General Discussion

ConservativeDemocrat

(2,720 posts)

309. If this were the "President's plan"... he wouldn't have withdrawn it

Sat Feb 22, 2014, 03:22 PM

Feb 2014

And negotiation is not like poker, where you "push a bet into the pot" and "call" bets with hole cards, the flop, etc. Seriously, I knew you were disassociated from reality, but I really didn't expect it to be this bad.

Let me be clear: Negotiation is where you do something you don't want if the other side does something they don't want. Republicans don't want to raise taxes, especially on the rich. Democrats (including the President) don't want to cut SS benefits, including different calculations of Cost of Living increases.

The President put a Republican-demanded SS on the table and asked what he could get. The GOP, knowing that even their base doesn't want SS cut, demanded that the President pretend that this was his idea - when it clearly was not - so that they could blame him. He refused, and they immediately showed (not just to us, but to the beltway) that they weren't being serious negotiators, not just by refusing to give anything on their side, but by attacking him over it.

Today, the public outside of the D.U. agrees that it is the Republicans who are the problem. Whereas two years ago that wasn't the case.

> "Why do you hate our seniors?"
Have you considered seeing a doctor, rhett? Mental health benefits are now part of the ACA. Just a thought.

- C.D. Proud Member of the Reality Based Community

Edit history

Please sign in to view edit histories.

Recommendations

0 members have recommended this reply (displayed in chronological order):

316 replies

= new reply since forum marked as read

Highlight:

Does this really need to be explained on a liberal dem discussion site? yep. [View all] cali Feb 2014 OP

Amen jsr Feb 2014 #1

you tell him, cali! Whisp Feb 2014 #2

This message was self-deleted by its author Cali_Democrat Feb 2014 #7

Horseshit. No one has said Obama has cut SS. Plenty of people have said he has offered it up Autumn Feb 2014 #12

This message was self-deleted by its author Cali_Democrat Feb 2014 #15

This message was self-deleted by its author Maedhros Feb 2014 #26

I will call it what I want, you lied. Autumn Feb 2014 #33

Why isn't your mom getting Isoldeblue Feb 2014 #130

My Husband gets his just like clockwork. Never fails, it just shows up like magic. Autumn Feb 2014 #134

Same here.... Isoldeblue Feb 2014 #136

I bet Cali_Democrat is confusing SSI disability checks with Social Security retirement checks. pnwmom Feb 2014 #142

I would think that he/she would Isoldeblue Feb 2014 #144

I know a couple of people on SSI disability checks and they have had Autumn Feb 2014 #162

But those checks could be stopped if the SSI people decided the disability no longer applied, pnwmom Feb 2014 #167

That's the way it works. But they have deleted their posts now Autumn Feb 2014 #169

I think it was an honest mistake, since both payments are made by the Social Security administration pnwmom Feb 2014 #170

You are a nice person to give them the benefit of doubt. A person here long Autumn Feb 2014 #172

exactly rbrnmw Feb 2014 #270

This message was self-deleted by its author Cali_Democrat Feb 2014 #160

Mine hasn't been stopped or cut. Actually I got a slight increase. Slight.. 2banon Feb 2014 #271

This message was self-deleted by its author Autumn Feb 2014 #275

Sorry, I was somewhat confused with the different posts. 2banon Feb 2014 #276

Cali, on a scale of 1-brazillion, OilemFirchen Feb 2014 #70

Child needs his woobie. Ed Suspicious Feb 2014 #82

Are you confusing SSI disability payments --which can be stopped if someone's disability improves -- pnwmom Feb 2014 #141

Yes. He did cut social security, as I recall: grahamhgreen Feb 2014 #224

Obama can't unilaterally increase the COLA adjustment, which was set by Congress. pnwmom Feb 2014 #238

I guess you have nothing meaningful to say, so you just post nonsense. nm rhett o rick Feb 2014 #42

This message was self-deleted by its author Cali_Democrat Feb 2014 #61

Some people get off on smearing other DUers and some public figures Autumn Feb 2014 #63

When they become absurd, I smell desperation. They have no rational arguments so they rhett o rick Feb 2014 #85

I'm beginning to observe a certain level of irrational thought processeses in play.. 2banon Feb 2014 #272

I dont think it's any more complicated that just plain authoritarianism. rhett o rick Feb 2014 #279

I agree with you completely.. 2banon Feb 2014 #290

I didnt get it to mean that SS was dead, but that having a Democratic president offer it up rhett o rick Feb 2014 #291

I see. THAT Point I do agree with! 2banon Feb 2014 #292

Come back tomorrow and we will be at something else. rhett o rick Feb 2014 #295

Good morning! 2banon Feb 2014 #300

And a hearty good morning to yourself. I have no delusion that we will defeat the giant, but rhett o rick Feb 2014 #303

Do you have a link for that? I'm not aware of any Obama-decreed cuts to Social Security. nt pnwmom Feb 2014 #138

here grahamhgreen Feb 2014 #226

That's disingenuous at best. OilemFirchen Feb 2014 #232

There isn't a cut on the list and all the figures are the result of laws passed by Congress. pnwmom Feb 2014 #237

Well damn cali. That was easy Autumn Feb 2014 #3

godammit........... NM_Birder Feb 2014 #4

so sorry, but I don't do boob discussions. I consider all that a diversion. cali Feb 2014 #6

;) NM_Birder Feb 2014 #8

Hmmm. I construe that to mean something terrible. Have you no shame? rhett o rick Feb 2014 #44

Me too. Enthusiast Feb 2014 #114

It's really just that simple. n/t Nuclear Unicorn Feb 2014 #5

No it's not! See Post 99 ... 1StrongBlackMan Feb 2014 #103

We made him do peace with Syria! grahamhgreen Feb 2014 #228

Yeah, Okay ... 1StrongBlackMan Feb 2014 #245

Alright, I'll back off... He does seem to be coming on board, let's hope grahamhgreen Feb 2014 #278

It's hard for me to imagine anything more damaging to the Democratic "brand" .... Scuba Feb 2014 #9

You just dont get it. rhett o rick Feb 2014 #53

You do know he never offered it right? I can't see why the White House says it's off the table now. Autumn Feb 2014 #74

I am so confused. Hey, isnt the White House inanimate? nm rhett o rick Feb 2014 #79

When? n/t pnwmom Feb 2014 #168

no kidding why do u think he did it. it's for that reason, pave the way,make it easier for the leftyohiolib Feb 2014 #10

Oh, ProSense Feb 2014 #11

your use of Sanders invariably cracks me up cali Feb 2014 #13

LOL! ProSense Feb 2014 #14

sorry, pro, but I do know, and you do not, my darling friend. cali Feb 2014 #16

LOL! ProSense Feb 2014 #17

Well, bless your heart... MineralMan Feb 2014 #40

You remember what Barney Frank said about arguing with a Dining Room table? donheld Feb 2014 #240

It was annoying when Kucinich would play politics, too. It lends these charlatans Egalitarian Thug Feb 2014 #18

Do you actually read what you write? DeSwiss Feb 2014 #20

Yes, it was spot on. ProSense Feb 2014 #32

+10000 Not only that, the threats were used to implement real austerity. woo me with science Feb 2014 #19

thank you so much for that post- though of course it will be ignored by the adoring fans cali Feb 2014 #21

Still blaming Democrats for what the Republicans do, I see ConservativeDemocrat Feb 2014 #78

You clearly misunderstand. Looks like she likes Democrats just fine. But conservatives, not so much. rhett o rick Feb 2014 #83

Perhaps, she doesn't approve of Democrats pushing Republican policies. Broward Feb 2014 #126

this Liberalynn Feb 2014 #133

So compromising is "pushing"... gotcha... ConservativeDemocrat Feb 2014 #178

So is compromising on Social Security "reasonable?" Broward Feb 2014 #183

I feel left out ... 1StrongBlackMan Feb 2014 #204

Conservatives want to privatize Social Security. You call yourself a conservative, does rhett o rick Feb 2014 #296

If this were the "President's plan"... he wouldn't have withdrawn it ConservativeDemocrat Feb 2014 #309

And once again you use insults to try to hide that you are not committing yourself. rhett o rick Feb 2014 #310

Here is a classic example of Poe's Law ConservativeDemocrat Feb 2014 #311

Once again a long post without any statement of commitment. rhett o rick Feb 2014 #312

I can be happy when there is good news creeksneakers2 Feb 2014 #217

+1 deutsey Feb 2014 #27

Every Democrat, every American, should be sick of the constant Third Way implication KoKo Feb 2014 #87

Thank you. 840high Feb 2014 #154

Indeed tea and oranges Feb 2014 #166

It is the answer to something! Maedhros Feb 2014 #212

+1,000 WCLinolVir Feb 2014 #247

Sounds like you are angry that ... JoePhilly Feb 2014 #22

no. I'm angry at the defender adorer types. it's that simple cali Feb 2014 #28

Oh no, the hater types are "angry at the defender adorer types"!!! ProSense Feb 2014 #35

I actually expected the "OMG, Obama is about to kill ... JoePhilly Feb 2014 #41

I think its all the pent up anger making you ill. JoePhilly Feb 2014 #38

+1. n/t FSogol Feb 2014 #47

How dare you for being right!!! OilemFirchen Feb 2014 #57

2015 SOTU. This time for sure...nt SidDithers Feb 2014 #257

I think the anger (of at least some) is The Green Manalishi Feb 2014 #283

You're kidding yourself if you think this OP and their dwindling fans will stop Number23 Feb 2014 #293

IMHO, the disconnect comes from President Obama being exactly what he is cali. fleabiscuit Feb 2014 #66

Welcome to DU ... please enlighten us about how we JoePhilly Feb 2014 #91

Thank you for the welcome JoePhilly. I'm starting to settle in. fleabiscuit Feb 2014 #146

They make me ill too and really degrade this board. Mojorabbit Feb 2014 #104

Yes. I see that too. laundry_queen Feb 2014 #171

Well if it was Poof all gone zeemike Feb 2014 #36

Whatever help folks ... JoePhilly Feb 2014 #43

+1 n/t Isoldeblue Feb 2014 #124

Even if he did withdraw the proposal, it should never have been on the table in the first place eridani Feb 2014 #219

The programs exist ... JoePhilly Feb 2014 #258

DEMOCRATS don't put it on the table;; Republicans do. eridani Feb 2014 #261

How is it playing chicken? JoePhilly Feb 2014 #262

Social Security is too critical to EVER be used that way by a Democrat, period. n/t eridani Feb 2014 #297

And the wheel of outrage lands on....... Social Security!!....nt SidDithers Feb 2014 #23

The threads on this Obama outrage are absolutely hilarious!!! JoePhilly Feb 2014 #30

You must lack reading comprehension skills. Chained CPI is STILL on the table. djean111 Feb 2014 #55

Social Security exists. The GOP hates it. JoePhilly Feb 2014 #62

No offense, but unless you are actually OBAMA, you are in no position to say definitively djean111 Feb 2014 #65

Same is true of those who have been SURE ... JoePhilly Feb 2014 #84

Well, you nailed the part about not trusting him. djean111 Feb 2014 #96

I get the sense that the folks making chess references ... JoePhilly Feb 2014 #100

It's always on *their* table. progressoid Feb 2014 #86

There is no table ... you do know that, right? JoePhilly Feb 2014 #88

All of this "but he put it on the table" stuff is nonsense? progressoid Feb 2014 #90

The President dangled a carrot ... and the GOP was TERRIFIED JoePhilly Feb 2014 #95

So you agree this "put it on the table stuff" isn't nonsense. progressoid Feb 2014 #101

Perhaps if someone explained WHY CCPI won't go anywhere ... 1StrongBlackMan Feb 2014 #207

it's still on the table. he didn't foreswear future cuts and sign in blood Pretzel_Warrior Feb 2014 #149

Hey place your bets ... JoePhilly Feb 2014 #46

And your outrage lands on what others have to say. How easy to never commit oneself. rhett o rick Feb 2014 #304

... SidDithers Feb 2014 #306

Perfect. I rest my case. nm rhett o rick Feb 2014 #307

... SidDithers Feb 2014 #313

Sometimes you need to shout it out. zeemike Feb 2014 #24

thanks. cali Feb 2014 #31

The emoprog's lament: OilemFirchen Feb 2014 #25

how about actually responding the the point, dear? if you're going to cali Feb 2014 #39

I'll respond to the "point" sweetheart. OilemFirchen Feb 2014 #45

cupcake, you didn't respond- because you aren't capable of doing so cali Feb 2014 #50

To quote Ann Richards: OilemFirchen Feb 2014 #67

That was in no way a response to the point. n/t cui bono Feb 2014 #180

You mean the GOP wasn't going to target Social Security? JoePhilly Feb 2014 #54

Well, you survived a jury decision (just barely) etherealtruth Feb 2014 #115

Whew! OilemFirchen Feb 2014 #117

You clearly are not interested in elevating the discourse at DU etherealtruth Feb 2014 #120

And you've "elevated the discourse" on this thread... OilemFirchen Feb 2014 #145

emoprog is hilarious. get used to it. Pretzel_Warrior Feb 2014 #148

I have just grown tired of the idiotic name calling etherealtruth Feb 2014 #155

you obviously have a point. Pretzel_Warrior Feb 2014 #157

LOL ... you brought huge smile to my face! etherealtruth Feb 2014 #159

What can I say? DeSwiss Feb 2014 #29

Shout it out cali !!!!!!!!!!! SamKnause Feb 2014 #34

Clinton wanted to "reform" SS just like he "reformed" welfare. redqueen Feb 2014 #37

... and now, let's attack Obama for what he didn't do, OilemFirchen Feb 2014 #49

it only has to be explained until 2017 Skittles Feb 2014 #48

Oh Skittles Autumn Feb 2014 #52

these hypocrites make me sick Skittles Feb 2014 #58

+1 WCLinolVir Feb 2014 #248

What the heck, sadoldgirl Feb 2014 #51

And it tarnishes the Democratic "brand" for lack of a better term. progressoid Feb 2014 #56

Vote for The Party That Wanted To But Hasn't Cut Your Social Security Yet. jsr Feb 2014 #60

Don't vote. Better message, right? ProSense Feb 2014 #68

Nobody said that. progressoid Feb 2014 #92

Obama is a murderer .... He's killing JoePhilly Feb 2014 #161

But this thread isn't about drones. n/t cui bono Feb 2014 #182

Post removed Post removed Feb 2014 #252

You have a lot of fucking nerve calling someone a liar. Get the fuck over yourself. n/t ProSense Feb 2014 #254

Remember me, huh? Dawgs Feb 2014 #263

Not really, the platform is against cuts. joshcryer Feb 2014 #221

LOL Pretzel_Warrior Feb 2014 #59

Nobody is whining that Obama finally took Chained CPI off the table. djean111 Feb 2014 #64

Yep. Kinda like being grateful that your spouse didn't poison your coffee after all. Tierra_y_Libertad Feb 2014 #69

Yep. Kinda like being grateful that your spouse didn't poison your coffee after all. djean111 Feb 2014 #71

But it's a very good and expensive poison. jsr Feb 2014 #75

All the serious, responsible people agree that you should be poisoned. QC Feb 2014 #147

Fiscal responsibility demands it. jsr Feb 2014 #151

So here, drink the coffee now and stop being so selfish. QC Feb 2014 #152

All together now: "THE GREATER GOOD!" (as in Hot Fuzz, the movie) Divernan Feb 2014 #153

Precisely. jsr Feb 2014 #72

That's analogy FAIL. ProSense Feb 2014 #93

+1 progressoid Feb 2014 #123

I'm glad the President has decided not to put chained CPI in his budget this year. stage left Feb 2014 #73

Thank Senator Bernie Sanders mc51tc Feb 2014 #76

My head hurts. democrank Feb 2014 #77

lol. Great analogy! n/t jtuck004 Feb 2014 #81

HAHA, exactly. Many in this thread, that's for sure. nt laundry_queen Feb 2014 #176

full ignore for all of them bobduca Feb 2014 #225

Right! Now it will always be on the table. The pukes will always be shooting for it. It used to Ed Suspicious Feb 2014 #80

Yea, the GOP wasn't shoting for Social Security until Obama. JoePhilly Feb 2014 #89

See the history lesson in comment 107. n/t ProSense Feb 2014 #109

how old are you? ellennelle Feb 2014 #94

"what little obama offered was a scruffy little pawn" jsr Feb 2014 #98

uh, no.... ellennelle Feb 2014 #112

I'm glad you find the sacrifice of the poor at the altar of the 1% entertaining jsr Feb 2014 #121

Is it me, or is there a brand new cadre of shiny new user names Maedhros Feb 2014 #214

note who hands out atta-boy's to these new felt-covered personas? bobduca Feb 2014 #227

Who? OilemFirchen Feb 2014 #234

Yeah I should name them specifically right? bobduca Feb 2014 #266

Funny Bobbie Jo Feb 2014 #308

You nailed it, beautifully! Isoldeblue Feb 2014 #179

thanks for an excellent post…one of the ones that help make sense of BlancheSplanchnik Feb 2014 #202

Ellen, thanks for posting davidpdx Feb 2014 #249

You're a sad one cali grinch. great white snark Feb 2014 #97

Perhaps if someone explained WHY CCPI won't go anywhere ... 1StrongBlackMan Feb 2014 #99

good explanation..thank you! BlancheSplanchnik Feb 2014 #201

But it's being ignored ... 1StrongBlackMan Feb 2014 #210

Yup! truebrit71 Feb 2014 #102

"super dimensional chess" greytdemocrat Feb 2014 #105

HUGE K & R !!! - THANK YOU !!! WillyT Feb 2014 #106

Carter was the last Democratic President to lower Social Security benefits. ProSense Feb 2014 #107

Your welcome to your own opinion. nt ecstatic Feb 2014 #108

I tried drilling that into there skulls at the time stupidicus Feb 2014 #110

It might be a disease albino65 Feb 2014 #111

Those people will soil themselves screaming from the rafters davidpdx Feb 2014 #253

K&R! This post should have hundreds of recommendations! Enthusiast Feb 2014 #113

Kick, because yes it has to be explained. Autumn Feb 2014 #116

I'm saying he never intended to go through with the cuts. greiner3 Feb 2014 #118

I used to think the role of a pragmatic progressive was to... RufusTFirefly Feb 2014 #119

Once a dem put it on the table, it will be put on the table again until they take the cleaver to it. CrispyQ Feb 2014 #122

That's the beauty of chess or whatever church members call it. jsr Feb 2014 #125

You just go right on ahead and blame James Earl Carter for that. He did it. Autumn Feb 2014 #128

Well, ProSense Feb 2014 #129

So GW Bush tried to privatize SS JoePhilly Feb 2014 #163

K&R! Phlem Feb 2014 #127

AUTOMATED MESSAGE: Results of your Jury Service LittleBlue Feb 2014 #131

Denigrating chess skills = blasphemy jsr Feb 2014 #135

Well Obama is no Magnus Carlsen. edbermac Feb 2014 #156

they couldn't describe any detail while they were having a case of the vapors Skittles Feb 2014 #186

Is Cali on some groups auto alert list? L0oniX Feb 2014 #209

don't give them ideas. cali Feb 2014 #267

Here: ProSense Feb 2014 #132

It's still ON the table spedtr90 Feb 2014 #137

It's better to be feared by Democrats and loved by Republicans. jsr Feb 2014 #143

This is why there is Isoldeblue Feb 2014 #139

Yep. nt Demo_Chris Feb 2014 #140

hey, dear. some type of social security reform is inevitable Pretzel_Warrior Feb 2014 #150

Why will they happen? fleabiscuit Feb 2014 #164

fleabiscuit rhymes with seabiscuit Pretzel_Warrior Feb 2014 #165

It's genesis. I've been sporting the moniker for some time. fleabiscuit Feb 2014 #173

I'll say it again, as I have said it many times before. Ikonoklast Feb 2014 #158

They're ProSense Feb 2014 #174

I was trying to be nice. Ikonoklast Feb 2014 #175

LOL, yes, we LOVE it when Obama is a disappointment. n-t Logical Feb 2014 #184

At the end of the day, Obama, chessmaster, wins. ProSense Feb 2014 #191

He was the one t hat proposed them. No cuts was the default position. TheKentuckian Feb 2014 #301

LOL, so when Obama does something right we should praise him, but when he does something wrong.... Logical Feb 2014 #185

Woooosh. Ikonoklast Feb 2014 #187

Yes, your logic exiting the room. n-t Logical Feb 2014 #188

Have you ever been involved in high-end negotiations? Ikonoklast Feb 2014 #193

. ProSense Feb 2014 #190

Exactly. Bobbie Jo Feb 2014 #208

And the 250 recs just makes it all that much more absurdly delicious Number23 Feb 2014 #294

+1,000. BHO legitimized hacking away at Social Security and the Safety Net, DEM & GOP alike. blkmusclmachine Feb 2014 #177

So that's why Bush tried to privatize SS ... THANKS OBAMA! JoePhilly Feb 2014 #205

I don't get it Loaded Liberal Dem Feb 2014 #181

Hey, Cali! I noticed you're missing from this thread: jazzimov Feb 2014 #189

So there was no risk to offering Chained CPI DJ13 Feb 2014 #244

I think you're making a bigger deal out of it than it is Hippo_Tron Feb 2014 #192

Sometimes the truth is blunt. Good job, keep it up! marble falls Feb 2014 #194

Now, now Cali, if you aren't grateful the budget doesn't include the misguided and stupid policy TheKentuckian Feb 2014 #195

Clearly, ProSense Feb 2014 #199

Relieved and praising are not the same thing, Pro. TheKentuckian Feb 2014 #287

He puts SS cuts on the table LiberalElite Feb 2014 #196

“I'll change, I promise” jsr Feb 2014 #198

You are 100% correct on this... ljm2002 Feb 2014 #197

+1000 bobduca Feb 2014 #200

Your post would mean something if evidence mattered to you. HuckleB Feb 2014 #203

thank you for explaining this. As preposterous as it may seem - some people here genuinely Douglas Carpenter Feb 2014 #206

Repetition is key. It makes the idea mainstream and makes eventual cuts inevitable. jsr Feb 2014 #211

"EXACTLY" The mainstream media and the pundits of the "sensible center" have been pushing Douglas Carpenter Feb 2014 #213

You know what's ProSense Feb 2014 #215

then he shouldn't have proposed cuts to Social Security benefits in next years budget and Douglas Carpenter Feb 2014 #222

What are you talking about? n/t ProSense Feb 2014 #223

Top of the Greatest Page. Thank you, Cali. woo me with science Feb 2014 #216

That's correct. Defining the issue in terms of cuts is 100% right-wing. delrem Feb 2014 #218

I would only qualify that by specifying on economic issues the right-wing has achieved total victory Douglas Carpenter Feb 2014 #229

That is why Obama can "evolve" on the cultural issues, Maedhros Feb 2014 #235

Campaign promise kept. joshcryer Feb 2014 #220

It's a great post by cali and a fine analysis. vlakitti Feb 2014 #230

Yes. He did cut social security, as I recall: grahamhgreen Feb 2014 #231

Thank you. nt woo me with science Feb 2014 #239

Just wait until TPP kicks in... pragmatic_dem Feb 2014 #233

It's hard to keep track of which team is in what color uniform anymore. jsr Feb 2014 #236

700K jobs lost due to NAFTA - TBF Feb 2014 #269

Related: Slums of China and India pragmatic_dem Feb 2014 #289

Thank you. It's unbelievable that anyone would even TRY to 'explain' why he has 'taken it off the sabrina 1 Feb 2014 #241

This is funny ProSense Feb 2014 #242

Are you saying Obama was lying?? Are you stating we should not believe him when he sabrina 1 Feb 2014 #243

Not only ProSense Feb 2014 #250

No, I am asking you, because you are the one telling us this President sabrina 1 Feb 2014 #268

Chess my ass, look at this Autumn Feb 2014 #259

Great post from Bvar as usual. I remember the last convoluted chess story re CPI sabrina 1 Feb 2014 #288

+10000000 woo me with science Feb 2014 #298

Chess, look at this: ProSense Feb 2014 #305

Obama's advocacy of SS cuts is not new, it turns out... woo me with science Feb 2014 #314

Chess my ass, look at this Autumn Feb 2014 #259

Even though the Obama we all see and hear meanit Feb 2014 #246

It's no secret: jsr Feb 2014 #264

So what you're saying is you don't like Obama because he's black? Puzzledtraveller Feb 2014 #251

Don't joke about that. n/t ProSense Feb 2014 #255

Let me apologize up front ProSense Feb 2014 #256

Oh, I get it. "Explain"=self-righteous rant. JNelson6563 Feb 2014 #265

Julie..it hurts to see what's going on... KoKo Feb 2014 #316

Yes. aquart Feb 2014 #273

Social Security Reform has always been legitimate, Progressive dog Feb 2014 #274

It's been brought up since FDR. This BS needs to stop. nt kelliekat44 Feb 2014 #281

There is no way to fix this in any system of government nt Progressive dog Feb 2014 #284

i agree.... madrchsod Feb 2014 #277

Thanks for saying so swilton Feb 2014 #280

There are many forms of ODS. Jakes Progress Feb 2014 #282

Not really, only a handful here refuse to get the obvious. Rex Feb 2014 #285

And don't forget that before we were presented with the latest explanation as to why sabrina 1 Feb 2014 #286

Well said. woo me with science Feb 2014 #299

Yep. LWolf Feb 2014 #302

The Spin out there in the MSM/MSNBC, also....is that he Played Superior Chess KoKo Feb 2014 #315