is a misunderstanding here. ZombieHorde Aug 2012 #3

Good point. Porn is not a synonym for sex, redqueen Aug 2012 #4

Actually, its the reverse that is disingenuous. Trying to present pictures of naked people Warren DeMontague Aug 2012 #6

Yes, of course. redqueen Aug 2012 #9

I agree that there should be scrutiny, worker protection, etc. Warren DeMontague Aug 2012 #11

Both men and women enjoy looking at people they find attractive. redqueen Aug 2012 #24

Isn't that nice of you to judge how everyone does things. Warren DeMontague Aug 2012 #27

Nope. redqueen Aug 2012 #31

Sorry, if you're looking for a place where bogus psychobabble concepts like "objectification" and Warren DeMontague Aug 2012 #33

You're thinking of this from a dude-science standpoint 4th law of robotics Aug 2012 #41

Here's what I find particularly amusing Major Nikon Aug 2012 #47

I sincerely doubt that you have ever so much as walked by a college level Soc course. opiate69 Aug 2012 #38

Yes, clearly *we* are the problem 4th law of robotics Aug 2012 #40

Well then... opiate69 Aug 2012 #8

Never. Here's why... redqueen Aug 2012 #26

And who is that quote from? Gail "Zero Corroboration" Dines? Warren DeMontague Aug 2012 #28

Well isn't that a nice, unsourced non-sequitor.... opiate69 Aug 2012 #39

you know you see the shit and glass on the pizza and recoil, but theres someone out there who goes loli phabay Aug 2012 #48

Interesting Statement, Here: Warren DeMontague Aug 2012 #23

I guess Sheila Jeffreys is a separatist. Whatever. redqueen Aug 2012 #30

I won't alert, but you're not gonna be allowed to come in here and insult group members. Or Hosts. Warren DeMontague Aug 2012 #32

Define "coerce" as you use it 4th law of robotics Aug 2012 #36

Dworkin never "backed off that idea" Major Nikon Aug 2012 #43

And I think that is important, especially since in those debates, a time honored Warren DeMontague Aug 2012 #5

Here is a document from JSTOR, a highly respected, peer review journal. ZombieHorde Aug 2012 #34

Pah! You couldn't be bothered to read the whole thing, but I'm supposed to? Warren DeMontague Aug 2012 #44

I am not asking you to do anything. I was just accepting your request for evidence. ZombieHorde Aug 2012 #51

I did, see below. Warren DeMontague Aug 2012 #54

JSTOR is NOT a "highly respected, peer review journal" Major Nikon Aug 2012 #46

OK, you're right. I have used JSTOR many times for college debates, ZombieHorde Aug 2012 #52

How does everyone here feel about the American Psychological Association? nt ZombieHorde Aug 2012 #53

Can I have the time back that I just spent on that, please? ...Please??? Warren DeMontague Aug 2012 #50

OK, my bad. How do you feel about the APA? nt ZombieHorde Aug 2012 #58

Depends. Are they going to make me read a 30 page PDF on the phallocentric implications Warren DeMontague Aug 2012 #68

I've noticed a great many of the people lamenting the devastating effects of porn 4th law of robotics Aug 2012 #14

I also think it's deeply offensive when people take it upon themselves to "repair" or "critique" Warren DeMontague Aug 2012 #18

Well they're just trying to help 4th law of robotics Aug 2012 #20

bravo, loli phabay Aug 2012 #49

It's hard to believe people are still pushing these debunked ideas Major Nikon Aug 2012 #37

Exactly. Warren DeMontague Aug 2012 #45

The idea I am trying to push is polite debate. ZombieHorde Aug 2012 #57

The problem with the anti-porn debate 4th law of robotics Aug 2012 #59

Do you have those documents handy? ZombieHorde Aug 2012 #60

Enough with the coy, passive-aggressive bullshit.... opiate69 Aug 2012 #62

I have nothing from the APA. I just want to know if they are an accepted source ZombieHorde Aug 2012 #64

Without seeing specific documents, can`t say for sure.... opiate69 Aug 2012 #65

I agree there are concerns with porn Major Nikon Aug 2012 #61

I am not advocating outlawing pornography. ZombieHorde Aug 2012 #63

I go one step farther than that Major Nikon Aug 2012 #66

I completely respect your position. ZombieHorde Aug 2012 #67

I think most behaviors can be linked to a combination of society/genetics 4th law of robotics Aug 2012 #12

Only someone woefully and utterly ignorant of hifiguy Aug 2012 #15

If they're prepared to argue that PIV sex is "unnatural" and necessarily traumatic 4th law of robotics Aug 2012 #19

Okay, folks, my joke isn't half as funny as this thing: Warren DeMontague Aug 2012 #55

I think they're bored 4th law of robotics Aug 2012 #56

It's like feminist academia is reacting to a series of reciprocal dares. lumberjack_jeff Aug 2012 #69