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Men's Group
In reply to the discussion: why does this crud continue [View all]lumberjack_jeff
(33,224 posts)66. Point by point
Last edited Wed Jul 11, 2012, 11:21 AM - Edit history (1)
The whole argument by MRA champions that males are dropping behind in education, work more dangerous jobs, live shorter lives, etc. because there is some sort of institutional bias against males is problematic for ONE SIMPLE REASON:
MEN oppress each other. It's predominantly MEN crafting all sorts of social and legal frameworks to marginalize other groups, including other men. MEN oppress other groups disproportionate to any other group. Specifically, rich white men. But, I will say that the most powerful indicator of privilege is class, and THAT is one thing you should be focusing on.
MEN oppress each other. It's predominantly MEN crafting all sorts of social and legal frameworks to marginalize other groups, including other men. MEN oppress other groups disproportionate to any other group. Specifically, rich white men. But, I will say that the most powerful indicator of privilege is class, and THAT is one thing you should be focusing on.
Are the men in power applying the same kinds of marginalization to women? Obviously not because "men fall behind in education, work more dangerous jobs etc". For purposes of this discussion, "who is doing the oppressing?" is irrelevant.
The power structure considers powerless men disposable and extraneous. They put programs in place to protect vulnerable women (WIC, VAWA, EEOC) but don't do the same for vulnerable men. Class is important, but the impact of class on people is very gender selective.
The most effective way to escape your socioeconomic class is to go into a high-prestige profession.
Which requires college, does it not? The bar for boys to get into college is much higher than girls and it manifests in the fact that a girl is 50% more likely to go to college than her brother.
There are a lot of great arguments from gender studies that talk about how our society's expectation of stereotypical male and female behaviors force people into narrow, proscribed gender roles that greatly limit what they can and cannot do.
And yet when the topic of single sex classrooms and its correlation to a 50% improvement in girls test scores and a 300% improvement of boys test scores is brought up, the idea is ridiculed and mercilessly attacked. If the "narrow proscribed gender role" in question is boys belief that school really isn't for them, it's immensely threatening.
Some kinds of oppressive paternalistic authoritative influence are apparently okay. Also, the broad range of acceptable gender roles for kids consist of points on the spectrum of normal girl behavior, outside that boundary lies pathology.
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Apparently many on DU are convinced that radical feminism is a progressive agenda
Major Nikon
Jul 2012
#4
The right wins when they make the issue anything other than class warfare
ProudToBeBlueInRhody
Jul 2012
#8
It's always nice when they decide they are "done here" and you're "not worth it"....
ProudToBeBlueInRhody
Jul 2012
#71
It's pretty effective at revealing the mental age of those who choose to use such rhetoric
Major Nikon
Jul 2012
#70
Trumad, you've made it perfectly clear how you feel about this group, repeatedly.
Warren DeMontague
Jul 2012
#41
This is exactly the sort of shit that should get you banned in a safe haven (n/m)
ProudToBeBlueInRhody
Jul 2012
#42
Actually your histrionic response here has inadvertently raised a good point
4th law of robotics
Jul 2012
#35
There is very little "gender essentialism" here and there aren't a whole lot of "MRAs", either.
Warren DeMontague
Jul 2012
#45
If you have a problem with the existence of the group, you shouldn't be posting here.
Warren DeMontague
Jul 2012
#48
You are in a protected group, and calling out group members, attacking the existence of the group,
Warren DeMontague
Jul 2012
#53
Also, "The Patriarchy" as it is presented by the folks "poked fun at", is a conspiracy theory
Warren DeMontague
Jul 2012
#46
And I like Andrew Blake, but I neither said you were a fan of Dworkin nor asked who your favorite
Warren DeMontague
Jul 2012
#51
Why you even assume I need a lecture or some sort of ethical inventory-taking is beyond me.
Warren DeMontague
Jul 2012
#58
Remember that you're in a protected group, and you ought to try to stick to the topic of the thread.
Warren DeMontague
Jul 2012
#61
You have acknowledged having, quote, "multiple accounts". How are we supposed to know who IS "you"
Warren DeMontague
Jul 2012
#68
P.S. Here is the point at which you personify the conversation to reflect your own experiences.
DeadParrotz
Jul 2012
#60
Due to this exchange, your favorite group on your profile is now "The Men's Group". Just FYI.
Warren DeMontague
Jul 2012
#62
And no, I didn't personify anything in that post, I made the comment about Andrew Blake only in
Warren DeMontague
Jul 2012
#64
And its funny because the same people who condemn men for allegedly
4th law of robotics
Jul 2012
#88