Men's Group

Major Nikon

(36,900 posts)

31. Here's the problem with "historically disadvantaged group"

Mon Feb 3, 2014, 11:42 PM

Feb 2014

While it's certainly true that 100 years ago, women in many states were denied the right to vote, that historical reality no more affects women today than men. You can't say that about other "historically disadvantaged" groups as many of those disadvantages are generational. As far as gender disadvantage is concerned, the only thing relevant is what is happening right now. Everyone has a mother and if your mother was disadvantaged, so were you regardless of what plumbing you were born with. You can't reasonably look at it a bit like racism because those two things are just not the same. When it comes to gender discrimination, double standards just don't cut it if you value gender parity. What's good for the goose is what's good for the gander and vise versa. Every single civil rights law we have cuts both ways when it comes to gender. There's a good reason for that.

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If Misandry DOES exist, it might look like this: [View all] Bonobo Jan 2014 OP

Hate of a gender is an equal opportunity sport Major Nikon Jan 2014 #1

It must be difficult Bonobo Jan 2014 #2

I cannot understand why so many women hate penises. In_The_Wind Jan 2014 #3

The excerpted quote out of context noamnety Jan 2014 #4

Then one has nothing to do with the other. In_The_Wind Jan 2014 #5

I read the whole thing Major Nikon Jan 2014 #6

*** Warren DeMontague Jan 2014 #7

Hey hey ... This Sucks ... hey hey ho ho! In_The_Wind Jan 2014 #8

I'm confused Warren DeMontague Jan 2014 #9

whoops In_The_Wind Jan 2014 #10

It's all good. Warren DeMontague Jan 2014 #11

lol In_The_Wind Jan 2014 #12

I totally resemble that remark. Warren DeMontague Jan 2014 #13

!!! Major Nikon Jan 2014 #14

OMG! I've never seen one that BIG! In_The_Wind Jan 2014 #15

.|. Major Nikon Jan 2014 #16

The drawbridge is a work of art. In_The_Wind Jan 2014 #17

I think that was the idea Major Nikon Jan 2014 #18

There is now another HoF thread declaring that short hair IS a political statement Doctor_J Jan 2014 #19

It's not for lack of bread. Warren DeMontague Jan 2014 #20

True, albeit 50 years behind the power curve Major Nikon Jan 2014 #21

I'm sorry, I know this stuff upsets you but it just doesn't ping my radar at all. nomorenomore08 Feb 2014 #22

OK, then answer this question honestly: Bonobo Feb 2014 #23

Would the person be accused of misogyny? Sure. Would the initial comment have been deserved? nomorenomore08 Feb 2014 #24

Not what I meant. Bonobo Feb 2014 #25

"Men are swiftly accused of murderous misogynistic creepy disgusting rage and hatred." Okay, I can nomorenomore08 Feb 2014 #26

So you say it is unjust, but not that high on the scale. Bonobo Feb 2014 #27

No argument. I think we're closer on this issue than we both think sometimes. nomorenomore08 Feb 2014 #28

So I assume this post of yours was directed at women as well as men? RiffRandell Feb 2014 #29

If the shoe fits, yes, absolutely. Rudeness and incivility are certainly not unique to either gender nomorenomore08 Feb 2014 #30

It seemed to me that your point was what you stated in your post RiffRandell Feb 2014 #34

I think you understand me just fine. And whatever disagreements I may have had with people nomorenomore08 Feb 2014 #38

A few more words on the ridiculous "tone argument"... opiate69 Feb 2014 #36

You know what? I have no problem with that at all, honestly. nomorenomore08 Feb 2014 #39

Here's the problem with "historically disadvantaged group" Major Nikon Feb 2014 #31

Ask women how they feel about their place in the world. Obviously you'll get a variety of answers nomorenomore08 Feb 2014 #32

That's an argument against double standards, not for double standards Major Nikon Feb 2014 #33

Does anyone ask men how they feel "about their place in the world"? lumberjack_jeff Feb 2014 #35

No, indeed they have a word for men expressing their feelings about that. Bonobo Feb 2014 #37

There's a difference between arguing that men have problems too - and they *do*, self-evidently - nomorenomore08 Feb 2014 #41

I never heard anyone here blame it on Feminism. Never. Bonobo Feb 2014 #46

No disagreement. No problem. nomorenomore08 Feb 2014 #48

That's not what MRAs do Major Nikon Feb 2014 #47

Okay, maybe I'm judging them by the most extreme members. I should be a little more careful there. nomorenomore08 Feb 2014 #51

Which is also why it's not a good idea to judge feminists by their most extreme and vocal members Major Nikon Feb 2014 #53

Absolutely. I think Dworkin was a lunatic but that hardly motivates me to reject feminism generally. nomorenomore08 Feb 2014 #55

Y'know....there are people here who think calling Dworkin a lunatic.... ProudToBeBlueInRhody Feb 2014 #57

If I were to rub in their faces how much I despise a (like it or not) significant feminist figure - nomorenomore08 Feb 2014 #61

It is usually pushback from the widely accepted fact that Dworkin became a total kook ProudToBeBlueInRhody Feb 2014 #66

As I'm sure you'd agree, privilege is a complex, nuanced thing. I never meant to argue otherwise. nomorenomore08 Feb 2014 #40

I wouldn't agree with that at all Major Nikon Feb 2014 #42

Then maybe we both just see what we want to see. If you don't think you're "privileged" then I guess nomorenomore08 Feb 2014 #43

Do you believe men aren't aren't at any disadvantage in this society? Major Nikon Feb 2014 #45

How exactly do sexual violence or lack of representation "prove female privilege"? nomorenomore08 Feb 2014 #49

"The majority of rape victims are women" Major Nikon Feb 2014 #52

You're right, we can both cherry-pick stats all we want. But the most obvious conclusion is that nomorenomore08 Feb 2014 #54

It's the easiest segment of the problem to control Major Nikon Feb 2014 #56

Whatever you call it, the important thing is admitting there's a problem. nomorenomore08 Feb 2014 #62

If there was one definition of the word, then it'd be possible to answer your question unequivocally lumberjack_jeff Feb 2014 #44

I guess if nothing else, you'll never be a woman, and neither will I. nomorenomore08 Feb 2014 #50

So is it misandry to wish that a man's penis would shrivel up and fall off? Bonobo Feb 2014 #58

Okay, I don't like jokes insulting people's genitals, generally speaking. Male or female. nomorenomore08 Feb 2014 #63

Really? Is that REALLY "Misandry"? Bonobo Feb 2014 #67

Dictionaries have a well-known patriarchal bias. lumberjack_jeff Feb 2014 #68

Now you guys are just outright putting words in my mouth... nomorenomore08 Feb 2014 #70

On re-read, I can see how it seems that way. lumberjack_jeff Feb 2014 #79

"You want me to accept that a horny guy that tries to learn pickup techniques hates women?" nomorenomore08 Feb 2014 #69

I didn't say you said it. Bonobo Feb 2014 #72

I just don't think an insulting blog post rates very high on the radar compared with, say, rape nomorenomore08 Feb 2014 #73

Determined to paint you as a villain? Bonobo Feb 2014 #74

That's not what I think. And I don't think many HOF members actually believe that either. nomorenomore08 Feb 2014 #75

For me, it's not an issue of "pinging my radar" or "hurting me personally" Bonobo Feb 2014 #76

I never said any of those things. Nor have I seen any posts saying so, at least not outright. nomorenomore08 Feb 2014 #77

OK, so what aspect of the PUA thing means they don't recognize the right to say no? Bonobo Feb 2014 #78

I say that the most persistent form of male privilege is the presumption that we have our own agency lumberjack_jeff Feb 2014 #82

Depends on the case, I suppose. If that exchange were between two people aready in a relationship nomorenomore08 Feb 2014 #83

Well at least we don't have to put words in your mouth any more. lumberjack_jeff Feb 2014 #80

Only true if we accept that privilege is entirely subjective. lumberjack_jeff Feb 2014 #59

If privilege were subjective as some suggest, the entire concept would be worthless Major Nikon Feb 2014 #60

So you can objectively prove that women in America are "privileged" over men much the same way nomorenomore08 Feb 2014 #64

Does the fact that blacks are incarcerated at a rate 6x whites reflect white privilege? lumberjack_jeff Feb 2014 #65

So you're convinced that women have (nearly) all the advantages, and men (nearly) all the nomorenomore08 Feb 2014 #71

Not balanced? lumberjack_jeff Feb 2014 #81

Yeah, I overstated things a bit. Didn't really mean to put words in your mouth or anything. nomorenomore08 Feb 2014 #84