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thucythucy

(8,742 posts)
28. Agreed. The patriarchy, however defined, should be consigned
Sat Dec 21, 2013, 12:35 PM
Dec 2013

to the scrap heap of history.

As for its disproportionate impact on men, I notice you tease out US military deaths in these conflicts, which tends I think to distort the whole picture. In WWII, for instance, the US, of all the major biligerants, was essentially untouched by invasion or bombardment of its homeland. If you include civilian casualties as well as military, and include the other major actors in that sordid drama: Germany, the Soviet Union, the United Kingdom, China, Japan, as well as nations that were occupied or fought over--most especially Poland, Korea, Indochina, Mayalsia, Burma, I think you'll find the gender disparity among casualties overall is smaller, in some instances much smaller. And of course, of the twelve million or so victims of the various Nazi extermination campaigns, I would say the disparity probably is reduced to zero or close to zero.

And if you include colonialism as a subset of militarism, well, casualties there are pretty much impossible to calculate, so in terms of gender it becomes much more difficult to discuss. For instance, roughly two million Vietnamese peasants starved to death due to the famine inflicted on that country by the French in the early to mid 1950s. I would imagine many if not most of those deaths were of women and children (and elderly). The mass exterminations of people in the "Belgian Congo" at the turn of the 20th century, the famines inflicted upon India (which at the time included Pakistan and Bengladesh) by British colonialists expropriating the land from peasant farmers for use to grow cotton, indigo and tea for the British market, all of these had mortality rates that probably exceeded most of the wars we regard as "history," and all of them I would bet inflicted disportionate mortality on children, women, elderly people, people with disabilities. Even in the US, the "counter insurgency" campaigns against Native Americans usually didn't distinguish very much between men, women, or children. Smallpox infected blankets target everyone.

Speaking of which, military conflict often brings in its wake epidemics such as plague, emphysema, cholera. During the Thirty Years War the military casualities were actually quite small compared to the mortality caused by disease brought on by famine and the march of the armies hither and yon through central Europe. The emphysema epidemic after WWI--a direct result I would argue of that conflict--hit children and the elderly paticularly hard. Old men, old women, women in general, boys and girls. Then too, the "starvation blockade" of Germany of 1914-19 hit the home front much worse than the soldiers. Indeed, people at home were urged to tighten their belts so the fighting men could be fed. I even have a vague memory of reading how the plague took out more people during the Peloponnesian War than the actual fighting between Athens and Sparta. So that's a whole other cost of militarism that must be examined, if we're to talk about who suffers.

But whatever our differences, I think we agree on the fundamentals.

Best wishes.

PS: please pardon any spelling mistakes. Couldn't get the damn spell check to work, and I'm too lazy to use a dictionary.

this same attitude was displayed in the recent hof thread Doctor_J Nov 2013 #1
In any movement there is that group whose worst fear is that... TreasonousBastard Nov 2013 #2
"In ANY movement..." thucythucy Dec 2013 #13
Yeah, any movement... TreasonousBastard Dec 2013 #16
Unfortunately the patriarchy is not dead for men Major Nikon Nov 2013 #3
Why call it Patriarchy though? Bonobo Nov 2013 #4
Because people need to understand what it really is Major Nikon Nov 2013 #5
It is the premise underlying the current porn discussions. lumberjack_jeff Nov 2013 #8
I think the actual underlying premise goes a bit deeper Major Nikon Dec 2013 #10
I disagree with the assertion that thucythucy Dec 2013 #14
What better way to protect than through control? Major Nikon Dec 2013 #15
In terms of patriarchy vs. matriarchy thucythucy Dec 2013 #18
As a conceptual frame, it's not all that far off. lumberjack_jeff Dec 2013 #21
Why do you think that all the successful human societies lumberjack_jeff Dec 2013 #17
I don't know. thucythucy Dec 2013 #19
Until quite recently, men have been largely disposable. lumberjack_jeff Dec 2013 #20
But in that case they're "protected" at the expense of any possible freedom or self-determination. nomorenomore08 Dec 2013 #22
Self-determination has historically been in short supply. lumberjack_jeff Dec 2013 #23
No argument. "Freedom" is always relative - in many cases very, VERY relative. n/t nomorenomore08 Dec 2013 #24
I'm not sure I understand these distinctions you seem to be making. thucythucy Dec 2013 #25
It's not really about what practical value the patriarchy has anymore Major Nikon Dec 2013 #26
Agreed. The patriarchy, however defined, should be consigned thucythucy Dec 2013 #28
You're right to a point. lumberjack_jeff Dec 2013 #27
Well, we can go round and round on this. thucythucy Dec 2013 #29
Talking with you about this has made me think about terminology. lumberjack_jeff Dec 2013 #30
You're assuming that equality has thucythucy Dec 2013 #31
For every 3 women enrolled in college, 2 men are. lumberjack_jeff Dec 2013 #33
It IS an achievement, considering thucythucy Dec 2013 #35
I did create a progressive men's group to address a variety of issues. lumberjack_jeff Dec 2013 #36
Do you actually read the pages to which you link? thucythucy Dec 2013 #37
Have a Merry Christmas and we'll talk again after the holidays. lumberjack_jeff Dec 2013 #39
Too late to wish you a merry Christmas, (I was away from all computers!!!!) thucythucy Dec 2013 #41
It was wonderful. lumberjack_jeff Dec 2013 #42
Glad to hear it. I also had a wonderful holiday. thucythucy Jan 2014 #43
When women were underrepresented in college is was most certainly a crisis. lumberjack_jeff Jan 2014 #44
Once again you quote a small portion of the link you provide: thucythucy Jan 2014 #45
In 1970, a smaller gap was a huge problem. lumberjack_jeff Jan 2014 #46
I'd have to see the raw figures thucythucy Jan 2014 #47
As a first part of a reading list thucythucy Jan 2014 #48
I've read most of it. lumberjack_jeff Jan 2014 #49
It's not hard to find where the bias comes in with AAUW Major Nikon Jan 2014 #50
Even conceding all that, thucythucy Jan 2014 #51
And how much of that is due to illegal discrimination? Major Nikon Jan 2014 #53
agree. nt lumberjack_jeff Jan 2014 #54
So you disagree with the raw data thucythucy Jan 2014 #52
The demographic trend of an increasing percentage of young people going to college... lumberjack_jeff Jan 2014 #55
So it's the "splashing sounds" thucythucy Jan 2014 #56
I wanted to add something else. thucythucy Dec 2013 #32
The need for victimization intervention for men is irrelevant. Political will is nonexistent. lumberjack_jeff Dec 2013 #34
The need for intervention and support for male victims is not "irrelevant." thucythucy Dec 2013 #38
The need is irrelevant. lumberjack_jeff Dec 2013 #40
"Dead" seems just a wee bit optimistic at this time LadyHawkAZ Nov 2013 #6
+1 nomorenomore08 Nov 2013 #7
I agree Major Nikon Nov 2013 #9
This part here: thucythucy Dec 2013 #11
I just don't see where she's coming from at all. Seems an incredibly selective view of things. nomorenomore08 Dec 2013 #12
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