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lumberjack_jeff

(33,224 posts)

73. I'm not even sure about "parity".

Thu Dec 12, 2013, 06:30 PM

Dec 2013

Mutual fairness, recognition, consideration and reciprocity would be a good, albeit ambitious, starting point.

Do I want women to experience 50% of workplace deaths? If I'm honest, I'd say not really and I think almost everyone would agree with me. The natural consequence of this conscious choice is that women avoid the truly dangerous jobs and will therefore accept the pay that goes along with safe, engaging and satisfying ones.

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Found on Radfem website [View all] Bonobo Dec 2013 OP

I remember back in the 70's radfems tried shitting on stay at home moms Major Nikon Dec 2013 #1

As I've maintained... opiate69 Dec 2013 #2

Reads like some sort of weird insider foreign language to me. nt rrneck Dec 2013 #3

It does not compute. TreasonousBastard Dec 2013 #4

The women shown in those photos Bonobo Dec 2013 #5

I wouldn't jump a fence to get into Lollapallooza Warren DeMontague Dec 2013 #6

I once did security at the Newport Folk Festival ProudToBeBlueInRhody Dec 2013 #9

Speaking of Bob Dylan. Warren DeMontague Dec 2013 #10

Very little more sense... TreasonousBastard Dec 2013 #7

I think that's the point Major Nikon Dec 2013 #8

I know it's fun to laugh at the crazies, but what does any of this really prove? nomorenomore08 Dec 2013 #11

For me, it raises a question. Bonobo Dec 2013 #12

I honestly don't know. Maybe they think those "other" feminists aren't feminist enough. nomorenomore08 Dec 2013 #13

Speaking of good feminist messages, here's one I saw today. Bonobo Dec 2013 #14

That is a good message RE: double standards. We're all human, we should all be treated (mostly) nomorenomore08 Dec 2013 #15

As the object of their caricature-ization (?) lumberjack_jeff Dec 2013 #20

I agree that that kind of treatment is over-the-top and unfair. Especially when plenty of genuine nomorenomore08 Dec 2013 #22

Hate is not laughable Major Nikon Dec 2013 #16

I certainly didn't mean to imply that those cited in the OP have anything to do with genuine social nomorenomore08 Dec 2013 #17

Sounds a bit contradictory Major Nikon Dec 2013 #19

That is a valid point. I guess I just don't see cis-males as a socially disadvantaged group nomorenomore08 Dec 2013 #23

So how would you quantify cis-females as a socially disadvantaged group? Major Nikon Dec 2013 #24

"Couldn't be more different"? How so? African-Americans (and others) have been historically nomorenomore08 Dec 2013 #25

Race is generational, gender isn't Major Nikon Dec 2013 #26

We can measure racial disadvantage experienced by African or Native Americans in many ways. lumberjack_jeff Dec 2013 #29

Far more likely to be sexually assaulted. More likely to be killed or seriously injured by domestic nomorenomore08 Dec 2013 #31

Blacks experience more violent victimization than whites. lumberjack_jeff Dec 2013 #32

So you actually think women are privileged over men in this society? Seriously? nomorenomore08 Dec 2013 #33

Then you should be able to quantify your basis Major Nikon Dec 2013 #35

spluttering isn't an argument. lumberjack_jeff Dec 2013 #36

I know it's not as simple as "all men are advantaged" and "all women are disadvantaged" nomorenomore08 Dec 2013 #40

I'm seeing what I experience. lumberjack_jeff Dec 2013 #43

Yeah, it's really not a safe (or fair) world for anyone. I'll agree with that much. n/t nomorenomore08 Dec 2013 #44

"You have ample reasons" Inkfreak Dec 2013 #53

Why narrow the scope so substantially if you're not cherry picking? Major Nikon Dec 2013 #34

I guess the rebuttal would be that women are far more likely than men to be killed or nomorenomore08 Dec 2013 #41

I would never claim that it isn't Major Nikon Dec 2013 #42

Things *have* changed, obviously. I just wish cultural attitudes didn't lag so far behind legal nomorenomore08 Dec 2013 #45

You are still conflating gender discrimination with race discrimination Major Nikon Dec 2013 #49

Okay, maybe I exaggerated a bit. But they're certainly the loudest at least. nomorenomore08 Dec 2013 #51

There's also plenty of women who don't feel they have been discriminated against Major Nikon Dec 2013 #52

Again, any given experience is not necessarily universal. And yes, it *should* be about nomorenomore08 Dec 2013 #54

I'm not even sure about "parity". lumberjack_jeff Dec 2013 #73

So you think that entirely (or at least mostly) accounts for the pay gap? Consider me skeptical... nomorenomore08 Dec 2013 #75

It's not a matter of "think". It does. lumberjack_jeff Dec 2013 #76

Interesting... I do think there's probably a good deal of truth to what you're saying. nomorenomore08 Dec 2013 #77

The status quo doesn't usually happen by conscious design. lumberjack_jeff Dec 2013 #78

I think the way you just explained things is basically accurate, in a lot of respects. nomorenomore08 Dec 2013 #79

I agree strongly with your last sentence. lumberjack_jeff Dec 2013 #50

It may be distinct, but it isn't the only one that matters. lumberjack_jeff Dec 2013 #46

Like I said, cultural attitudes lagging behind legal realities. It's a significant problem no matter nomorenomore08 Dec 2013 #48

The "radfems" at my university considered some of the most prominent feminists of the 20th Century Sen. Walter Sobchak Dec 2013 #37

"Jerking off", "jacking off", "getting your rocks off", etc. Bonobo Dec 2013 #38

Actually, if you can stomach it, I might recommend going to the source. nomorenomore08 Dec 2013 #47

I am considering it, thanks. nt Bonobo Dec 2013 #57

Near as I can tell... TreasonousBastard Dec 2013 #39

You mentioned something in another thread about labels lumberjack_jeff Dec 2013 #18

I basically agree. And I think the whole issue of who is or isn't a "real" feminist is hopelessly nomorenomore08 Dec 2013 #21

You are 100% correct. For instance, I get accused of being "anti-Feminist" for criticizing Dworkin Warren DeMontague Dec 2013 #27

I was imprecise. lumberjack_jeff Dec 2013 #28

Okay. I think I'm clearer now. nomorenomore08 Dec 2013 #30

No transphobia? Warren DeMontague Dec 2013 #55

This message was self-deleted by its author Bonobo Dec 2013 #56

Let me clarify- I don't support reading things into people's words that they haven't explicitly said Warren DeMontague Dec 2013 #58

True. Sometimes a cigar IS just a cigar Bonobo Dec 2013 #59

I don't think very many are going to come out and say it Major Nikon Dec 2013 #60

Sometimes it's not that hard to see. Warren DeMontague Dec 2013 #61

Is that the elephant in the room? Behind the Aegis Dec 2013 #62

Nah, this is. Warren DeMontague Dec 2013 #63

Sorry, the gay just kicked up in me.... Behind the Aegis Dec 2013 #64

Blame Banksy Warren DeMontague Dec 2013 #65

Spank Banksy? Behind the Aegis Dec 2013 #66

WE WOULD IF WE COULD FIND THAT NAUGHTY RASCAL! Warren DeMontague Dec 2013 #67

Interesting to note; some people REALLY don't like it when certain aquatic fowl are mentioned Warren DeMontague Dec 2013 #68

It must really make them quackers! Behind the Aegis Dec 2013 #69

I know, I just don't appreciate Warren DeMontague Dec 2013 #70

It ruffles my feathers too. Behind the Aegis Dec 2013 #71

Struck a nerve lumberjack_jeff Dec 2013 #72

The pushback going on is laughable ProudToBeBlueInRhody Dec 2013 #74

They pretend as if I am attacking Feminism and that is their biggest lie. Bonobo Dec 2013 #80

Well, there's a lot of protesting about smearing people they supposedly don't know or care about ProudToBeBlueInRhody Dec 2013 #81

The only one I know about got the boot sometime back Major Nikon Dec 2013 #82

The cusswords used are the ones we agree upon. lumberjack_jeff Dec 2013 #83