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Matrosov

(1,098 posts)

184. We have all benefitted from slave trade

Fri Jan 2, 2015, 04:07 PM

Jan 2015

This country was built on the backs of slaves and on the graves of Native Americans. Even the poorest among us enjoys a little higher quality of life than if Americans in the past had never owned slaves or had acquired the land honestly.

In the case of African-Americans however, that benefit is negated by the fact that their history as slaves has relegated them to a status of second-class citizens. White privilege today exists in large part because of the greed and racism that drove the slave trade over hundreds of years.

Hence there is a good argument to be made for reparations. We are not responsible for the actions of our forefathers, and African-Americans today never had to live the life of a slave, yet it is undeniable that whites today are better off and African-Americans today are worse off due to the role slavery played in this country. The same goes for Native Americans and the role their genocide played in this country.

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George W. Bush’s Great-Great-Great-Great-Grandfather Was a Slave Trader [View all] NewDeal_Dem Jan 2015 OP

Mine mighta been too and I'm black. bravenak Jan 2015 #1

And your possible slave-trading ancestor? NewDeal_Dem Jan 2015 #2

Who knows? bravenak Jan 2015 #3

there are many black people in the US who have some white ancestry JI7 Jan 2015 #14

understood. I just failed to see the significance, since the white children of slavers tended to NewDeal_Dem Jan 2015 #25

that's one of the reasons there should be reparations , but none of that means JI7 Jan 2015 #26

You cannot punish people Boreal Jan 2015 #30

But should they be rewarded? nichomachus Jan 2015 #47

People can and should be held accountable Boreal Jan 2015 #70

How are they going to be punished? former9thward Jan 2015 #166

nobody is being punished, reparations were given to Japanese, my family didn't immigrate here JI7 Jan 2015 #66

Japanese Boreal Jan 2015 #78

If I understand correctly, only those people who were actually interred received hughee99 Jan 2015 #157

How does one give money to people that have been interred? n/t Mugu Jan 2015 #202

Whoops, sorry. Interned. n/t hughee99 Jan 2015 #203

I knew that you meant interned. Mugu Jan 2015 #204

FedEx Ground. dawg Jan 2015 #207

Well done!!! n/t Mugu Jan 2015 #209

No one is blaming George Bush for slavery. I am saying George is a direct beneficiary of the NewDeal_Dem Jan 2015 #41

do you support reparations for african americans ? JI7 Jan 2015 #65

AA's deserve reparations. Whether they would ultimately change people's situation much is open NewDeal_Dem Jan 2015 #93

i am the working class, and i class and race are not always the same, NYPD aren't not wealthy upper JI7 Jan 2015 #94

there's a lot of racism and so what? it serves the interests of rich new yorkers and politicians NewDeal_Dem Jan 2015 #102

no, i lay it at the feet of the racists, just because NYPD may not be wealthy upper class doesn't JI7 Jan 2015 #103

this is what is so sick and duplicitious about the conversation about race in america. racism is NewDeal_Dem Jan 2015 #126

i'm working class and make less money than nypd yet i'm not racist or support the choking of Garner JI7 Jan 2015 #133

His personal talents, intelligence have everything to do with his education loyalsister Jan 2015 #83

A lot of families benefited directly from slavery and some would say merrily Jan 2015 #143

Sorry, I don't see that getting lettuce for .5 cents cheaper equals the benefit the big shareholders NewDeal_Dem Jan 2015 #167

I apparently put all people on a par with the family that owns WalMart? Really? merrily Jan 2015 #169

What you said: NewDeal_Dem Jan 2015 #170

Also Africans Boreal Jan 2015 #29

Africans, however, didn't benefit from the trade for millenia. Not Africans living in Africa, nor NewDeal_Dem Jan 2015 #42

Newport Boreal Jan 2015 #139

Ain't that an inconvenient truth! MADem Jan 2015 #177

So true! bravenak Jan 2015 #179

Well, in that case ... hfojvt Jan 2015 #181

Behind every great fortune is a Sanity Claws Jan 2015 #4

Wasnt their first, I am sure and certainly was not their last randys1 Jan 2015 #5

OK. JK Rowling is richer than the Queen of England. Nye Bevan Jan 2015 #84

Her writing? Erich Bloodaxe BSN Jan 2015 #171

Me neither. bravenak Jan 2015 #180

Did you ever read her Cormoran Strike books? Nye Bevan Jan 2015 #188

Nope. Erich Bloodaxe BSN Jan 2015 #189

Yes, these are books for adults (nt) Nye Bevan Jan 2015 #196

Damn that Oprah! n/t hughee99 Jan 2015 #159

George W. Bush can be blamed for a lot of bad things bluestateguy Jan 2015 #6

The capital that originated in the slave trade was used to fund further capital accumulation. One NewDeal_Dem Jan 2015 #8

that's why many of us support reparations, but it doesn't mean bush and others are personally to JI7 Jan 2015 #12

You, j17, would make a great jeb supporter RobertEarl Jan 2015 #23

Who said they were? But they benefited, quite directly and personally. NewDeal_Dem Jan 2015 #27

and that's why i support reparations JI7 Jan 2015 #28

But they continue the family tradition of practicing and promoting racism. Dont call me Shirley Jan 2015 #37

that would be true regardless JI7 Jan 2015 #67

+ 100 JustAnotherGen Jan 2015 #146

I understand this and I can relate to the whole idea of letting those people know CTyankee Jan 2015 #15

It's not a grudge; it's a crime. And I very much resent the line, which I see in this discussion NewDeal_Dem Jan 2015 #31

+1,000,000 Dont call me Shirley Jan 2015 #43

BS, many Blacks didn't benefit from New Deal and other Programs because of Racism JI7 Jan 2015 #75

you're the only person who brought up the effect of the new deal on black people. and you seem NewDeal_Dem Jan 2015 #90

thank you for these contributions.. grasswire Jan 2015 #104

We have all benefitted from slave trade Matrosov Jan 2015 #184

and, to paraphrase orwell, some have benefited way more than others. NewDeal_Dem Jan 2015 #187

And Sherman A1 Jan 2015 #7

Yeah. You really can't help what people in your family line did in the past. alphafemale Jan 2015 #9

No but you can benifit from it via accumulation of power and weath and be d*ck... JanMichael Jan 2015 #11

Well nearly ALL white people have that benefit. alphafemale Jan 2015 #17

Why yes it does and it is still wrong. nt. JanMichael Jan 2015 #19

No, we nearly all -don't- have the same benefit that people like the Bushes had. Because most NewDeal_Dem Jan 2015 #32

just because you aren't as wealthy as the BUsh Family doesn't mean you didn't Benefit JI7 Jan 2015 #71

Doubtful. First, my family lines are mostly post Civil War & post-Jim Crow immigrants. NewDeal_Dem Jan 2015 #89

because white skin privilege is real, look at the NYPD , they sure aren't wealthy but a big problem JI7 Jan 2015 #92

NYPD takes orders from people like Bloomberg and defends the interests of that class. Same as NewDeal_Dem Jan 2015 #95

you think Racism in the NYPD didn't exist before Bloomberg became Mayor and he is no longer mayor JI7 Jan 2015 #96

I'm sure racism existed before bloomberg and will exist after. But the police have always served NewDeal_Dem Jan 2015 #105

no, there actually ARE racists because they are racist , but you insist on making racists out to be JI7 Jan 2015 #108

really ? so you think the NYPD that choked Eric Garner and shot Michael Brown are victims like JI7 Jan 2015 #98

yeah, thats exactly what i said, j17. i also wonder why you're so vested in defending the NewDeal_Dem Jan 2015 #107

nope, Jimmy Carter is wealthy and had slave owning ancestors and i don't see him as a problem JI7 Jan 2015 #110

The same is true of the carter and bush families: profit from the institution of slavery gave them NewDeal_Dem Jan 2015 #113

DeBlasio is Mayor of NYC , and Jimmy Carter is not the problem and not comparable to W Bush, the JI7 Jan 2015 #114

bloomberg is the symbol of the 'reconquista' of nyc for the wealthy and powerful. despite NewDeal_Dem Jan 2015 #116

you think cops only do what is policy ? chokeholds are banned by policy yet we saw JI7 Jan 2015 #117

yes and we see how often people get shitcanned for violating those fancy policies. that's the fault NewDeal_Dem Jan 2015 #120

there is no we . you lump racist cops in with eric garner as if they are all victims which is fucked JI7 Jan 2015 #121

What do you think about the whites who helped slaves cross from Kentucky into say Ohio? JDPriestly Jan 2015 #109

i don't have to explain that sentence to you, i didn't write it. it's a bad sentence, though i NewDeal_Dem Jan 2015 #115

The word ancestor in the sense used in the article is defined as follows: JDPriestly Jan 2015 #134

the slave trader was the ancestor of jefferson's wife and the source of some of jefferson's NewDeal_Dem Jan 2015 #137

Genetics. Dont call me Shirley Jan 2015 #38

Precisely Sherman A1 Jan 2015 #129

there are enough horrible things about Bush , i'm sure many of us would have some shitty JI7 Jan 2015 #10

what don't you get about 'the bush family's position in life was built on wealth from the NewDeal_Dem Jan 2015 #33

Not just slavery. Erich Bloodaxe BSN Jan 2015 #172

yes. they seem to have more than their share of dubious business dealings, including those of NewDeal_Dem Jan 2015 #173

His grandfather edhopper Jan 2015 #13

or how about just blaming him for his own fuck ups JI7 Jan 2015 #16

True edhopper Jan 2015 #18

The apologies here are simply amazing RobertEarl Jan 2015 #20

I'm quite flabbergasted to see how deep the apologism goes. Yet the same people i think NewDeal_Dem Jan 2015 #34

what would you have us do or say about this information? uppityperson Jan 2015 #36

Do you heap the same kind of scorn on Katrina Browne Ms. Toad Jan 2015 #39

I imagine that Browne and Perry, even today, command more resources than the descendants NewDeal_Dem Jan 2015 #44

How about you read the post I was replying to Ms. Toad Jan 2015 #56

Understood, and ITA. nt Ilsa Jan 2015 #61

Damn you Fukushima! NuclearDem Jan 2015 #81

I could understand saying that this has Euphoria Jan 2015 #21

Who would pay them? Boreal Jan 2015 #35

Things could get pretty interesting pipi_k Jan 2015 #64

And what about Boreal Jan 2015 #77

But you see, that's the reason the rich talk up collective white guilt (even though most white NewDeal_Dem Jan 2015 #160

Yep. I have no guilt regarding slavery. TexasMommaWithAHat Jan 2015 #185

Excellent points Boreal Jan 2015 #186

I knew it!!! ileus Jan 2015 #22

I just have one question... GummyBearz Jan 2015 #59

Barbara 'Pierce' Bush is related to... Blanks Jan 2015 #24

Reparations jeepers Jan 2015 #45

I support casting the high down from the mountains built with their ill-gotten wealth, personally. NewDeal_Dem Jan 2015 #51

there will be racism and resentment regardless , there is resentment because the President is Black JI7 Jan 2015 #72

I have no objection to complaints about Bush concerning his own actions. branford Jan 2015 #40

I think every american should know who -really- benefited, and continues to benefit, from slavery. NewDeal_Dem Jan 2015 #46

If you want to show the Bush family tree, go right ahead. branford Jan 2015 #53

so, you speak for most people? and what is your source for this knowledge? kwassa Jan 2015 #79

Yes, I have authority. branford Jan 2015 #87

No, you don't. kwassa Jan 2015 #193

You challenged my specific claim that most Americans do not support reparations branford Jan 2015 #194

I disagree kwassa Jan 2015 #195

This discussion is futile. branford Jan 2015 #197

You keep stating principles while I am talking history. kwassa Jan 2015 #198

Hold on . . . I most certainly never stated people today do not suffer from racism branford Jan 2015 #199

I am bothered by several things kwassa Jan 2015 #200

We are having a discussion on "Democratic Underground," branford Jan 2015 #201

We finally get down to the key of our disagreement: White privilege. kwassa Jan 2015 #205

The "abstract world of legal principle" is equal protection under the law branford Jan 2015 #206

Asian americans already make more money than whites and have more net worth, and have NewDeal_Dem Jan 2015 #211

The question is, branford Jan 2015 #212

I think the whole concept of 'white privilege' is muddle-headed. But i don't think asians would NewDeal_Dem Jan 2015 #229

I happen to think the situation of Asian-Americans particularly interesting. branford Jan 2015 #231

As I recall, affirmative action hasn't existed for years in california. NewDeal_Dem Jan 2015 #232

I happen to agree with you. branford Jan 2015 #233

many can claim what they like. i think the fact that black admissions have dropped while asian NewDeal_Dem Jan 2015 #235

i didn't claim gwb owed anyone anything. i didnt claim gwb was responsible for slavery. i claimed NewDeal_Dem Jan 2015 #88

You said far more than that. branford Jan 2015 #99

I support taxing the wealthy very heavily to pay for reparations. I suppose that's a terrible NewDeal_Dem Jan 2015 #111

I'm a little confused. branford Jan 2015 #122

I support heavy taxation of the rich generally. It helps keep them honest. Black or white. NewDeal_Dem Jan 2015 #123

This, I can agree with. bravenak Jan 2015 #149

I would venture 840high Jan 2015 #82

Ugh. Unrec. NuclearDem Jan 2015 #48

If you had ancestors who did despicable things and you're part of one of the most powerful NewDeal_Dem Jan 2015 #50

George W Bush is responsible for the actions of George W Bush. NuclearDem Jan 2015 #54

how powerful were the ones responsible for death of Emmett Till ? JI7 Jan 2015 #68

less powerful than the ones who instituted and ran the whole jim crow system in the interest NewDeal_Dem Jan 2015 #118

it's really disgusting how you keep excusing racists just because they don't own a mansion JI7 Jan 2015 #119

your apologism for power is equally disgusting in my eyes especially as you deflect their crimes NewDeal_Dem Jan 2015 #124

Cops in the NYPD have little power ? HAHAHAHA JI7 Jan 2015 #125

Not without the backing of their masters. NewDeal_Dem Jan 2015 #127

Bush is a piece of shit , but i'm not going to blame him for racists in the NYPD or elsewhere JI7 Jan 2015 #132

You sure hooked a few, eh? RobertEarl Jan 2015 #130

now this thread is starting to make sense eShirl Jan 2015 #140

George W. Bush hfojvt Jan 2015 #178

...^ that 840high Jan 2015 #80

It's the principle of the old boys' club at work starroute Jan 2015 #49

It's excellent replies like this that keep me Ilsa Jan 2015 #58

very interesting history. and yes, i think these people are highly aware of where they came from. NewDeal_Dem Jan 2015 #101

Great information, but I wonder about an overdose Jamastiene Jan 2015 #145

No typo starroute Jan 2015 #147

Thank you. Jamastiene Jan 2015 #191

What a surprise. RandySF Jan 2015 #52

My family is originally from Mississippi and I suspect they were too. That was many generations ago OregonBlue Jan 2015 #55

I'm not here to judge your family. But I know the Bush history, and it's clear that capital amassed NewDeal_Dem Jan 2015 #57

That may be true but George and Jeb didn't do that. Nor would they do it today. OregonBlue Jan 2015 #210

Did your family get rich off it and are you still benefiting by it? starroute Jan 2015 #73

There are so many good reasons to criticize W, Jeb and Poppy . . . markpkessinger Jan 2015 #60

+1 840high Jan 2015 #85

Everyone has 64 great-great-great-great-grandparents. Nye Bevan Jan 2015 #86

The slavetrader's grandson, and great grandfather of GHWB. NewDeal_Dem Jan 2015 #131

Great post YoungDemCA Jan 2015 #213

Lotta people in this thread confident of the purity of their ancestry back then.. (nt) Posteritatis Jan 2015 #62

so what? wildbilln864 Jan 2015 #63

Dear OP, WHy don't you answer my question about Reparations ? JI7 Jan 2015 #69

Since you want an answer, I'll give you a couple starroute Jan 2015 #74

"people of color are poor, often in debt, poorly educated, and without any experience in managing JI7 Jan 2015 #76

WTF is that? Offensive. Igel Jan 2015 #97

much of that is due to racism, not incompetence on the part of african americans JI7 Jan 2015 #100

actually, much of it is due to law & policing, put in place by rich people. not some generalized NewDeal_Dem Jan 2015 #162

If that's your model of reparations, it's clearly misplaced starroute Jan 2015 #106

of course the system has to change, doesn't mean there can't be reparations JI7 Jan 2015 #112

Would you be willing to let the next generation upaloopa Jan 2015 #182

Would you favor reparations only for those who could prove they were descended from slaves, Nye Bevan Jan 2015 #91

There were mixed race slaves. bravenak Jan 2015 #150

Big time prison slave labor, to rival any other country in the world. Dont call me Shirley Jan 2015 #183

Wow, just wow! I had no idea that the Bush family was so steeped in racism/slavery! Major Hogwash Jan 2015 #128

fascinating Niceguy1 Jan 2015 #135

"we" don't? when the son is beneficiary of the sins of the father, i'm for publicizing the fact. NewDeal_Dem Jan 2015 #136

it is time to move on Niceguy1 Jan 2015 #141

I see no reason for the public not to know that the Bushes ancestors built the family fortunes on NewDeal_Dem Jan 2015 #168

The article refers to Jefferson's father-in-law as Jefferson's ancestor. JDPriestly Jan 2015 #138

According to wiki, the father of Sen. Prescott Bush was Samuel Prescott Bush, which seems to make merrily Jan 2015 #142

I think you may be confused about the geneaology posted in the OP: NewDeal_Dem Jan 2015 #151

Yes, I did miss that it was only the side of the Senator's wife. Thank you for merrily Jan 2015 #153

The Bush side has its slavery-related history as well. For example, NewDeal_Dem Jan 2015 #155

I will gladly take info on factual matters. merrily Jan 2015 #156

as i've not said anything about that, i'm happy you "don't agree" with my non-existent comments. NewDeal_Dem Jan 2015 #158

I read the thread before making my original post and think my reply 156 was very fair, given merrily Jan 2015 #161

I'm sorry you think so. The fact is, I have consistently and explicitly said that the origins of NewDeal_Dem Jan 2015 #165

PS: Senator Bush wasn't Samuel Prescott Bush. Sam Prescott was an armaments manufacturer, NewDeal_Dem Jan 2015 #174

I know. I didn't say the Senator's name was Samuel. I said his father's was. I linked to both wikis. merrily Jan 2015 #175

Any idea what his other 63 great-great-great-great grandparents did? Warren DeMontague Jan 2015 #144

Explains the attitude toward Social Security, let alone raising minimum wage, today... Octafish Jan 2015 #148

+100 NewDeal_Dem Jan 2015 #163

Cap'n Tom didn't even make it to 40. Murdered at sea in a mutiny KentuckyWoman Jan 2015 #152

So what. People today not responsible for ancestors. on point Jan 2015 #154

good thing nobody said that, then. however, it's good for people to know that many of the NewDeal_Dem Jan 2015 #164

Ahh, corruption of blood... n/t bobclark86 Jan 2015 #176

Um, so? MohRokTah Jan 2015 #190

George W. Bush is a torturer and war criminal. undeterred Jan 2015 #192

We have to realize that many great-great-great-great grandfathers were mfcorey1 Jan 2015 #208

My great-grandfather was a Freemason who married a Catholic and converted YoungDemCA Jan 2015 #214

I know that. But 'a lot of people' don't owe their present fortune and status to them. NewDeal_Dem Jan 2015 #234

And Jimmy Carter's owned about 80 of them. Glassunion Jan 2015 #215

Do you have a link for that? I don't doubt you, but it's hard to pin numbers down. NewDeal_Dem Jan 2015 #216

Here is an old news article. My recollection was from an old project I did back in HS. Glassunion Jan 2015 #217

ok, maybe i didn't missed it in reading it, but i didn't see anything about the number of slaves NewDeal_Dem Jan 2015 #218

2nd column, 4th paragraph. Glassunion Jan 2015 #219

thanks. but what i read is: NewDeal_Dem Jan 2015 #220

Welcome back! zappaman Jan 2015 #221

This was simply a point of contention that hits home. Glassunion Jan 2015 #222

i disagree with you (and the many others who've said more or less the same). if slavery was the NewDeal_Dem Jan 2015 #226

I understand where you are coming from. Glassunion Jan 2015 #228

is your family in the top 1%? did their present power originate in slave-gotten wealth? NewDeal_Dem Jan 2015 #230

We should be aware of history. I agree 100% Glassunion Jan 2015 #237

They were brothers. Glassunion Jan 2015 #223

yes, but james was the jimmy carter ancestor, correct? NewDeal_Dem Jan 2015 #224

Yes. Glassunion Jan 2015 #225

so if you have a reference for the '80 slaves'. i'm quite sure the carters owned slaves, in NewDeal_Dem Jan 2015 #227

Back in my day there were many micro films, index cards, etc... pre internet and all... Glassunion Jan 2015 #236