General Discussion

quaker bill

(8,260 posts)

150. when and where do you start counting?

Fri Jul 4, 2014, 11:05 PM

Jul 2014

First, we don't count the dead that well if at all, but you would need to consider the tally from all the free market client dictators we have backed, guys like Pinochet, Marcos, Batista, Saddam Hussein, the Shah of Iran and so many more, going back 100 years or more all over the planet. Then add in the clearing of the native population of this continent.

How many times have we installed dictators in each of the banana republics? Think they killed / disappeared people a bit?

VietNam, Cambodia, Laos.....

I think a fair accounting makes it a pretty close contest.

Command economies had inherent problems 100 years ago. People were doing the organizing on paper (double entry ledgers). "Just in time" inventory systems had not been invented. Wal-Mart is now larger than many economies and runs +/- fine with a command system. I have never been to one that was out of toilet paper....

Nothing happens in a vacuum. What you call communism failed in the context of a much larger economy spending itself to near insolvency to force it to happen.

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Does Capitalism Inevitably Produce Inequalities? [View all] xchrom Jul 2014 OP

Yes, Sir, It Does The Magistrate Jul 2014 #1

stiglitz would disagree -- some what. nt xchrom Jul 2014 #3

Marx certainly thought so Warpy Jul 2014 #151

I Agree The Matter Could Be Mended, Sir The Magistrate Jul 2014 #152

+1 nt Live and Learn Jul 2014 #157

It would be impossible to argue other wise el_bryanto Jul 2014 #2

creates opportunities..... daleanime Jul 2014 #5

Well command economies also have inequalities el_bryanto Jul 2014 #8

So that makes it OK? daleanime Jul 2014 #9

I think that any economic system on a scale of the united states will produce inequalities el_bryanto Jul 2014 #11

Then we agree.... daleanime Jul 2014 #43

RE: your last paragraph....... socialist_n_TN Jul 2014 #117

So capitalism creates opportunities in theory Raksha Jul 2014 #50

Of course it does Lee-Lee Jul 2014 #4

This message was self-deleted by its author Adam051188 Jul 2014 #7

Nope. Like the Scandinavian countries, Iceland is a capitalist country. Nye Bevan Jul 2014 #25

Perhaps, by definition... CanSocDem Jul 2014 #6

Capital itself is theft. Inequality is not so much the byproduct as the essential product. Gravitycollapse Jul 2014 #10

Theft is taking money that you haven't earned. Either by.... clarice Jul 2014 #12

Ron Or Rand Paul Could Not Have Said That Better, Ma'am.... The Magistrate Jul 2014 #14

Perhaps Sir, but am I correct or not? nt clarice Jul 2014 #16

What Is 'Earned' And What Is 'Work', Ma'am? The Magistrate Jul 2014 #21

Respectfully Sir... clarice Jul 2014 #27

The Text For The Sermon, Ma'am, Is This.... The Magistrate Jul 2014 #33

Sir... clarice Jul 2014 #37

A 'Flat Taxer', Are You, Ma'am? The Magistrate Jul 2014 #40

No, not a Fat Taxer per se. nt clarice Jul 2014 #59

Then What, Ma'am? Because You just Called For A Flat Tax The Magistrate Jul 2014 #61

Well, there is the Neal Boortz-supported sham known as the Fair Tax: HughBeaumont Jul 2014 #72

Without getting into a tax code debate...... clarice Jul 2014 #68

It Is Up To You To Support That, Ma'am, In The Fields Under Discussion The Magistrate Jul 2014 #73

I don't think in the way you would define that... quaker bill Jul 2014 #115

I would call that lousy business practices. nt clarice Jul 2014 #116

Why is that "lousy business practices"? Taking as much money in profit...... socialist_n_TN Jul 2014 #118

Who ARE the masses? And who would be considered "NOT" the masses. nt clarice Jul 2014 #129

Everybody but the owners of the means of production..... socialist_n_TN Jul 2014 #133

Who would be the "owners of production" Individuals? Government?...... clarice Jul 2014 #134

socialist_n_TN ? clarice Jul 2014 #139

Yes?... socialist_n_TN Jul 2014 #147

Who sits on the boards of corporations?..... socialist_n_TN Jul 2014 #143

Thank you, have a GREAT weekend. nt clarice Jul 2014 #146

But very survivable quaker bill Jul 2014 #122

The word "theft" in that particular example does not apply. nt clarice Jul 2014 #127

Why Not, Ma'am? The Magistrate Jul 2014 #130

Maybe through collective thought and effort we can erect a system that is good for about 99% of us nolabels Jul 2014 #144

There's no sense reinventing the wheel...... socialist_n_TN Jul 2014 #148

If it worked then what has happened to it, where is it and how do we indentfy it? nolabels Jul 2014 #149

This cannot be repeated enough, when "risk capital" is brought up: Maedhros Jul 2014 #48

Capital is the theft of labor. Gravitycollapse Jul 2014 #15

Following that line..... clarice Jul 2014 #18

How about folks who enjoy their jobs and feel that they are fairly compensated? Nye Bevan Jul 2014 #34

Absolutely. The theft is inherent to the system. Gravitycollapse Jul 2014 #41

Some inmates are "institutionalized", and come to love their prison. Maedhros Jul 2014 #49

So when JK Rowling is rewarded with billions of pounds for writing the Harry Potter books, Nye Bevan Jul 2014 #56

No, JK Rowling is part of the Bourgeoisie Gravitycollapse Jul 2014 #58

Ah. So there is some income level below which you are being stolen from, Nye Bevan Jul 2014 #62

The small business owner is petit bourgeoisie Gravitycollapse Jul 2014 #65

Curious, and not being snarky, clarice Jul 2014 #67

I didn't buy into it. I was made conscious of the system... Gravitycollapse Jul 2014 #70

Thank you for your honest, reasoned response. (not sarcasm) Peace Out. nt clarice Jul 2014 #71

Nye, clarice Jul 2014 #66

Why is the minority.... daleanime Jul 2014 #75

Compared to the rest of the world? absolutely .nt clarice Jul 2014 #78

You don't have a very good understanding of "the rest of the world." Gravitycollapse Jul 2014 #89

Also doesn't understand 'fairly'.... daleanime Jul 2014 #102

Didn't ask about the rest of the world.... daleanime Jul 2014 #103

Ooooops...sorry....did I express an independent opinion??? My bad. nt clarice Jul 2014 #105

Bad? Yes..... daleanime Jul 2014 #106

Actually.... clarice Jul 2014 #107

"Derogatory term for women?" daleanime Jul 2014 #108

I try to keep personal attacks to a minimum.... clarice Jul 2014 #109

Like I said... daleanime Jul 2014 #111

I never said that there wasn't income disparity in The US.. clarice Jul 2014 #112

You Are Trying To Take Matter Sideways, Sir The Magistrate Jul 2014 #69

One of the major victories of capitalism is propagandizing the idea......... socialist_n_TN Jul 2014 #96

Indeed, Sir The Magistrate Jul 2014 #98

It's We the People's money at best, the oligarch's or empire's money at worst, not yours. hunter Jul 2014 #19

Respectfully..... clarice Jul 2014 #22

I have $2.66 in my pocket right now. hunter Jul 2014 #44

I am so sorry to hear of your plight. I have very much "been there" Is there anything that I can do? clarice Jul 2014 #60

We're actually quite well, but thank you. hunter Jul 2014 #77

Curious....have you considered debt resolution or personal bancruptcey?.... clarice Jul 2014 #79

Good God. www.marxists.org leftstreet Jul 2014 #28

Please respect my opinion in not advocating a system.... clarice Jul 2014 #29

You've given no opinion leftstreet Jul 2014 #31

Respectfully, clarice Jul 2014 #32

You are certainly entitled to your 'beliefs' leftstreet Jul 2014 #36

Peace Out. nt clarice Jul 2014 #39

Might one consider Central America quaker bill Jul 2014 #126

Yes you are quite right...... clarice Jul 2014 #128

BS BlindTiresias Jul 2014 #131

Interesting link... clarice Jul 2014 #132

Questionable methodology BlindTiresias Jul 2014 #135

I'm not sure of those figures either...as to the rest...we can respectfully disagree. ... clarice Jul 2014 #136

Which figures? BlindTiresias Jul 2014 #137

sorry, I meant the wikipedia figures. nt clarice Jul 2014 #138

when and where do you start counting? quaker bill Jul 2014 #150

That's funny! BillZBubb Jul 2014 #153

LOL tenderfoot Jul 2014 #63

Love it !!! Using as a screen saver. Thanks. nt clarice Jul 2014 #64

You should use it as your avatar - it fits you too a tee. tenderfoot Jul 2014 #81

Thanks...is it because we are both so cute? nt clarice Jul 2014 #83

Absolutely, in an OBVIOUS TROLLY kind of way! tenderfoot Jul 2014 #86

You are certainly taking liberties with someone whom you don't know. nt clarice Jul 2014 #87

It's what she does. /nt pintobean Jul 2014 #95

Pinto, is she the crazy lady who keeps getting thrown off of DU? nt clarice Jul 2014 #104

No. She did a voluntary start over pintobean Jul 2014 #113

Me too. peace. nt clarice Jul 2014 #114

I think you spotted one! nt BillZBubb Jul 2014 #154

true capitalism requires vigorous competition, which requires oversight and regulation unblock Jul 2014 #13

I like what you describe, but might it be more Deny and Shred Jul 2014 #47

adam smith was anti-monopoly and originally, competition *was* the "invisible hand". unblock Jul 2014 #55

Semantics really. Deny and Shred Jul 2014 #76

It's pretty much designed to. Starry Messenger Jul 2014 #17

Yes. Pretty much by definition. truebrit71 Jul 2014 #20

Inevitably? Since I left my stash of infinite universes in my other purse, I can't tell you that. winter is coming Jul 2014 #23

Not inevitably, but usually. HooptieWagon Jul 2014 #24

Are there any systems that do not produce inequalities? (nt) Nye Bevan Jul 2014 #26

.... TBF Jul 2014 #52

You should start an OP asking that question leftstreet Jul 2014 #53

probably not. However we have operated under a post world war II assumption that Warren Stupidity Jul 2014 #85

Unregulated capitalism? Yep. abelenkpe Jul 2014 #30

Hell Yes! Capitalism Does Inevitably Produce Inequalities. hunter Jul 2014 #35

Yes. Xolodno Jul 2014 #38

Of course it does. n/t PowerToThePeople Jul 2014 #42

That's what it's for! FiveGoodMen Jul 2014 #45

Piketty argues that without explicit policies to address inequality Warren Stupidity Jul 2014 #46

Makes sense to me intuitively. nt BootinUp Jul 2014 #57

Of course - the system is designed to reward only TBF Jul 2014 #51

It starts with inequality at its inception and only broadens the gap if Skidmore Jul 2014 #54

which then ironically undermines any circulation, leading to vapor lock nt MisterP Jul 2014 #74

It does the way we do it. DirkGently Jul 2014 #80

Of course it does. Workers who provide ROI have no say in profit distributions, which are ancianita Jul 2014 #82

Inequity is inherent in capitalism due to its system of profit it causes by disadvantaging another ancianita Jul 2014 #84

Every system produces inequalities LittleBlue Jul 2014 #88

Ah, yes, the usual Randian venture capitalist talking points. Gravitycollapse Jul 2014 #90

You need to study economics before attempting a serious discussion on this LittleBlue Jul 2014 #93

Which "system" specifically do you think I'm defending? Gravitycollapse Jul 2014 #94

By "study economics", you mean the neo-liberal, Freidmanist bullshit.......... socialist_n_TN Jul 2014 #121

You mean every Stalinist based communist system....... socialist_n_TN Jul 2014 #124

What system would you say France operates under? Hippo_Tron Jul 2014 #120

I read somewhere YarnAddict Jul 2014 #91

People inevitably produce inequalities Silent3 Jul 2014 #92

The answer is yes-unless corrected by democratic institutions and public services YoungDemCA Jul 2014 #97

Reality and anything in it produces inequality. Tetris_Iguana Jul 2014 #99

Yes. It's built on inequality. Been saying this for years. *So sue me!* freshwest Jul 2014 #100

Yes, of course BlindTiresias Jul 2014 #101

I think every system eventually corrupts itself Marrah_G Jul 2014 #110

That's like asking if beans inevitably produce farts. rug Jul 2014 #119

It certainly does, although the countries with the least inequality are also capitalist economies. pampango Jul 2014 #123

Yes. jwirr Jul 2014 #125

“The comfort of the rich depends upon an abundant supply of the poor.” ― Voltaire Tierra_y_Libertad Jul 2014 #140

Always, it is founded on inequality, the owners and the owned. nt bemildred Jul 2014 #141

Without massive govt interference, yes! Yavin4 Jul 2014 #142

Absolutely. Ed Suspicious Jul 2014 #145

It does if you don't have any rules to protect the middle and lower class Rex Jul 2014 #155

By definition capitalism creates inequalities. Why is there any question about this? BillZBubb Jul 2014 #156

When left unchecked, as it has been of late, yes. n/t Lady Freedom Returns Jul 2014 #158

Capitalism is by its own admission Shankapotomus Jul 2014 #159

A better question would have been "does capitalism inevitably produce injustice" quaker bill Jul 2014 #160