Men's Group

lumberjack_jeff

(33,224 posts)

8. It is the premise underlying the current porn discussions.

Sat Nov 30, 2013, 07:29 PM

Nov 2013

Why is porn bad? Because it exploits women.

What about gay or lesbian porn? No one concerned about the issue appears to have ever considered that question.

Protecting women (even at the cost of their own self-determination) is patriarchy. Or, as Noam Chomsky said in the interview posted the other day; "porn is like child abuse".

I've said before that I'm ambivalent toward porn and if someone is interested in making a non-heteronormative (which in practice means non-patriarchal) argument about it... I'm listening.

The patriarchy is still here, the convenient parts are firmly entrenched. Saying that it's gone is like saying that poverty has ended based on a review of your personal checkbook.

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56 replies

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Highlight:

Yes, Patriarchy Is Dead; the Feminists Prove It [View all] Bonobo Nov 2013 OP

this same attitude was displayed in the recent hof thread Doctor_J Nov 2013 #1

In any movement there is that group whose worst fear is that... TreasonousBastard Nov 2013 #2

"In ANY movement..." thucythucy Dec 2013 #13

Yeah, any movement... TreasonousBastard Dec 2013 #16

Unfortunately the patriarchy is not dead for men Major Nikon Nov 2013 #3

Why call it Patriarchy though? Bonobo Nov 2013 #4

Because people need to understand what it really is Major Nikon Nov 2013 #5

It is the premise underlying the current porn discussions. lumberjack_jeff Nov 2013 #8

I think the actual underlying premise goes a bit deeper Major Nikon Dec 2013 #10

I disagree with the assertion that thucythucy Dec 2013 #14

What better way to protect than through control? Major Nikon Dec 2013 #15

In terms of patriarchy vs. matriarchy thucythucy Dec 2013 #18

As a conceptual frame, it's not all that far off. lumberjack_jeff Dec 2013 #21

Why do you think that all the successful human societies lumberjack_jeff Dec 2013 #17

I don't know. thucythucy Dec 2013 #19

Until quite recently, men have been largely disposable. lumberjack_jeff Dec 2013 #20

But in that case they're "protected" at the expense of any possible freedom or self-determination. nomorenomore08 Dec 2013 #22

Self-determination has historically been in short supply. lumberjack_jeff Dec 2013 #23

No argument. "Freedom" is always relative - in many cases very, VERY relative. n/t nomorenomore08 Dec 2013 #24

I'm not sure I understand these distinctions you seem to be making. thucythucy Dec 2013 #25

It's not really about what practical value the patriarchy has anymore Major Nikon Dec 2013 #26

Agreed. The patriarchy, however defined, should be consigned thucythucy Dec 2013 #28

You're right to a point. lumberjack_jeff Dec 2013 #27

Well, we can go round and round on this. thucythucy Dec 2013 #29

Talking with you about this has made me think about terminology. lumberjack_jeff Dec 2013 #30

You're assuming that equality has thucythucy Dec 2013 #31

For every 3 women enrolled in college, 2 men are. lumberjack_jeff Dec 2013 #33

It IS an achievement, considering thucythucy Dec 2013 #35

I did create a progressive men's group to address a variety of issues. lumberjack_jeff Dec 2013 #36

Do you actually read the pages to which you link? thucythucy Dec 2013 #37

Have a Merry Christmas and we'll talk again after the holidays. lumberjack_jeff Dec 2013 #39

Too late to wish you a merry Christmas, (I was away from all computers!!!!) thucythucy Dec 2013 #41

It was wonderful. lumberjack_jeff Dec 2013 #42

Glad to hear it. I also had a wonderful holiday. thucythucy Jan 2014 #43

When women were underrepresented in college is was most certainly a crisis. lumberjack_jeff Jan 2014 #44

Once again you quote a small portion of the link you provide: thucythucy Jan 2014 #45

In 1970, a smaller gap was a huge problem. lumberjack_jeff Jan 2014 #46

I'd have to see the raw figures thucythucy Jan 2014 #47

As a first part of a reading list thucythucy Jan 2014 #48

I've read most of it. lumberjack_jeff Jan 2014 #49

It's not hard to find where the bias comes in with AAUW Major Nikon Jan 2014 #50

Even conceding all that, thucythucy Jan 2014 #51

And how much of that is due to illegal discrimination? Major Nikon Jan 2014 #53

agree. nt lumberjack_jeff Jan 2014 #54

So you disagree with the raw data thucythucy Jan 2014 #52

The demographic trend of an increasing percentage of young people going to college... lumberjack_jeff Jan 2014 #55

So it's the "splashing sounds" thucythucy Jan 2014 #56

I wanted to add something else. thucythucy Dec 2013 #32

The need for victimization intervention for men is irrelevant. Political will is nonexistent. lumberjack_jeff Dec 2013 #34

The need for intervention and support for male victims is not "irrelevant." thucythucy Dec 2013 #38

The need is irrelevant. lumberjack_jeff Dec 2013 #40

"Dead" seems just a wee bit optimistic at this time LadyHawkAZ Nov 2013 #6

+1 nomorenomore08 Nov 2013 #7

I agree Major Nikon Nov 2013 #9

This part here: thucythucy Dec 2013 #11

I just don't see where she's coming from at all. Seems an incredibly selective view of things. nomorenomore08 Dec 2013 #12