Latest Breaking News

Ace Acme

(1,464 posts)

82. The Distraction is Pertinent

Mon Dec 9, 2013, 07:21 PM

Dec 2013

... because doubts about the integrity and completeness of he "scientific" investigation of what happened at Ground Zero can certainly lend weight to wishes for more disclosure about other elements of the 9/11 investigations.

And "fully explained"? Shyam Sunder said in a public technical briefing that the visible collapse could not have been at free fall because free fall would require that there was no structural support. "There was structural resistance that was provided in this particular case. And you had a sequence of structural failures that had to take place. Everything was not instantaneous."

Later, of course he was forced to admit that there was a period of free fall in the collapse--which implies that the structural resistance was neutralized and everything WAS instantaneous.

Edit history

Please sign in to view edit histories.

Recommendations

0 members have recommended this reply (displayed in chronological order):

393 replies

= new reply since forum marked as read

Highlight:

9/11 Link To Saudi Arabia Is Topic Of 28 Redacted Pages In Government Report; Congressmen Push For R [View all] Indi Guy Dec 2013 OP

"Smirk." - xCommander AWOL Bush (R) & Dickie 'Five Military Deferments' Cheney (R) Berlum Dec 2013 #1

Imagine your buddies has unlimited loot... Jesus Malverde Dec 2013 #94

As long as we're talking about rich Muslims Ace Acme Dec 2013 #103

"The Muslim world" TroglodyteScholar Dec 2013 #105

I wasn't talking about the Muslim World. Ace Acme Dec 2013 #106

I must have misread your post... TroglodyteScholar Dec 2013 #109

I guess that just proves that, as I said, I don't get it. :>) Ace Acme Dec 2013 #114

An Arab Prince wrote the City of NY a check for $10MM Old and In the Way Dec 2013 #153

He's the one who was building the ground zero mosque, and he's been the #2 shareholder of NewsCorp. Zen Democrat Dec 2013 #177

Its all about the Benjamins and the Carlisle Connection warrant46 Dec 2013 #233

Hmmmmm. Seems like there's more there than one might imagine... Indi Guy Dec 2013 #245

Birds of a feather---- flock---- warrant46 Dec 2013 #247

Indeed. Here's an interesting article... Indi Guy Dec 2013 #249

These guys are obviously petrosexuals n/t eridani Dec 2013 #127

Still funny ^^^^This^^^^ Jesus Malverde Dec 2013 #237

What is on the recacted pages riverbendviewgal Dec 2013 #2

PNAC PNAC PNAC PNAC That is the document that spelled it out. And the bush crime family loudsue Dec 2013 #17

don't forget the Bin Ladens also! n/t wildbilln864 Dec 2013 #45

Zzactly. Bin Ladens are the biggest construction co. for the Saudi royal family. loudsue Dec 2013 #55

The bin Laden's that were partners with HW Bush in a militiary supply company - Carlyle? lark Dec 2013 #138

Bin Ladens were in town on 9/11 for a board meeting with Bush, Sr. and the Carlyle Group. Old and In the Way Dec 2013 #154

PNAC's Open LETTER TO CLINTON - Run-up to War Officially Began in 1998 _ a brief synopsis... Indi Guy Dec 2013 #175

The only media personality I recall discussing the Saudi Royals involvement VanillaRhapsody Dec 2013 #3

Larry King mainstreetonce Dec 2013 #18

No no no...that is NOT what I am talking about... VanillaRhapsody Dec 2013 #21

Yes it was Senator Graham... VanillaRhapsody Dec 2013 #23

Inquiring minds can't help but wonder who all are being protected in those redacted pages, indepat Dec 2013 #57

That's none of your business! Government business is government business, and none of yours! nt Ace Acme Dec 2013 #84

The bidness of America is bidness and the bidness of government is to nurture and indepat Dec 2013 #98

Republicon OCCULTISM works to keep America in the dark about 9/11 Berlum Dec 2013 #112

As soon as the FIRST plane hit, huh? How very interesting. Raksha Dec 2013 #311

New to me, too. Ace Acme Dec 2013 #315

You might be able to check mainstreetonce Dec 2013 #340

Bush was protecting his relationship with the Saudi princes? Baitball Blogger Dec 2013 #4

No, just one big coincidence. Old and In the Way Dec 2013 #58

Actually, the airspace had just reopened KamaAina Dec 2013 #76

Actually, I think you are wrong Old and In the Way Dec 2013 #248

If I'm wrong, the 9/11 Commission was, too KamaAina Dec 2013 #251

Well, fu k them. Old and In the Way Dec 2013 #252

Please see... Indi Guy Dec 2013 #253

...So many 'coincidences' surrounding the entire matter. Indi Guy Dec 2013 #223

And don't forget that 1 plane was supposed to hit the white house LiberalArkie Dec 2013 #377

Pretty sure it would have been the Capitol. Old and In the Way Dec 2013 #378

+1 Blue_Tires Dec 2013 #134

Powell's inability to convince the UN should have clued Americans in. Ace Acme Dec 2013 #155

During those days there was an atmosphere of fear among politicians & journalists,... Indi Guy Dec 2013 #217

I think the framework can be found in the PNAC documents, and the implementation Old and In the Way Dec 2013 #156

likely grahamhgreen Dec 2013 #332

Don't question authority Ezlivin Dec 2013 #5

Exactly billhicks76 Dec 2013 #12

The so so-called "Truthers" generally claim that the Saudis didn't do 9-11 cpwm17 Dec 2013 #20

It seems you're not interested in what really happened, not interested in government secrecy, Ace Acme Dec 2013 #22

Very Eloquent billhicks76 Dec 2013 #52

Actually those who are seeking the truth about 9/11 Ezlivin Dec 2013 #26

I don't believe in any "official story" cpwm17 Dec 2013 #41

Nonsense! a truther(as I am) merely knows we were lied to and wants the truth! n/t wildbilln864 Dec 2013 #46

+1 simple as that BelgianMadCow Dec 2013 #48

I'm not a truther and I know we were lied to cpwm17 Dec 2013 #49

And it seems that all you're interested in is truthers being wrong. Ace Acme Dec 2013 #56

you're correct that you're not a truther.... wildbilln864 Dec 2013 #81

thank you wildbill barbtries Dec 2013 #141

A "Truther" comes with a whole lot of baggage cpwm17 Dec 2013 #168

On Planet Cpwm, a "truther" comes with a whole lot of baggage Ace Acme Dec 2013 #169

yada yada, blah blah! thanks for your opinion... wildbilln864 Dec 2013 #173

Doesn't it raise your suspicions when emotional rhetoric is developed which is intended to... Indi Guy Dec 2013 #176

They are self described as "truthers" cpwm17 Dec 2013 #178

I don't believe you are correct. Indi Guy Dec 2013 #179

Visit the Creative Speculation Group cpwm17 Dec 2013 #180

I'm familiar with that forum and also with... Indi Guy Dec 2013 #181

911Truth.org loses all credibility when they promote nonsense cpwm17 Dec 2013 #191

Really? Indi Guy Dec 2013 #192

Obviously they are promoting demolitions of the buildings cpwm17 Dec 2013 #193

That's all very interesting, but it doesn't answer my question. Indi Guy Dec 2013 #194

Gravity pulls towards the center of mass of an object cpwm17 Dec 2013 #195

Gravity pulls toward the center of mass of the system, i.e., the earth. Ace Acme Dec 2013 #197

That's not what I experienced at all. AZCat Dec 2013 #201

Most structural engineers were surprised when the towers fell, says NOVA. Ace Acme Dec 2013 #211

That's not my experience. AZCat Dec 2013 #218

Maybe the engineers you've talked to are afraid to challenge groupthink? Ace Acme Dec 2013 #224

Engineers are no better than any other group of people - maybe worse. AZCat Dec 2013 #256

40 PhD engineers in AE911Truth are calling for new investigations. Ace Acme Dec 2013 #258

Lots, probably. AZCat Dec 2013 #260

Probably. IOW, you can't name anyone. Ace Acme Dec 2013 #261

It's not really that interesting a question for me. AZCat Dec 2013 #263

Right, you're more comfortable with your evidence-free assumptions. Ace Acme Dec 2013 #265

Actually, it's those versed in "truther" pseudo-science William Seger Dec 2013 #202

Nobody says that buildings injured at the top should topple from the bottom. Ace Acme Dec 2013 #208

LOL, when I was a little kid... William Seger Dec 2013 #214

You have changed the subject from your false claim Ace Acme Dec 2013 #215

Bullshit William Seger Dec 2013 #216

You said in post 202 "toppled over like trees". Trees topple from the bottom. Ace Acme Dec 2013 #219

I respect your stance on the events of that day... Indi Guy Dec 2013 #199

The towers looked nothing like controlled demolitions cpwm17 Dec 2013 #203

I think you've got things a little backward here. Indi Guy Dec 2013 #205

It's bat-shit crazy to believe that the buildings were taken down by demolitions cpwm17 Dec 2013 #207

Why do you think access was impossible? Ace Acme Dec 2013 #212

I have made no claims other than to question yours,... Indi Guy Dec 2013 #213

Your take on the physical evidence is radically dogmatic... mallard Dec 2013 #325

So it appears that you disagree with the OP and Sen. Bob Graham cpwm17 Dec 2013 #331

Just a couple of things for now... Indi Guy Dec 2013 #333

Neither of those is that surprising, really. AZCat Dec 2013 #338

For the time being... Indi Guy Dec 2013 #339

Are you arguing that materials can be determined from colors in photos? AZCat Dec 2013 #350

So you are claiming that Professors of Engineering don't know steel when they see it? Ace Acme Dec 2013 #345

Anybody can be mistaken, no matter what the qualifications. AZCat Dec 2013 #353

What about melting of girders do you not understand? Do you think there were lead girders? Ace Acme Dec 2013 #355

Narratives are one thing, hard evidence another. AZCat Dec 2013 #356

Indeed they are. Which is why NIST's narrative is an unacceptable substitute for hard evidence. nt Ace Acme Dec 2013 #362

Gosh, if only they had hard evidence. AZCat Dec 2013 #364

The 10,000 pages contain only a one-paragraph narration of the propagation of the collapse Ace Acme Dec 2013 #366

It has more than that. AZCat Dec 2013 #367

Oh, so it's two paragraphs? It's been a while since I've looked at it. nt Ace Acme Dec 2013 #370

At the link you posted... Indi Guy Dec 2013 #373

The Scientific Method Ace Acme Dec 2013 #375

Thank you for responding. Indi Guy Dec 2013 #376

Large aircraft struck the towers. The towers fell down. Ace Acme Dec 2013 #343

It appears that you don't read very carefully. Indi Guy Dec 2013 #347

It appears that you mistook my response to cpwm for a response to you. Ace Acme Dec 2013 #349

I owe you an apology. Indi Guy Dec 2013 #351

Not at all. You made an understandable error. The non-indented posts are confusing. nt Ace Acme Dec 2013 #357

There's a way to view sub-threads that shows indenting. AZCat Dec 2013 #358

There was nothing chaotic about the towers' collapse. The order is the surprising thing. Ace Acme Dec 2013 #209

Well stated. Also, although it's obvious that WTC7 fell virtually at free fall speed as well... Indi Guy Dec 2013 #221

Too many advocates of 9/11 conspiracy theories make repulsive (and unconvincing) claims of proof. nt Ace Acme Dec 2013 #225

Yes; and on the other side of the coin... Indi Guy Dec 2013 #226

And the twenty-two witnesses who heard explosions and saw the cracks they caused Th1onein Dec 2013 #230

That is remarkable testimony BelgianMadCow Dec 2013 #232

This is interesting... Indi Guy Dec 2013 #235

Very Interesting thanks!...nt Jesus Malverde Dec 2013 #240

Checkout... Indi Guy Dec 2013 #241

I wonder why there is no similar august body of architects, physic experts, and engineers Old and In the Way Dec 2013 #243

Common sense demands that... Indi Guy Dec 2013 #244

It's common sense to ask that the government deliver the objectives of the reports. Ace Acme Dec 2013 #246

From everything I've read... Indi Guy Dec 2013 #250

Most of the relevant professional organizations agree with the conclusions of the NIST. AZCat Dec 2013 #257

Failing to dispute the conclusions is hardly agreeing with the conclusions. Ace Acme Dec 2013 #259

I'm not going to bet, because it's not that interesting a consideration. AZCat Dec 2013 #262

I don't need to know anything about dynamic loading. Ace Acme Dec 2013 #264

You don't? Then why are you making claims about it? AZCat Dec 2013 #267

Please respond to post # 266 n/t Indi Guy Dec 2013 #268

Please have a little patience. n/t AZCat Dec 2013 #271

I'm not. nt Ace Acme Dec 2013 #269

That's not what your post says. AZCat Dec 2013 #273

It must be pretty damned interesting because it keeps..... wildbilln864 Jan 2014 #382

Since you edited to include another section after I responded... AZCat Dec 2013 #274

How can organizations concur with conclusions NIST has refused to publish? Indi Guy Dec 2013 #266

That isn't the conclusions. AZCat Dec 2013 #270

What about the thermal expansion calcs that NIST refused to release on grounds of public safety? Ace Acme Dec 2013 #275

Again, you should refrain from discussing topics out of your bailiwick. AZCat Dec 2013 #277

There is no reason for me to do calculations NIST refuses to release. Ace Acme Dec 2013 #279

Again, your logic is bizarre. AZCat Dec 2013 #281

The reality is that their calcs have not been released. No check on that is necesary. nt Ace Acme Dec 2013 #282

Sure it is. AZCat Dec 2013 #283

They haven't checked that the calcs have been released, because they haven't been. nt Ace Acme Dec 2013 #285

They've checked by doing their own work. All competent professionals should... AZCat Dec 2013 #287

Doing their own work is not releasing the calcs. nt Ace Acme Dec 2013 #289

I think you've lost the thread of this conversation. AZCat Dec 2013 #291

Does the fact that NIST won't release data which appear to be crucial to their conclusions... Indi Guy Dec 2013 #278

I don't remember saying I agreed with the NIST. AZCat Dec 2013 #280

Thanks for the honest explanations & responses to my questions. Indi Guy Dec 2013 #284

I would hope the NIST's info is better quality. AZCat Dec 2013 #286

NIST's WTC7 models bear no resemblance to reality. Ace Acme Dec 2013 #288

Interestingly enough, I was surprised when the NIST modelled the collapse. AZCat Dec 2013 #290

Yeah, the real collapse turned out to be simpler than a tortured, complicated model. Ace Acme Dec 2013 #292

How many times do I need to remind you it's not a good idea... AZCat Dec 2013 #293

It's not simple to someone who labors to complicate it, that's for certain. nt Ace Acme Dec 2013 #295

That doesn't make any sense. AZCat Dec 2013 #302

That makes perfect sense. Lawyers labor to complicate every issue to gain advantage Ace Acme Dec 2013 #303

Why are we talking about lawyers? AZCat Dec 2013 #309

Because some of us around here act like public-spirited citizens seeking investigations` Ace Acme Dec 2013 #316

To which group belong the posters who think they know something about physics... AZCat Dec 2013 #318

Claiming mistakes is not noting them. You make empty claims. Ace Acme Dec 2013 #320

You posted a definition of kinetic energy, claiming that was the energy equation. AZCat Dec 2013 #322

I posted the equation for kinetic energy. You're playing some juvenile game. nt Ace Acme Dec 2013 #334

I'm not the one pretending to know something about a subject... AZCat Dec 2013 #337

Obsessive posting of empty claims makes a guy look foolish. Ace Acme Dec 2013 #346

That's why my claims aren't empty. AZCat Dec 2013 #352

Your claims aren't empty to you. Ace Acme Dec 2013 #361

Unsubstantiated in what way? AZCat Dec 2013 #363

Unsubstantiated in that your assertions reference no authority but that of an Ace Acme Dec 2013 #365

I don't rely on my authority. AZCat Dec 2013 #368

You expect me to. nt Ace Acme Dec 2013 #371

I'm curious. Indi Guy Dec 2013 #372

Really, NIST published this as their model of how WTC 7 went down? Old and In the Way Dec 2013 #304

Also note, they cut off the animation before the collapse is finished. Ace Acme Dec 2013 #305

I think you're making much ado about nothing. AZCat Dec 2013 #307

NIST's implicit admission that their analysis is inconsistent with laws of physics is nothing? nt Ace Acme Dec 2013 #312

I think you're reading too much into this. AZCat Dec 2013 #317

Given your apparent emotional investment in the notion of NIST's integrity, no surprise there. nt Ace Acme Dec 2013 #319

What investment is that? AZCat Dec 2013 #321

Oh, you haven't spent many years here bullying people who question the official reports? Ace Acme Dec 2013 #323

No, I haven't. AZCat Dec 2013 #324

Making empty claims that I have a poor grasp of physics is not bullying? Ace Acme Dec 2013 #326

Making empty claims might be. AZCat Dec 2013 #327

What is the reality? Old and In the Way Dec 2013 #328

I think that's a false construct. AZCat Dec 2013 #329

Sorry, but I have to chime in here. Indi Guy Dec 2013 #330

I didn't say you shouldn't consider that it might lie. AZCat Dec 2013 #336

I get that; but... Indi Guy Dec 2013 #341

You can always question. In fact, it's an important component... AZCat Dec 2013 #354

On the basis of protecting democracy alone Ace Acme Dec 2013 #359

While I'm not out demonstrating in the streets... AZCat Dec 2013 #360

Public safety??? Indi Guy Dec 2013 #369

It's a lost cause, in my opinion. AZCat Dec 2013 #310

Thanks for sharing. nt Ace Acme Dec 2013 #314

You're welcome, by the way. n/t AZCat Dec 2013 #294

Yeah, we're so lucky to have someone here who knows all the secrets of all the secret modeling Ace Acme Dec 2013 #296

I'm not sure where you get these ridiculous notions. AZCat Dec 2013 #297

You forgot post 280? Did someone else write it? nt Ace Acme Dec 2013 #299

Then why didn't you respond to that instead of #294? AZCat Dec 2013 #300

'Cause I like to think I'm cutting edge, looking forward, not back. Y'know? nt Ace Acme Dec 2013 #306

That isn't consistent with your posting history, in my opinion. AZCat Dec 2013 #308

If you don't know that cutting edge often involves very old stuff Ace Acme Dec 2013 #313

Oooo! Oooo! I know! I know! Ace Acme Dec 2013 #272

That's a strange approach. AZCat Dec 2013 #276

Wow, and here's the 911 truth dot org site publishing an article on the Saudis Th1onein Dec 2013 #229

That is a very interesting and pertinent article. Indi Guy Dec 2013 #254

Condi lied under oath when she claimed that the "Bin Laden Determined to Strike in US" memo Ace Acme Dec 2013 #51

Government officials, like everybody else, lie to cover their own butts cpwm17 Dec 2013 #59

So at 2:30 you claim that truthers can't show that the government lied Ace Acme Dec 2013 #71

She Lied About This Too billhicks76 Dec 2013 #96

This message was self-deleted by its author Ace Acme Dec 2013 #53

You mean the evidence that the government wants you to believe, don't you? Th1onein Dec 2013 #228

Not One Unified View billhicks76 Dec 2013 #50

there's more than one set of questions about 9/11 & more than one person asking or trying to answer yurbud Dec 2013 #144

"Truthers," as the name implies, are demanding the truth from our government. Th1onein Dec 2013 #227

Brilliant post .. Lenomsky Dec 2013 #27

Of course. How can this possibly be such a surprise closeupready Dec 2013 #6

of course the saudis are responsible they wanted the troops we had there at the airbase leftyohiolib Dec 2013 #7

Old news.... Spitfire of ATJ Dec 2013 #8

Great clip, but it says nothing about the news in the OP that... Indi Guy Dec 2013 #15

There's always THIS... Spitfire of ATJ Dec 2013 #19

Once again... Indi Guy Dec 2013 #29

Considering the Bush / FOX "News" / Saudi relationship I figure there are SEVERAL smoking guns. Spitfire of ATJ Dec 2013 #43

it was more than that. yurbud Dec 2013 #101

Well sure it was. Suicide crazies are made to order there. Spitfire of ATJ Dec 2013 #102

aren't you at least a little curious what went on with the Saudi gov't and 9/11, given that the whol yurbud Dec 2013 #123

I get that the Republicans run by Cheney used 9/11 as if it was a gift.... Spitfire of ATJ Dec 2013 #140

does it matter to you whether they just "used" it versus at minimum protecting those actually guilty yurbud Dec 2013 #142

Sure, but every time anyone mentions actions against the Saudis we hear they're too big to fail. Spitfire of ATJ Dec 2013 #145

What they did needs to at least be made clear, so the public can evaluate whether "too big to fail" yurbud Dec 2013 #147

There are some people in this country who believe it was Hollywood Liberals. Spitfire of ATJ Dec 2013 #148

the bigger they are, the more they need to take a fall for their crimes yurbud Dec 2013 #170

The bigger they are, the more people WANT to see them fall. Spitfire of ATJ Dec 2013 #222

Here's former senator with first-hand knowledge, Bob Graham on the same matter: BelgianMadCow Dec 2013 #9

Good post... Indi Guy Dec 2013 #238

And I still say packman Dec 2013 #10

"You think I want to send my son to die in Kuwait?" KansDem Dec 2013 #11

2003 CBS report claims the 28 pages are about Saudi involvement Ace Acme Dec 2013 #13

Tim Osman! n/t wildbilln864 Dec 2013 #54

If wikileaks or anonymous were to release anything, these 28 pages would be it... Javaman Dec 2013 #14

From your lips to Anonymous/Wikileaks ears. loudsue Dec 2013 #31

Wikileaks declared a long time ago that they don't do 9/11. Ace Acme Dec 2013 #34

I can understand their position. loudsue Dec 2013 #38

This is the reason why CTs linger about 9/11 blackspade Dec 2013 #16

That, and the fact that it would have been near impossible for one guy to bring four planes down FiveGoodMen Dec 2013 #161

Didn't Bush stroll down the lane holding hands Kingofalldems Dec 2013 #24

Kissed him, too. loudsue Dec 2013 #32

Isn't that what's done... Indi Guy Dec 2013 #118

In this particular case, it was America that got screwed. nt Old and In the Way Dec 2013 #157

Conspiracies don't exist, there is nothing to see, here, go back to sleep. Uncle Joe Dec 2013 #25

Thanks Joe. For the record... Indi Guy Dec 2013 #117

There are many unanswered questions regarding the events of 9/11 debunkthis Dec 2013 #28

I'll debunk that. Those cuts were made in the cleanup process by a thermal lance. Ace Acme Dec 2013 #30

Holy shit AtheistCrusader Dec 2013 #35

I don't think so. I'm on the side of truth. nt Ace Acme Dec 2013 #36

Uh-huh. AtheistCrusader Dec 2013 #37

That is a first responder in the lower left image debunkthis Dec 2013 #39

Firefighters were present at all stages of debris removal. AtheistCrusader Dec 2013 #40

Ok then debunkthis Dec 2013 #63

Define 'just after the collapse'. AtheistCrusader Dec 2013 #64

What that shows is not an angle-cut column but a perimeter column module perched at the top Ace Acme Dec 2013 #75

Hmmm... debunkthis Dec 2013 #110

and with that, Truthy to POWER! snooper2 Dec 2013 #131

There's a lot of nonsense floating around the internet--and a lot of the 9/11 stuff is like Ace Acme Dec 2013 #136

LOL, I know all about Richard Gage- just like his buddy Alex Jones snooper2 Dec 2013 #137

A PhD structural engineer can not refute criticisms of his report and must resort Ace Acme Dec 2013 #143

Dude or Dudette, you folks have had over a decade now---You got nothing snooper2 Dec 2013 #146

So now you change the subject from Dr. Sunder's apparent inability to refute criticism Ace Acme Dec 2013 #149

Good post. ronnie624 Dec 2013 #120

got a link for that ? questionseverything Dec 2013 #158

Here you go Ace Acme Dec 2013 #159

all those links say is questionseverything Dec 2013 #164

The meme that the collapse was caused by the planes hitting was put out quickly: Th1onein Dec 2013 #231

That was awkward. thanks ! Jesus Malverde Dec 2013 #242

Boring attempt. AtheistCrusader Dec 2013 #33

Here's a better challenge for you. WTC 7 collapse BelgianMadCow Dec 2013 #70

You are distracting from an actual issue. AtheistCrusader Dec 2013 #74

The Distraction is Pertinent Ace Acme Dec 2013 #82

The Saudi revelations/redactions are a political issue, relevant regardless of whether AtheistCrusader Dec 2013 #85

Doubts about the integrity of an official gov't report during a time of politicized science Ace Acme Dec 2013 #87

Not hijacking it was also my intent. AtheistCrusader Dec 2013 #89

The very fact of the redactions to the official government report... Indi Guy Dec 2013 #121

I OPd on DU about the Saudi issue weeks ago. And I'm free to discuss anything I want BelgianMadCow Dec 2013 #88

You are free to state anything you want. AtheistCrusader Dec 2013 #91

Indeed. And yes, you are free to dismiss my statement. BelgianMadCow Dec 2013 #95

ty... wildbilln864 Dec 2013 #90

that's a different kind of issue than who actually funded and coordinated the attacks and why they yurbud Dec 2013 #124

k & fucking r! n/t wildbilln864 Dec 2013 #42

The Bushes and the Bin Ladens have been doing business together for decades! N/T wildbilln864 Dec 2013 #44

If our government is going to deliberately hide the truth Bradical79 Dec 2013 #47

That seems like a reasonable statement. Indi Guy Dec 2013 #139

According to those who talk shit to CT's, the gov't NEVER lies, everything has been reported & mother earth Dec 2013 #60

Ah, the very definition of a strawman takes shape and rises under it's own power, so large AtheistCrusader Dec 2013 #61

Crusader, where's your super hero outfit? The one with the big "S" for sucker. nt mother earth Dec 2013 #65

Surely you can offer just one post from a 'person who shits on CT'rs' that exhibits the elements you AtheistCrusader Dec 2013 #66

The blade is dull, AC. You disappoint, and clearly you don't pay attention. nt mother earth Dec 2013 #68

So, no link then. I thought not. AtheistCrusader Dec 2013 #69

You are always right, that's why you are a superhero. mother earth Dec 2013 #72

Your original assertion remains a strawman. They are not difficult to set on fire. Simply ask for AtheistCrusader Dec 2013 #73

I need evidence, but when evidence is hidden away by the gov't, it's completely unnecessary. mother earth Dec 2013 #77

You have none, because no one makes the ridiculous claims you fabricated here. AtheistCrusader Dec 2013 #78

I've been told that personally in other encounters, specifically the JFK threads of late, not that I mother earth Dec 2013 #79

A link will do. AtheistCrusader Dec 2013 #80

Who TF are you to demand anything of me? You've got big ones, for sure. mother earth Dec 2013 #83

You made a broad brush attack, a very specific one, against a group of DU members. AtheistCrusader Dec 2013 #86

Post 41 in this very thread. Ace Acme Dec 2013 #93

And what I wrote is the exact opposite of the claim cpwm17 Dec 2013 #107

OK, my misreading. Confirmation bias is a terrible thing. nt Ace Acme Dec 2013 #125

That post is accurate. Truther's did not uncover this set of documents. AtheistCrusader Dec 2013 #119

Truthers are the only ones educating people about them. Ace Acme Dec 2013 #182

Right, that totally explains why the International Business Times ran the story. AtheistCrusader Dec 2013 #183

Ran what story? When? Did they point out that Condi lied under oath? Ace Acme Dec 2013 #184

They. Ran. The. Story. In. The. Op. AtheistCrusader Dec 2013 #186

They haven't uncovered the documents. They're still redacted--as truthers have been pointing out Ace Acme Dec 2013 #189

This type of story is an extremely rare occurrence in the MSM... Indi Guy Dec 2013 #185

WaPo's Dana Priest explained the rationale they operate under Ace Acme Dec 2013 #187

I posted these thoughts earlier, but I think they might also be appropriate here... Indi Guy Dec 2013 #188

US media's coverage of 9/11 has been consistently awful noise Dec 2013 #196

I posted this earlier, but it applies directly to what you're saying: Indi Guy Dec 2013 #220

The awful media coverage noise Dec 2013 #234

That's a lie.-nt Bradical79 Dec 2013 #150

It's a pretty fair description of the quality of argument that the "debunkers" employ Ace Acme Dec 2013 #152

That's pretty interesting. ZombieHorde Dec 2013 #62

I doubt anything would. n/t wildbilln864 Dec 2013 #67

Ohh exciting, I can't wait to hear what bandar bush was up to...nt Jesus Malverde Dec 2013 #92

We already know that his wife was writing checks for benefactors of known al Qaeda agents Ace Acme Dec 2013 #97

We're not likely to know anything soon. Indi Guy Dec 2013 #190

I'm impressed a Republican is onboard yurbud Dec 2013 #99

Walter Jones is one of the very few Good Repugs..... KoKo Dec 2013 #111

We attacked one country that had nothing to do with 9/11 & one that was at worst terrorists... yurbud Dec 2013 #100

Taliban was one of 13 foreign countries that warned us before 9/11. Ace Acme Dec 2013 #104

and..... wildbilln864 Dec 2013 #115

I guess you disagree with this OP concerning Saudi Arabia's involvement in 9-11 cpwm17 Dec 2013 #129

Sy Hersh did the definitive story on the bug out at Tora Bora yurbud Dec 2013 #122

I remember Hersh on the Kunduz Airlift. Not so much on Tora Bora. Ace Acme Dec 2013 #126

Remember bin Laden's AQ Fortress at Tora Bora? Old and In the Way Dec 2013 #162

yep--I remember later stories that most caves were just deep enough to get out of sight for a minute yurbud Dec 2013 #171

Still believe that the bin Ladens were flying around looking for cheap American land to buy on 9/11 blkmusclmachine Dec 2013 #108

And horses. And land for horses. nt Ace Acme Dec 2013 #113

The time has come. That no Congresscritter went into that "Secret Room" KoKo Dec 2013 #116

K&R! Omaha Steve Dec 2013 #128

This is the time of pretension polynomial Dec 2013 #130

I wish I shared your optimism 2banon Dec 2013 #198

I linked the recent interview of Bob Graham upthread BelgianMadCow Dec 2013 #200

Charlie Rose bemoans faltering relationship with Saudi Arabia 2banon Dec 2013 #210

Here's a connection worth looking into... Indi Guy Dec 2013 #342

Is Ptech the connection you were referring to? 2banon Dec 2013 #344

Indeed. Indi Guy Dec 2013 #348

"Move along. Nothing to see here." - CorporateMedia Borg, Inc. (R - Propaganda Catapult) Berlum Dec 2013 #132

K&R DeSwiss Dec 2013 #133

All this dirty Saudi laundry should have been aired out JEB Dec 2013 #135

Mucho wow!! El Shaman Dec 2013 #151

I'll raise your mucho, with a grande wow! Old and In the Way Dec 2013 #163

Howard Dean mused on whether Bush had advance knowledge of 9/11 . . . . Ace Acme Dec 2013 #166

If 9/11 had happened on Obama's watch with the same action/reactions, I guarantee you that Old and In the Way Dec 2013 #167

Some would say that... Indi Guy Dec 2013 #206

My theory posted for the first time anywhere. Soundman Dec 2013 #160

According to FEMA's zipper-pancake theory that was conventional engineering wisdom for 3 years Ace Acme Dec 2013 #165

Nice you could send anyone who was involved to private prisons or tortured, ooops they drowned mitty14u2 Dec 2013 #172

Daniel Hopsicker.... wildbilln864 Dec 2013 #174

He must be embarrassed by the "freedom fries" BlueToTheBone Dec 2013 #204

Inside the Saudi 9/11 coverup Jesus Malverde Dec 2013 #236

Senator Bob Graham and 9/11 Commissioners Bob Kerry, Max Cleland, Lee Hamilton, and Tom Kean... Indi Guy Dec 2013 #239

9-11 was about selfish, right-wing, bloodsucking parasites in the Middle East cpwm17 Dec 2013 #379

There are a number of points I'd like to discuss with you here... Indi Guy Dec 2013 #380

doesn't look like he's going to touch it eh? wildbilln864 Jan 2014 #383

Thanks for viewing these short clips. Indi Guy Jan 2014 #384

I've been arguing with.... wildbilln864 Jan 2014 #385

Thanks. Indi Guy Jan 2014 #386

absolutely! wildbilln864 Jan 2014 #389

and a kick! eom. wildbilln864 Dec 2013 #255

I'm curious to know what the Congressmen think our relationship should be now, TwilightGardener Dec 2013 #298

There's more. Ace Acme Dec 2013 #301

Message auto-removed Name removed Dec 2013 #335

I'm still trying to get a response... Indi Guy Dec 2013 #374

UPDATE... Indi Guy Jan 2014 #381

Kicked and recommended. Uncle Joe Jan 2014 #387

CIA Threatens 9/11 Researchers After Discovery Of Cover Up Details... wildbilln864 Jan 2014 #388

Well, the producers should have known that... Indi Guy Jan 2014 #390

what is your take on this please? wildbilln864 Jan 2014 #391

Clearly the colonel is believable,... Indi Guy Jan 2014 #392

thanks... wildbilln864 Jan 2014 #393