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woo me with science

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29. +1 Or banks. nt

Reply to AnotherMcIntosh (Reply #22)

Sat Aug 10, 2013, 01:59 AM

Aug 2013

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Where did the meme come from that civil disobedience requires you to sit in jail afterwards? [View all] backscatter712 Aug 2013 OP

Exactly. The downsides of the civil rights era can't compare. dkf Aug 2013 #1

Only because you did not face them. n/t 1StrongBlackMan Aug 2013 #134

+1 Egalitarian Thug Aug 2013 #143

The risks were higher from the public than from the government. dkf Aug 2013 #151

you have no fucking clue what you are talking about Californeeway Aug 2013 #208

Was that the Government who did that? dkf Aug 2013 #209

I disagree with the dismissive wording of the post you are responding to. antigone382 Aug 2013 #210

You're absolutely right. Th1onein Aug 2013 #2

Just since the NSA apologist Democrat occupying the WH took over from his criminal MotherPetrie Aug 2013 #3

Post removed Post removed Aug 2013 #5

I'm willing to believe agent46 Aug 2013 #23

Agree, we really IMO see so little of what is really going on behind the scenes, the pressures, the RKP5637 Aug 2013 #82

He is the head of the Democratic Party, so as a factual matter geek tragedy Aug 2013 #26

"The vast majority of Democratd" HangOnKids Aug 2013 #46

It's bad form to make fun of someone just because of a simple typo. n/t totodeinhere Aug 2013 #204

Yes, we do reject the fringe that has suddenly appeared over the past few years supporting sabrina 1 Aug 2013 #126

The Democrats have always had a Conservadem fringe. geek tragedy Aug 2013 #140

Yes, and they didn't control the party, otherwise we would never have had SS, Civil Rights sabrina 1 Aug 2013 #152

+ a gazillion. nt Mojorabbit Aug 2013 #170

President Obama is a Trojan Horse? Care to expand on that meme? nt msanthrope Aug 2013 #60

Please do at least consider the possibility that Cheney's NSA got the drop on him starting in, oh, HardTimes99 Aug 2013 #64

I'll say it again: Bill Hicks called it! backscatter712 Aug 2013 #166

Yup. progressoid Aug 2013 #27

Having the courage of your convictions. Furthermore, standing for trial would enable much more info KittyWampus Aug 2013 #4

"standing for trial would enable much more info to come out" cthulu2016 Aug 2013 #8

Plenty... KharmaTrain Aug 2013 #94

Yeah right! mazzarro Aug 2013 #144

Once Again... KharmaTrain Aug 2013 #150

Someone who did exactly as you are suggesting Snowden do, Drake, who went through sabrina 1 Aug 2013 #172

Then He Is And Will Remain A Fugitive... KharmaTrain Aug 2013 #175

BS MattSh Aug 2013 #43

Did Manning's trial enable much more info to come out? muriel_volestrangler Aug 2013 #50

Quite a bit. If you take a look at his sentencing hearing, Manning has benefitted msanthrope Aug 2013 #58

"Open testimony in court" didn't prevent Manning from being tortured while in pre-trial HardTimes99 Aug 2013 #66

Kindly show me where his lawyer claims 'torture?' nt msanthrope Aug 2013 #70

The Article 13 Motion filed in 2012 . . . markpkessinger Aug 2013 #110

So, his lawyer isn't using the word 'torture' in his legal filings? Being a lawyer myself, I know msanthrope Aug 2013 #119

Not a word of what you wrote is true. morningfog Aug 2013 #56

+1...nt SidDithers Aug 2013 #74

The man had courage of his convictions enough to be willing . . . markpkessinger Aug 2013 #103

I doubt it. The judge would probably agree to censoring what information comes out in the totodeinhere Aug 2013 #205

If a person decides to commit felonies they should man-up and take responsibility... Tx4obama Aug 2013 #6

Oh jezuz... Like draft dodging? Smoking pot? cthulu2016 Aug 2013 #9

Excellent response to this meme! nt Pholus Aug 2013 #52

+Infinity! - nt HardTimes99 Aug 2013 #67

+1000000 nt Tien1985 Aug 2013 #92

Letter from Birmingham Jail is pretty instructive-- msanthrope Aug 2013 #146

Prior to 1962, sodomy was a felony in every state, punished by a lengthy term of imprisonment Zorra Aug 2013 #16

"Man-up" Hissyspit Aug 2013 #18

Okay, so everyone who has a noteworthy amount of weed should turn themselves in? Scootaloo Aug 2013 #25

There is a huge difference between treestar Aug 2013 #59

Nope. Felony is felony. Scootaloo Aug 2013 #179

Why? dairydog91 Aug 2013 #79

Underground Railroad, big time illegal action. Fugitive Slave Act of 1850. Bluenorthwest Aug 2013 #81

I'm handling the amorality of what they are saying with the ignore function. Zorra Aug 2013 #124

Especially ... 1StrongBlackMan Aug 2013 #142

Well, ProSense Aug 2013 #7

My impression was that Snowden wasn't trying to be like MLK or Gandhi. gtar100 Aug 2013 #41

Whether or not John Lewis approves of Snowden's actions... ljm2002 Aug 2013 #130

Daniel Ellsberg seems to agree: backscatter712 Aug 2013 #10

"The country...was a different America". With far different Democrats. n/t jtuck004 Aug 2013 #11

Good point. nt MannyGoldstein Aug 2013 #12

I do believe it's part of what gives moral authority mythology Aug 2013 #13

Snowden is paying a price. backscatter712 Aug 2013 #15

Don't forget 'force feedings' (currently being used on Gitmo hunger strikers) - nt HardTimes99 Aug 2013 #69

Gandhi and King and Lewis had millions at their backs Scootaloo Aug 2013 #36

Indeed they did! And they also weren't facing the likelihood of spending . . . markpkessinger Aug 2013 #105

They were facing death. Snowden merely faces prison. He's a coward. nt msanthrope Aug 2013 #132

Ghandi, King, and Lewis faced death. Death. Snowden faces due process. He's a coward. nt msanthrope Aug 2013 #139

What an odd standard you hold Scootaloo Aug 2013 #178

I have no patience for cowards who flee the US legal system. And he is a coward. nt msanthrope Aug 2013 #180

I'm so glad for you that you're such a tough, principled person Scootaloo Aug 2013 #182

Likening an Obama supporter to a gorilla is principled? That's awesome. nt msanthrope Aug 2013 #184

Well, you're the one grunting and thumping your chest Scootaloo Aug 2013 #187

Okay--so now, you are telling a female Obama supporter she's acting like a gorilla? nt msanthrope Aug 2013 #188

You need to make up your mind exactly what it is you're trying so hard to be offended by Scootaloo Aug 2013 #189

Let me see if I have this correctly--I called Edward Snowden a coward, and you, who are not msanthrope Aug 2013 #190

I'm trying to figure out what your argument is Scootaloo Aug 2013 #198

Why are you so offended by my calling Snowden a coward, and why would you think to call another DUer msanthrope Aug 2013 #199

I'm not offended. Bemused, sure. Amused, definitely Scootaloo Aug 2013 #202

Now you've called me a 'penis.' What is up with you? In your lecture to us on porn, msanthrope Aug 2013 #203

Now you're just getting desperate Scootaloo Aug 2013 #206

I find people who flee lawful indictments to be cowards. He isn't facing death--he's facing msanthrope Aug 2013 #207

apartheid & segregation were things the majority initially *knew* were going on, but believed HiPointDem Aug 2013 #49

This ^^^^ treestar Aug 2013 #63

It's a possible choice. But it's not "civil disobedience" unless you subject yourself to the pnwmom Aug 2013 #14

Well what Snowden did was not civil disobedience. zeemike Aug 2013 #17

He didn't just blow the whistle on something that was unconstitutional. pnwmom Aug 2013 #19

Oh, no one is suppose to mention that.. that's not part of the St snowden bio.. Cha Aug 2013 #21

What information did he leak about Russia? muriel_volestrangler Aug 2013 #51

It is not his call treestar Aug 2013 #65

Yes it is his call. zeemike Aug 2013 #102

Snowden isn't in the military so he couldn't have been put in a military prison. pnwmom Aug 2013 #153

It is his call... ljm2002 Aug 2013 #135

The Whistleblower Protection Act doesn't cover national security contractors riderinthestorm Aug 2013 #141

Au contraire. "Policy-based" civil disobedience occurs when a person breaks the law in order to Zorra Aug 2013 #149

It's not a "meme".. it's the law.. if you commit a crime you're subject to the Cha Aug 2013 #20

"if you commit a crime you're subject to the punishment.." Apparently not war criminals. AnotherMcIntosh Aug 2013 #22

+1 Or banks. nt woo me with science Aug 2013 #29

Or banksters nxylas Aug 2013 #32

Hot Water Ichingcarpenter Aug 2013 #45

+Infinity! - nt HardTimes99 Aug 2013 #71

Right Cha treestar Aug 2013 #68

So true Cha. great white snark Aug 2013 #95

"Reporting his hacking through the proper channels"... ljm2002 Aug 2013 #137

More "proper channels" bullshit wtmusic Aug 2013 #154

I think the problem many people have ecstatic Aug 2013 #24

There's not agreement on that in the definition of civil disobedience. limpyhobbler Aug 2013 #28

It's a tactic developed by American civil rights activists. Deep13 Aug 2013 #30

It's about a century older than the Civil Rights Movement Recursion Aug 2013 #98

I see. nt Deep13 Aug 2013 #148

Henry David Thoreau jberryhill Aug 2013 #31

You know Mandela operated underground until he was captured, right? Scootaloo Aug 2013 #39

Mandela was also a violent militant at first Recursion Aug 2013 #120

Thoreau hedgehog Aug 2013 #131

You forgot the "ur" example: Jesus. baldguy Aug 2013 #211

You base your entire argument as if Snowden was military, like Manning. Amonester Aug 2013 #33

Really great post. And I'm glad woo me with science Aug 2013 #34

Depends upon what you're protesting. Fire Walk With Me Aug 2013 #35

Nice...............nt Enthusiast Aug 2013 #116

It came from people who have two issues.. PorridgeGun Aug 2013 #37

wow. limpyhobbler Aug 2013 #76

I see you are a relatively low-count poster here so far, but I do hope you will consider HardTimes99 Aug 2013 #77

Thank you. I attempted to report everything to anyone who would listen PorridgeGun Aug 2013 #183

Incredible post. Enthusiast Aug 2013 #117

Thanks a bunch! PorridgeGun Aug 2013 #185

Another +1 to this post. backscatter712 Aug 2013 #136

Indeed! Thanks for the bump :) PorridgeGun Aug 2013 #186

Facing the consequences of one's actions, Summer Hathaway Aug 2013 #38

Amen. I continue to be flabbergasted by how little so many people in this forum know about Number23 Aug 2013 #42

I share your astonishment Summer Hathaway Aug 2013 #44

You are deliberately misinterpreting the point about civil disobedience as a TACTIC chimpymustgo Aug 2013 #72

Pretending that this is all about civil disobedience is laughable. n/t ProSense Aug 2013 #85

Way to go! Burn that strawman! dairydog91 Aug 2013 #91

You suggest that we "Think about black men in the south"... ljm2002 Aug 2013 #157

The "Snowden's cowardice" cheap shot. Comrade Grumpy Aug 2013 #167

Value of publicity shanen Aug 2013 #40

Excellent points! n/t backscatter712 Aug 2013 #174

kr. and the us has a death penalty. HiPointDem Aug 2013 #47

du rec. xchrom Aug 2013 #48

Agreed JustAnotherGen Aug 2013 #53

I remeber that there were lots of people who agreed with Timothy McVeigh also. kelliekat44 Aug 2013 #54

Psst...it's been a secret truebluegreen Aug 2013 #86

The longer this drags on JustAnotherGen Aug 2013 #111

From the government, of course. nt bemildred Aug 2013 #55

I am sorry you missed this bit of seminal American History and a lesson on the law--- msanthrope Aug 2013 #57

Exactly. The 'civil' part of 'civil disobedience' versus 'anarchy'. randome Aug 2013 #88

This is how a Patriot acts. I lament that 'civics' is so little taught. Snowden is a coward, msanthrope Aug 2013 #89

He committed a crime treestar Aug 2013 #61

The government violated the Constitution... davidn3600 Aug 2013 #73

The government does not treestar Aug 2013 #80

The government cannot enforce laws that violate the constitution davidn3600 Aug 2013 #83

Classifying documents in order to conceal government misconduct is itself illegal n/t markpkessinger Aug 2013 #101

K&R - nt HardTimes99 Aug 2013 #62

As Snowden has made clear, you only have to go to jail if they catch you. bemildred Aug 2013 #75

Simply put... 99Forever Aug 2013 #78

+1. They're PO'ed he escaped, and that's why they engage in the petty smears and insults. reformist2 Aug 2013 #87

It's stomach-turning to watch them hide behind figures like MLK or Nelson Mandela Marr Aug 2013 #106

As someone who has been arrested for my civil disobedience, I don't hide behind msanthrope Aug 2013 #125

Well, congratulations. Marr Aug 2013 #127

Well, neither you nor I did anything that merits life in prison. The point is don't do the msanthrope Aug 2013 #128

That's awfully glib. Marr Aug 2013 #138

I don't think that's an apt comparison because the degree of potential harm to an individual msanthrope Aug 2013 #145

The next time there are ProSense Aug 2013 #84

Civil disobediance does require courage though. hack89 Aug 2013 #90

It's a silly idea that comes from nowhere, simply made up Waiting For Everyman Aug 2013 #93

Except for, you know, Thoreau, who coined the term (nt) Recursion Aug 2013 #97

So what? Waiting For Everyman Aug 2013 #99

Just to answer your direct question: Thoreau is where it comes from Recursion Aug 2013 #96

This really, really needed to be said -- thank you! markpkessinger Aug 2013 #100

Anyone else find it interesting that the people who say Snowden needs to Marr Aug 2013 #104

I have been detecting this weird undercurrent of sado-masochism in the posts of those HardTimes99 Aug 2013 #108

I've noticed the same thing. Marr Aug 2013 #113

Very interesting indeed. backscatter712 Aug 2013 #147

he still wouldn't get their 'respect' KG Aug 2013 #158

Exactly. It's their talking point... backscatter712 Aug 2013 #161

From people that are opposed to the goals of civil disobedience. JoeyT Aug 2013 #107

No kidding. These are the same people who so assiduously told everyone that OWS Marr Aug 2013 #114

I remember that. backscatter712 Aug 2013 #159

It came from Henry David Thoreau's 1849 Essay, MineralMan Aug 2013 #109

Interestingly, though, Thoreau also highly approved of John Brown who HardTimes99 Aug 2013 #115

He did, yes. He also wrote the essay in question. MineralMan Aug 2013 #118

Oh, I know. I mentioned Brown only b/c Gandhi and MLK, Jr. are synonymous HardTimes99 Aug 2013 #121

Yes, the concept of non-violence came much later. MineralMan Aug 2013 #122

Not sure Brown would have agreed with Gandhi or MLK, Jr. But I think your HardTimes99 Aug 2013 #123

To clarify: that is only Thoreau's opinion, not the commonly accepted modern definition. Zorra Aug 2013 #160

Kicked and Recommended. Enthusiast Aug 2013 #112

Probably the private prison corporations. malthaussen Aug 2013 #129

From the folks that actually practiced ... 1StrongBlackMan Aug 2013 #133

Ouch Recursion Aug 2013 #155

Sorry, that is absolutely subjective, illogical, and ludicrous. Zorra Aug 2013 #164

Okay ... 1StrongBlackMan Aug 2013 #212

awesome post Vattel Aug 2013 #156

Espionage becomes civil disobedience so Progressive dog Aug 2013 #162

It came from a system that would prefer that dissidents turn themselves in cthulu2016 Aug 2013 #163

I think you're right! "You must submit as you disobey!" backscatter712 Aug 2013 #165

as if civil disobedience should be codified. like the Marquise of Queensbury. KG Aug 2013 #168

I couldn't have said it better myself. n/t backscatter712 Aug 2013 #169

Especially inapplicable where laws (like the Espionage Act) are being abused. DirkGently Aug 2013 #171

Where did it come from?? Probably from a contract issued to one of our Private Security sabrina 1 Aug 2013 #173

Good possibility. And how could any reasonable person buy into this irrational meme Zorra Aug 2013 #176

Well, when the obvious sacrifices required when you decide that you will have to sabrina 1 Aug 2013 #177

But here's what I find really puzzling: People cite MLK as an example of a perpetrator Zorra Aug 2013 #191

Yep. Stratfor, or Booz Allen. backscatter712 Aug 2013 #194

You're looking for logic where there is none. You are correct though, it is insane to sabrina 1 Aug 2013 #200

Yep, back in the sixties we were struggling to bring in the dawning of the Age of Aquarius. Cleita Aug 2013 #181

Gandhi, MLK - but what do they know? They aren't Edward The Great Man Snowden arely staircase Aug 2013 #192

So the tens of thousands who acted with King and Gandhi who weren't jailed for it Zorra Aug 2013 #195

just the ones who ran off to russia nt arely staircase Aug 2013 #196

Like many bad ideas, it originated with Henry David Thoreau Tom Ripley Aug 2013 #193

I didn't say it was a bad idea. backscatter712 Aug 2013 #197

K & R !!! WillyT Aug 2013 #201