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Cirsium

(3,718 posts)

92. Really?

Reply to lapucelle (Reply #52)

Tue Feb 17, 2026, 11:55 AM

Yesterday

Work harder to shut down purists - AKA those with whom you don't agree?

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Scrivener7 SunImp Bettie Ilikepurple vanessa_ca AloeVera Violet_Crumble

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It is not an act of loyalty to quash conversations about our own party's role in getting to where we are today. [View all] Scrivener7 Yesterday OP

Maybe that's why EarlG gave us The Way Forward forum. quaint Yesterday #1

The posting rules are the same everywhere on DU EarlG Yesterday #84

A concern is, snot 18 hrs ago #202

To answer your questions EarlG 16 hrs ago #209

Get a candidate who supports those things to run in a primary creeksneakers2 15 hrs ago #211

It's a bit tricky... ._. Yesterday #2

Yup, what Jason Crow said last week on TV gab13by13 Yesterday #7

Sorry, it's not the Democratic Party. It's Republican voters, third party voters, and petulant nonvoters lapucelle Yesterday #3

Kamala Harris won the election. gab13by13 Yesterday #6

Yup, pedo Trump cheated on the vote count Farmer-Rick Yesterday #30

That's a perfect way to keep losing iemanja 15 hrs ago #213

Yup! yellow dahlia Yesterday #77

I'm noticing JustAnotherGen Yesterday #9

I can count the leftists I've actually corresponded with online TBF Yesterday #93

I can't do that JustAnotherGen Yesterday #119

Can you "be in community" with Donald Trump? TBF Yesterday #140

I disagree JustAnotherGen Yesterday #145

What is "Magapub/CSA" - TBF Yesterday #159

Magapub JustAnotherGen Yesterday #163

I am old school labor - originally from Wisconsin TBF 22 hrs ago #179

And maga-pub IS NOT a political party---- it is a criminal domestic terrorist organization Jack Valentino 17 hrs ago #207

Thank you sir! JustAnotherGen 7 hrs ago #222

What does any of this mean...Demanding concessions?...Taking up arms against each other? PeaceWave Yesterday #166

Full Disclosure - I'm in NJ JustAnotherGen Yesterday #149

This insists that any change must come from our opposition. Scrivener7 Yesterday #36

I work hard, every single year, to elect Democrats in races big and small. lapucelle Yesterday #45

I think we here all work hard to elect Democrats. And we have been doing so for years. And yet, here we are. Scrivener7 Yesterday #48

Work harder to shut down opposition narratives, most especially those from purists and punishers lapucelle Yesterday #52

Which, by definition, has nothing to do with shutting down discussions on DU. Scrivener7 Yesterday #53

To begin with, expressing an opinion on a topic is not "shutting down discussion" on a topic. lapucelle Yesterday #66

Really? Cirsium Yesterday #92

That's an odd definition of "purist". lapucelle Yesterday #99

Exactly Cirsium Yesterday #117

Even given the definitional problems (and notwithstanding the random use of latin), lapucelle Yesterday #127

hi back Cirsium Yesterday #128

Recognizing a Latin word and saying your conclusion doesn't follow from your premises is not an argument either Ilikepurple 19 hrs ago #198

Creating your own three term argument by merging two distinct and seperate terms into one lapucelle 7 hrs ago #221

I didn't take that as an attack JustAnotherGen 22 hrs ago #180

agreed Cirsium 22 hrs ago #183

We shouldn't "shut down" speech Just_Vote_Dem Yesterday #97

Couldn't agree more with you more Scrivener. choie Yesterday #49

It's defining the mistakes JustAnotherGen 22 hrs ago #181

Personally... Chemical Bill 20 hrs ago #190

I agree with you 100% Scrivener7. It is not a fluke that we are in this mess. flashman13 Yesterday #71

I'm really looking forward to the primaries too. We have an incredible bench, and Scrivener7 Yesterday #73

You are? Divergent views within our own party might lead to hurt feelings afterwards. PeaceWave 17 hrs ago #208

+1 leftstreet Yesterday #103

Joe Biden WAS a great President. Chemical Bill 20 hrs ago #193

Well said. Thank you again! KPN Yesterday #132

Isn't amazing that SocialDemocrat61 Yesterday #40

Thanks for illustrating the problem. FoxNewsSucks Yesterday #65

The problem is Trump and republicans SocialDemocrat61 Yesterday #75

I have never seen anyone here say that Democrats are the enemy FoxNewsSucks Yesterday #78

Good SocialDemocrat61 Yesterday #88

And what Scrivener is asking is HOW did we get here? CrispyQ Yesterday #100

We got here because of Republicans SocialDemocrat61 Yesterday #110

So was it an attack or not? Ilikepurple 20 hrs ago #192

Have a nice day SocialDemocrat61 20 hrs ago #194

What are you doing? Cirsium Yesterday #94

Have a nice day! SocialDemocrat61 Yesterday #98

With deliberate misrepresentation MorbidButterflyTat Yesterday #109

Have a nice day! SocialDemocrat61 Yesterday #111

Unrec. This is why we can't have nice things. TBF Yesterday #112

It's the Democratic Party which nominates candidates which voters either accept or reject Jose Garcia Yesterday #154

With the (somewhat) arguable exception of 2024, voters choose the candidates. lapucelle Yesterday #165

Mahalo, lapucelle! Some seem to forget Cha 23 hrs ago #170

Thank you for this thread, gab13by13 Yesterday #4

I'm firmly in the FIGHT NOW group. n/t PatrickforB Yesterday #34

Same here. And I'm highly suspect of the motives of anyone demanding we do otherwise. FoxNewsSucks Yesterday #67

Careful! Floyd R. Turbo Yesterday #5

Yep. And that's the problem. This has nothing to do with criticizing Democrats. It has to do with looking at Scrivener7 Yesterday #8

Jason Crow backs up your thread, gab13by13 Yesterday #19

I'm with you right up until the part about nominating a republican. But I get your point. Scrivener7 Yesterday #22

Miles Taylor has no political experience and we know karynnj Yesterday #38

Not fair comparing Miles Taylor with Liz Cheney, gab13by13 Yesterday #57

I will listen to him but just based on what you said MadameButterfly Yesterday #63

I remember all the support here for Michael Avenatti for a presidential run. MichMan Yesterday #64

That doesn't mean we shouldn't want fighters, FoxNewsSucks Yesterday #68

I remember it and thinking it beyond stupid karynnj Yesterday #74

While I'm grateful to Conservatives who have drawn a line and chosen to MadameButterfly Yesterday #62

nominating a REPUKE? Skittles 15 hrs ago #217

If we don't look at the issues of the Dem structure, and question it, then we are in a cult... yellow dahlia Yesterday #81

If you look at my sig line JustAnotherGen Yesterday #10

They want all poor people dead, depopulation is a part of Project 2025. gab13by13 Yesterday #20

"I never submitted the whole system of my opinions to the creed of any party of men whatever Ping Tung Yesterday #11

"I am a Christian and a Democrat. That's all": FDR, when asked to define his political philosophy. lapucelle Yesterday #21

That was his choice. That's what democracy is supposed to be about...choice. Ping Tung Yesterday #26

Yes, folks choose to vote for Republicans or third-party candidates or to withhold any vote as punishment lapucelle Yesterday #120

And add mainstream media to that list Just_Vote_Dem Yesterday #125

Just as there's nothing wrong calling out the politicians who support or vote for Ping Tung Yesterday #143

Sir, this is a Wendy's Johnny2X2X Yesterday #12

I'm not talking about ripping on Dems and I'm not talking about anything that violates the TOS. Scrivener7 Yesterday #13

I'd be willing to bet that the same posters jumping all over you also FoxNewsSucks Yesterday #69

I actually express hatred JustAnotherGen 22 hrs ago #184

Fire the strategists and consultant class, The party needs to stop making the same mistakes. yellow dahlia Yesterday #86

YES! The 'strategists' and 'Consultants" don't seem to have Bettie Yesterday #137

That really is at the base of all of it. Scrivener7 Yesterday #144

The other thing that would make a HUGE difference Bettie Yesterday #146

Indeed. yellow dahlia 22 hrs ago #186

Any time we stop speaking truth, we benefit those who want to hide the truth. hamsterjill Yesterday #14

Yours is a great post also, gab13by13 Yesterday #23

Thank you. hamsterjill Yesterday #24

Agreed! yellow dahlia Yesterday #87

It's just demographics Sympthsical Yesterday #15

But at this point, none of us is. I'm that comfortable boomer you describe. Scrivener7 Yesterday #16

Absolutely Sympthsical Yesterday #27

Cheerleaders, the party is always right, swarm, posse, toe the line, echo chamber, blind loyalty, marching in lockstep, betsuni Yesterday #17

And supposedly, MorbidButterflyTat Yesterday #116

. SunImp Yesterday #131

Finding out facts instead of leaping to negative conclusions about Democrats is mocked as mindless loyalty. Projection. betsuni Yesterday #164

We failed to read history, but it's only now that history is understood at all bucolic_frolic Yesterday #18

Somewhat related to your OP, discussions quickly sink... harumph Yesterday #25

So much yes to this! All those bad movies about evil conglomerates trying to rule the world? Scrivener7 Yesterday #29

My daughter quipped the other day - "Who knew the original Superman movie was a road map..." harumph Yesterday #42

We are at a confluence of all the evil empire "Bond villain" types. yellow dahlia Yesterday #90

Time for a paradigm shift. yellow dahlia Yesterday #89

It's a return to 1877 to 1965 JustAnotherGen 2 hrs ago #231

As I have said before: popsdenver Yesterday #39

Amen, sis! demmiblue Yesterday #28

I cleared my ignore list a while ago Bettie Yesterday #142

Trump 2.0 could have been prevented by closing the border and having a normal primary dalton99a Yesterday #31

Thank you! intheflow Yesterday #32

I agree popsdenver Yesterday #43

... SSJVegeta Yesterday #33

In his diplomatic, inoffensive way, I think President Obama pointed the way Martin Eden Yesterday #35

I make no bones about it JustAnotherGen 22 hrs ago #188

DURec leftstreet Yesterday #37

For example, gab13by13 Yesterday #41

I think that's a perfect example because it's my opinion that, if Democratic leaders had not gotten so much Scrivener7 Yesterday #44

Yep, things changed Just_Vote_Dem Yesterday #46

And it seems like it took a little outrage to convince them of the fact. Scrivener7 Yesterday #50

That's the problem in a nutshell. AloeVera Yesterday #102

People are pissed at the wait-and-see say-nothing do-nothing approach. dalton99a Yesterday #47

We're in a partial shutdown at the moment. lapucelle Yesterday #113

Eight Democrats voted to end the fillibuster in October, ten in March. Scrivener7 Yesterday #126

Your vote counts in both instances are off by one. lapucelle Yesterday #133

So a groundswell of constituent opinion has no effect on your elected officials? Scrivener7 Yesterday #134

Social media posts and constituent opinion are two very different things. N/T lapucelle Yesterday #167

i completely agree with you. We should be able to speak freely if it is for constructive reason samsingh Yesterday #51

That's a good example of a topic we should discuss in detail. Scrivener7 Yesterday #114

exactly - and given the power trump is wielding samsingh Yesterday #121

So the lesson, which I hope we have learned, is that we release it all as soon as we are able. Scrivener7 Yesterday #122

there can be no healing until the crimes are punished samsingh Yesterday #123

Concise and to the point. Well said. Escurumbele Yesterday #54

100% Agree, Scrivener 7. If we can't see our own part in something we can't improve... johnnyplankton Yesterday #55

Everything changes except one thing that was never addressed, and still isn't. usonian Yesterday #56

It is important to note that WE elected our officials to represent us Grim Chieftain Yesterday #58

That's why we have primaries SocialDemocrat61 Yesterday #60

And if they don't uphold the promises they made in the primaries? Grim Chieftain Yesterday #70

Really depends on the promises they made SocialDemocrat61 Yesterday #76

And it doesn't need to be a fight. I made mistakes in my job. Scrivener7 Yesterday #79

Agreed. yellow dahlia Yesterday #95

Wanting to learn from the past & do better in the future... CaptainTruth Yesterday #59

Good Luck with that here. n/t ihaveaquestion Yesterday #61

When do we rank-n-file types get to see the Election 2024 Postmortem? Kid Berwyn Yesterday #72

Spot on! yellow dahlia Yesterday #96

Yup Joinfortmill Yesterday #80

This is what those finger-waggers really are FoxNewsSucks Yesterday #82

I do think the DNC is starting to realize that much of the grass roots is really pissed at the party leadership Bluetus Yesterday #83

I think recent events have provided us with a pretty extensive list of things we Scrivener7 Yesterday #85

I have a list. You have a list. The Party does not have a list. Bluetus Yesterday #105

Without a doubt. And Dems -- all Dems -- should be repeating that list. Bluetus 3 hrs ago #229

Please link to these threads: MorbidButterflyTat Yesterday #91

There was one in particular this morning that was a good example. I can't link to it. For reasons I will not state. Scrivener7 Yesterday #107

Milquetoast, strongly worded letters, old guard, status quo, gerontocracy, Vichy Dems, Surrender Dems, betsuni Yesterday #124

Good post Scrivener7, and a worthwhile question to ask. I feel the biggest mistake we may have made is to underestimate c-rational Yesterday #101

Definitely. I agree with all of that. Scrivener7 Yesterday #115

Right? They see us as the enemy Bettie Yesterday #147

Well said, Scrivener. yellow dahlia Yesterday #104

What a great topic. Absent discussions like these, we Dems are merely REACTING to what the other side does. PeaceWave Yesterday #106

I see the same cheerleaders on this thread. hamsterjill Yesterday #108

I hear you. harumph Yesterday #150

You are absolutely correct! hamsterjill 19 hrs ago #199

Our role in getting here today Quiet Em Yesterday #118

Sadly, I think this is true. We have lost so much civil rights ground Scrivener7 Yesterday #139

I am 59 Bettie Yesterday #151

The adults gulliver Yesterday #129

The Democrats I know aren't lazy, neglectful OR self-indulgent. Scrivener7 Yesterday #135

"Romans and countrymen, lend me your ears?" gulliver Yesterday #136

Thank you so much Scrivener. KPN Yesterday #130

Great OP SunImp Yesterday #138

Thank you for the thread canetoad Yesterday #141

Loyalty means being willing to examine our own missteps Torchlight Yesterday #148

It's not possible currently to discuss mistakes and we are doomed to repeat them again. Melon Yesterday #152

How is it happening in Texas? SocialDemocrat61 Yesterday #156

Beto Melon Yesterday #162

What's he running for? SocialDemocrat61 Yesterday #169

See Below Quote Melon 23 hrs ago #172

So what did Beto SocialDemocrat61 23 hrs ago #173

This thread is all about why we don't do that.... Melon 23 hrs ago #175

So who should run in Texas? SocialDemocrat61 22 hrs ago #176

This and your gatekeeping is the issue that prevents open discussion and improvement. Melon 22 hrs ago #177

I'm just trying to understand SocialDemocrat61 22 hrs ago #178

Why? Are you in Texas? Or are you trying to gatekeep? Melon 20 hrs ago #191

No, but am trying to understand what is going on In Texas. SocialDemocrat61 20 hrs ago #196

And I say again...go read the threads on Talarico or Crockett Melon 16 hrs ago #210

I was asking for your perspective SocialDemocrat61 15 hrs ago #215

I have a relative running for the Senate, so luckily Scrivener7 Yesterday #157

It has nothing to do with being loyal. It's about fighting back against (often) unfair and unwarranted criticism. W_HAMILTON Yesterday #153

Well, "bullshit criticism" is in the eye of the beholder. Orrex 20 hrs ago #195

I may be late to this discussion, but I read it early this morning and just now thought I would add my 2cents. Ninga Yesterday #155

We had the clear advantage in social media Scrivener7 7 hrs ago #223

We do not need to do this before midterms and publicly oldmanlynn Yesterday #158

Suicidal has been the lack of transparency and free discussion Melon Yesterday #161

The right time is always behind closed doors oldmanlynn 14 hrs ago #218

Absolutely agree! And I've noticed another of the cheerleaders' tactics: Orrex Yesterday #160

That's not an accurate metaphor for your point EdmondDantes_ 22 hrs ago #187

Thanks, but I know what I've seen, and I'm ready to be judged Orrex 21 hrs ago #189

No I expressly don't. But you leap to that conclusion EdmondDantes_ 17 hrs ago #203

Let's just say that the discussion's been going on since before July 21, 2024 Orrex 17 hrs ago #204

And they feel just as strongly as you do about their name calling being calling it as they see it EdmondDantes_ 17 hrs ago #205

I've accused you of exactly nothing except joining the conversation late Orrex 17 hrs ago #206

To quote you EdmondDantes_ 7 hrs ago #220

LOL. No, read it again Orrex 6 hrs ago #226

Sure thing. It's not like you were replying to me or anything EdmondDantes_ 4 hrs ago #228

Bless your heart. Orrex 3 hrs ago #230

The key: 100% confidence one is 100% correct, obviously morally righteously correct. betsuni 15 hrs ago #212

This part: Scrivener7 7 hrs ago #224

I would remark that biggest reason Dems "lost" Mblaze Yesterday #168

Sounds like you have a problem with the jury system. LudwigPastorius 23 hrs ago #171

She just made the argument iemanja 15 hrs ago #214

No. I think the jury system is kind of genius, actually. Scrivener7 6 hrs ago #225

I choose to belong to the Democratic party Progressive dog 23 hrs ago #174

I choose to exercise my democratic rights iemanja 15 hrs ago #216

of course you do Progressive dog 4 hrs ago #227

Nether productive or appropriate? iemanja 30 min ago #232

Time and place. Zelda_Orchid 22 hrs ago #182

Based OP. BannonsLiver 22 hrs ago #185

The number of RECs, replies, and views to this OP shows just how important to the DU community... Ol Janx Spirit 20 hrs ago #197

I think we all have perspectives and ideas that have value, even if only to further a productive dialectic Ilikepurple 18 hrs ago #201

Absolutely agree & Thank You for saying it! 👍nt Raine 18 hrs ago #200

complicit poozwah 8 hrs ago #219