Men's Group

Major Nikon

(36,899 posts)

65. Historical racism is not the same thing as historical sexism

Reply to nomorenomore08 (Reply #62)

Mon Oct 6, 2014, 08:40 AM

Oct 2014

If your great grandmother was denied the right to vote, you are just as likely to be male as female.

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A number of my issues with the brand of Feminism on DU [View all] Veilex Sep 2014 OP

It is such a strange dynamic. The "Greatest" page is nearly always plastered with Doctor_J Sep 2014 #1

Post removed Post removed Sep 2014 #6

It's been decided, in an OP saying "Yeah, yeah....I know men get abused, everyone knows that!"... ProudToBeBlueInRhody Sep 2014 #2

And let's not forget... Veilex Sep 2014 #3

That is bad. Behind the Aegis Sep 2014 #4

A dubious argument to be sure. nomorenomore08 Sep 2014 #9

Exactly right! Veilex Oct 2014 #41

The fact that reciprocally violent relationships are the ones most likely to produce injured women.. lumberjack_jeff Oct 2014 #49

I think dealing with intimate partner violence as a whole is vitally important, yes. nomorenomore08 Oct 2014 #54

There have been easily 500 times more DU posts upset about spiderwoman's butt, than about ebola. Warren DeMontague Sep 2014 #5

J.Lo's butt pulled ahead of Kardashian AND Spider Woman's. Eleanors38 Sep 2014 #7

We're a shallow, superficial culture that likes to squabble over the most inane bullshit. nomorenomore08 Sep 2014 #10

Oh, it doesn't surprise me a bit. I've been here long enough. Warren DeMontague Sep 2014 #12

On the one hand, I'm not going to dictate to someone else what they should consider important. nomorenomore08 Sep 2014 #13

I wont either. Warren DeMontague Sep 2014 #15

Same here. There's a lot of silliness on DU, and it's not limited to any particular faction. n/t nomorenomore08 Sep 2014 #16

Post removed Post removed Sep 2014 #8

I can more or less see where you're coming from, but I still think you're over-generalizing. nomorenomore08 Sep 2014 #11

The thing is, when people insult and personally attack others fairly regularly Warren DeMontague Sep 2014 #14

I do think you've been treated unfairly, and misrepresented, by certain posters. I've said as much nomorenomore08 Sep 2014 #17

"Some people just seem to have this need to divide the whole world into "good guys" and "bad guys" " Veilex Sep 2014 #20

There are good guys. And there are bad guys. Warren DeMontague Sep 2014 #23

"There ain't no good guy, there ain't no bad guy..." nomorenomore08 Sep 2014 #26

You're far too young to have Dave Mason stuck in your ear, sonny. Warren DeMontague Sep 2014 #30

You asked for it! radicalliberal Sep 2014 #32

Point taken. But I think you have to consider what's at stake, not just in this country but globally nomorenomore08 Sep 2014 #25

"you have to consider what's at stake, not just in this country but globally" - And I do. Veilex Sep 2014 #27

"I refuse to support them to the exclusion of others social and economic issues." nomorenomore08 Sep 2014 #28

"folks (not all of them male) have a tendency to be somewhat dismissive of feminist issues" Veilex Sep 2014 #29

I can't argue with that. nomorenomore08 Sep 2014 #31

Well, anybody who knows who I am over on DI Warren DeMontague Sep 2014 #22

In her case... Veilex Sep 2014 #18

The world is filled with double standards, many of which do great harm to one gender or even both. nomorenomore08 Sep 2014 #19

"The world is filled with double standards" - While true, that doesn't excuse it. Veilex Sep 2014 #21

I didn't say it excused it. But frankly, I have better things to worry about. nomorenomore08 Sep 2014 #24

You can add GamerGate to the list Hayabusa Sep 2014 #33

I highly doubt there are many (if any any) clean hands on this one... Veilex Sep 2014 #34

There are trolls on both sides Hayabusa Sep 2014 #35

Yet another perfect example of issues I take with the DU's brand of Feminism Veilex Oct 2014 #36

Jury results hifiguy Oct 2014 #37

Interesting. Veilex Oct 2014 #38

Quoting (and linking to) their own posts is viewed as an attack or "bashing". hifiguy Oct 2014 #44

+1 - It also dilutes and distracts from the valid push of feminism. Veilex Oct 2014 #45

Thanks for sharing hifiguy Veilex Oct 2014 #39

"Sexism CANNOT be practiced by both sexes in a patriarchy." Major Nikon Oct 2014 #40

+1 Veilex Oct 2014 #42

You see this a LOT with this particular brand of feminism. Hayabusa Oct 2014 #43

In what sense are white people, or men, systematically discriminated against? nomorenomore08 Oct 2014 #47

Great question. Can we establish some definitions first? lumberjack_jeff Oct 2014 #48

I'm not sure anyone who makes such claims will agree to any definition Major Nikon Oct 2014 #51

Hope springs eternal. lumberjack_jeff Oct 2014 #53

More or less, yeah. Those definitions are a good start at least. nomorenomore08 Oct 2014 #55

So examples that comply 100% with the definitions given upthread would fall on deaf ears? lumberjack_jeff Oct 2014 #57

Men do have a lot of legitimate problems in this society - incarceration, homelessness, etc. nomorenomore08 Oct 2014 #58

So discrimination against men administered by other men is not oppression? lumberjack_jeff Oct 2014 #59

Of course it's still oppressive. I didn't really mean to suggest otherwise. nomorenomore08 Oct 2014 #62

Historical racism is not the same thing as historical sexism Major Nikon Oct 2014 #65

So you'd call it oppressive, but not "systematically discriminated against"? lumberjack_jeff Oct 2014 #66

Okay, I'll grant you that point. nomorenomore08 Oct 2014 #67

That's a fair point, but one that works both ways Major Nikon Oct 2014 #68

Systematic discrimination against men *by women* probably isn't possible other than in very specific nomorenomore08 Oct 2014 #69

Would you concede that education is one of those "specific cases"? n/t lumberjack_jeff Oct 2014 #70

Like a school district where the majority of administrators are women, discriminating against male nomorenomore08 Oct 2014 #73

how many "school administrators" educated you? nt lumberjack_jeff Oct 2014 #74

Replace "administrator" with "teacher," then. nomorenomore08 Oct 2014 #75

If that's true, then the reverse is even more true Major Nikon Oct 2014 #71

If you completely ignore all of history and "tradition." n/t nomorenomore08 Oct 2014 #72

I don't understand how 1950 is relevant to your assertion Major Nikon Oct 2014 #76

A hell of a lot of women *are* going along with it. That's the thing. nomorenomore08 Oct 2014 #77

Which is the same thing as saying lots of women like traditional gender roles Major Nikon Oct 2014 #78

it sounds that you actually like traditional gender roles - and so, excuse the enforcement of them. bettyellen Oct 2014 #79

Assumptions are the mother of all fuckups, which also explains a lot Major Nikon Oct 2014 #80

I guess you could feel that way if you don't get around much. Traditional roles are rapidly dying bettyellen Oct 2014 #81

I get around enough not to rely on anecdotal evidence and biased perceptions Major Nikon Oct 2014 #82

Dad as primary earner is a dying breed- down half in 30 years to just 20% bettyellen Oct 2014 #83

That's a different dataset Major Nikon Oct 2014 #84

LOL, anything else you can think of to deny that women actually like working and or deserve to be as bettyellen Oct 2014 #85

Strange how you think I'm the one with the sore spot on the subject Major Nikon Oct 2014 #87

Seemed to me you had a pretty well reasoned point... Veilex Oct 2014 #88

his point is all women "deserve it" because we don't all vote progressively enough. you would have bettyellen Oct 2014 #95

My point wasn't even within a cab ride and that is NOT my quote Major Nikon Nov 2014 #99

nonsense, you repeatedly assert that if women wanted things any other way, they'd have voted for it bettyellen Nov 2014 #100

Point to the post where I wrote your quoted text Major Nikon Nov 2014 #101

Nonsense, you imply it all the time. Sorry- you cannot post making excuses for regressive bullshit bettyellen Nov 2014 #105

You cannot continue to dishonestly spread catty rumors Major Nikon Nov 2014 #106

Seems to be a pretty good validation of your OP Major Nikon Nov 2014 #102

Indeed. Veilex Nov 2014 #103

I'm so sorry you can't handle the conversation without having emotional issues- bettyellen Oct 2014 #89

This is why I use mansplaining exactly how it is meant = as a conversation ENDER Tuesday Afternoon Oct 2014 #91

Yeah, that was classic gaslighting.... and I am sure they would argue that gaslighting is something bettyellen Oct 2014 #92

... lol ... I can see it now ... Tuesday Afternoon Oct 2014 #93

It's fucking hilarious that anyone would claim that women do not want equal pay or opportunity bettyellen Oct 2014 #94

patience of Job. You have it. eom. Tuesday Afternoon Oct 2014 #96

When asked, more women than men respond that time off is more important than money lumberjack_jeff Nov 2014 #97

empowerment is nothing without equal opportunity and pay- neither of which exists bettyellen Nov 2014 #98

fundamentally nonsense. lumberjack_jeff Nov 2014 #104

+1 Veilex Feb 2015 #141

For race, yes. Gender, not so much. Major Nikon Oct 2014 #52

I see the distinction you're trying to make, but I don't think raw numbers tell the whole story. nomorenomore08 Oct 2014 #56

You see it everywhere from school board, to city council to the presidency. lumberjack_jeff Oct 2014 #60

Actually it means exactly that Major Nikon Oct 2014 #61

"I don't really think women's interests will be better served with more Michelle Bachmanns and less nomorenomore08 Oct 2014 #63

How can you be so sure? Major Nikon Oct 2014 #64

To be fair, I think she was referring to "sexism" in a systematic - not individual - sense. nomorenomore08 Oct 2014 #46

I'm not so sure Major Nikon Oct 2014 #50

DU has become a cesspool for fake feminists. Darkhawk32 Oct 2014 #86

This message was self-deleted by its author radicalliberal Nov 2014 #107

I wouldn't go to that extent. Veilex Nov 2014 #110

Post removed Post removed Oct 2014 #90

I dared vdogg Nov 2014 #108

You can't. lumberjack_jeff Nov 2014 #109

And that silencing of dissent is another of the issues I take... Veilex Nov 2014 #111

Message auto-removed Name removed Dec 2014 #128

The comic book pinup shirt fiasco. ProudToBeBlueInRhody Nov 2014 #112

Post removed Post removed Nov 2014 #113

So, I posted a video, and the response I got... well, I should say it was surprising, but it wasn't Veilex Nov 2014 #114

".......in the men's rights group here" ProudToBeBlueInRhody Nov 2014 #115

I suspect the vast majority of that alerter's alerts do get ignored Major Nikon Nov 2014 #116

This one was alerted as well FBaggins Nov 2014 #117

Thanks for the heads up! Veilex Nov 2014 #119

alerted... again ProdigalJunkMail Nov 2014 #118

Thanks for posting this. Veilex Nov 2014 #120

i definitely choose amused ProdigalJunkMail Nov 2014 #121

Agreed Veilex Nov 2014 #122

"post stalking?" Never happens in the Gungeon. Eleanors38 Nov 2014 #123

This would certainly be my first experience with it. Veilex Nov 2014 #124

Get a star and make full use of the jury blacklist. lumberjack_jeff Dec 2014 #126

"it seems like you're doing okay" - Indeed Veilex Dec 2014 #127

Atticus Finch is now the bad guy Major Nikon Dec 2014 #125

If you are a man and are raped, deep down you really liked it Major Nikon Jan 2015 #129

So agresiously wrong its ridiculous... Veilex Jan 2015 #130

The actions of some of the gender warriors betray any sort of movement towards equality Major Nikon Jan 2015 #131

Indeed. Veilex Jan 2015 #132

Here's another one... Veilex Jan 2015 #133

It is obvious that most of the traffic on this forum is from people looking for something to alert. lumberjack_jeff Jan 2015 #134

"people looking for something to alert" - Indeed Veilex Jan 2015 #135

The irony is that this is a protected group, yet the standard of conduct is higher. lumberjack_jeff Jan 2015 #138

"But whatever you do, don't call it bigotry." Veilex Jan 2015 #139

... Major Nikon Jan 2015 #137

And again... Veilex Jan 2015 #136

... Major Nikon Feb 2015 #140