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ShazzieB

(19,149 posts)
77. Oh lord, I hardly know where to start.
Mon Nov 18, 2024, 05:26 PM
Nov 18

But I guess I'll start with where this conversation started: RFK Jr. I'm getting a pretty clear sense that you have a positive opinion of him, possibly even admire him. You have the right to feel however you feel about him. He has certainly done some admirable things in the area of environmental law. His activities in the area of vaccines, however, are an entirely different story, imo.

Unfortunately, I do not have the time or the energy to educate you or anyone about the history of vaccines and the many ways they have made this country and many others safer places to live or why I believe getting fully vaccinated is greatly preferable AND much safer than taking one's chances with the many infectious diseases that vaccines can protect us from. I also don't have the time or energy to explain what's wrong with RFK Jr's thinking on vaccines or the many scientific errors and logical fallacies with which his writings on the subject are riddled. All of that is above my pay grade. All I can do is point you to some sources of information that have informed my own thinking on the subject.

The first is a book called The Panic Virus: A True Story of Medicine, Science, and Fear by Seth Mnookin. This book provides quite a bit of information on the history of vaccines and of the antivaxx movement, including some material on RFK Jr's activities in that area. It was published in 2011, so it's not fully up to date, but I learned a ton from reading this book.

Herding Immunity: The Startling History of Life Before and After Vaccines, by Stacy Mintzer Herlihy, is a brand new book, so it's quite up to date, and it has an entire chapter on RFK, Jr. I have not read this one yet, because it's so very new that I've only just become aware of it, but from what I can tell, it seems to be a good overview of the history of vaccines and the good they have done and continue to do, as well as the history of vaccine opposition.

I'll stop with these, at least for now. There are websites I could mention, but if you are at all vaccine-skeptical, they probably wouldn't convince you of anything. In fact, if you're more than a tiny bit skeptical about vaccines, these books probably won't be convincing, either.

The problem with vaccine resistance in general is that it's driven by fear, mistrust of the government and other institutions, and the lack of scientific literacy and critical thinking skills that are all too common in the US these days. That makes it very hard for everyone to agree on which sources are trustworthy.

As for the National Vaccine Injury Compensation Program, all I can say is the figures you have cited are the kind of raw data that doesn't actually prove anything. According to the program's website, anyone who has received a covered vaccine in the US (or whose child has received a covered vaccine) is eligible to file a claim, foe any reason. The number of people filing claims tells how many people may believe a vaccine has harmed them or their child. The number of those claims that are eventually adjudicated to be valid cannot be determined or even estimated from knowing how many claims have been filed. I'm sure people file claims for all kinds of reasons, not all of which meet the test of scientific validity.

If the program is underfunded and therefore understaffed, that is very unfortunate but again, that doesn't tell us anything about the number of people who have actually been harmed by vaccines. It's really unwise to make assumptions about how many people have been harmed by vaccines based on the inability of a government program to process claims in a timely fashion. I'm sorry if people are experiencing unnecessarily delays in having their claims reviewed, but that doesn't prove anything other than that the program needs to improve its efficiency.

As for RFK Jr himself, I'm afraid you'll find he does not have a lot of fans here. I am far from the only person here who is highly critical of his opposition to vaccines. That's just the fact of the matter.

Recommendations

1 members have recommended this reply (displayed in chronological order):

You must realize that Jr. does not track well. Sneederbunk Nov 17 #1
He tracks well enough to kill people. Irish_Dem Nov 17 #5
Post removed Post removed Nov 17 #13
wow 10 posts in 20 years Kali Nov 17 #17
Message auto-removed Name removed Nov 17 #22
Oooo defensive too Kali Nov 17 #24
Um, ten posts in four months Brother Buzz Nov 17 #43
We've had a slew of those on the past half-year. ... Hekate Nov 17 #44
The jury pool can take the victory lap for this troll Brother Buzz Nov 17 #47
RFK Jr's personal visit had a lot to do with the drop in vaccinations. 83 people died of measles, Hekate Nov 17 #29
Kennedy visited with vaccine skeptics in the time leading up applegrove Nov 17 #34
He's personally responsible for measles outbreaks here in Minnesota NickB79 Nov 17 #45
Or go chat with much mcconnell BOSSHOG Nov 17 #2
Mitch McConnell had polio as a child, am I right? FakeNoose Nov 17 #33
yes you are correct. I was in the first round of mass vaccinations for polio yellowdogintexas Nov 17 #52
He hasn't weighed any of the other evidence scientifically, why would that evidence persuade him? Shermann Nov 17 #3
No, he's not anti-vaccines! 😉😉😉 ShazzieB Nov 17 #8
More than likely only those made from live viruses like polio and smallpox. He just does not believe in modern science LiberalArkie Nov 17 #23
Politico.com on Health & Human Services vaccine injury compensation program womanofthehills Nov 17 #40
Oh lord, I hardly know where to start. ShazzieB Nov 18 #77
Womanofthehills noted a large increase in claims biophile Nov 18 #78
Kill as many American children as possible by denying them healthcare. Irish_Dem Nov 17 #4
Kill the poor and minority children whose parents couldn't afford haele Nov 17 #25
Force women to have children then kill the kids by denying healthcare. Irish_Dem Nov 17 #27
Holee shit 3auld6phart Nov 18 #65
Depends on your insurance company. haele Nov 18 #71
Pass. Not indulging his nonsense or listening to his weird ass, decades long death rattle of wheezing of bullshit. TheKentuckian Nov 17 #6
That lunatic shouldn't be allowed to put a Band-Aid on someone's scratch without supervision, Dave Bowman Nov 17 #7
You know, it's so absurd that I think people dont actually believe he could be that nutty. hadEnuf Nov 17 #16
All of his kids H2O Man Nov 17 #9
So that means he's a "yes for me but not for thee" kind of guy. calimary Nov 17 #12
Respectfully disagree. H2O Man Nov 17 #18
People don't seem to be the least bit curious... Caribbeans Nov 17 #28
He literally said on video that no vaccines are safe and effective NickB79 Nov 17 #46
I did see H2O Man Nov 17 #49
Frankly, admitting you know him personally makes me think less of you NickB79 Nov 18 #79
I don't know you. H2O Man Nov 18 #81
It was Obama's transition team that considered him LiberalFighter Nov 18 #68
Incorrect. H2O Man Nov 18 #72
You can bet your sweet bippy DENVERPOPS Nov 17 #15
Right. H2O Man Nov 17 #20
Our Vaccine Injury Compensation Program womanofthehills Nov 17 #42
I've made comments to this same point many times InstantGratification Nov 17 #10
Are you really saying that the infant mortality rate in the US in the 1950s was 30%? TheRickles Nov 17 #48
this probably is birth to maybe 5 or 6. yellowdogintexas Nov 17 #57
Birth to 3, I think he said. But I'd still like to see a link. TheRickles Nov 18 #60
That was the assertation of the article I read InstantGratification Nov 18 #64
Thanks for trying. It just sounds way off. TheRickles Nov 18 #70
According to the CDC, in the 1940's: haele Nov 18 #74
Thanks for tracking this down - much appreciated. :-) TheRickles Nov 18 #76
Mind you, infant mortality is different to childhood in general mortality. haele Nov 18 #80
Why bother? PJMcK Nov 17 #11
"Durrr... Those were all just post-birth 'bortions!! Chetmake, libz!! " Grokenstein Nov 17 #14
He doesn't give a fuck. His purpose is to destroy our... NNadir Nov 17 #19
Anyone Linda ladeewolf Nov 17 #21
The Star Tribune recently had an article about the oldest cemetery in Minneapolis dflprincess Nov 17 #26
I took a walking tour of Lakewood Cemetery LNM Nov 18 #67
IIRC...RFK Jr started his anti-vax theories after his child was diagnosed with autism. rubbersole Nov 17 #30
so he thinks there were no kids with autism prior to vaccines Skittles Nov 17 #38
Seen much polio or smallpox lately? keithbvadu2 Nov 17 #31
Exactly when BigMin28 Nov 17 #32
repukes approve of government between a woman and their doctor Skittles Nov 17 #39
Same time the clergymen were anointed. rubbersole Nov 17 #41
The worm ate his brain. Nuff said. Evolve Dammit Nov 17 #35
Very well put and people today have no idea moniss Nov 17 #36
You can still see some of the effects of those diseases. Mariana Nov 18 #61
I knew a fellow who was a moniss Nov 18 #73
To be fair, penicillin was not available till 1945 womanofthehills Nov 17 #37
And herd immunity since the 70s all around you. applegrove Nov 17 #53
Child of the 50s and I had the DPT (Diphtheria/Pertussis/Tetanus) required before starting school yellowdogintexas Nov 17 #56
It would be a waste of time. Martin68 Nov 17 #50
The mummy looking bastard has dementia or something Klarkashton Nov 17 #51
who cares what he thinks? Groundhawg Nov 17 #54
When I started school in 1954, the required vax were smallpox, diphtheria, pertussis, tetanus yellowdogintexas Nov 17 #55
RFK Jr. has vaccinated all of his own children. Hypocrisy does not trouble him. Hamlette Nov 17 #58
cemetery poozwah Nov 18 #59
The best comment I've read today. BradBo Nov 18 #62
Same thing with young women and maternal Ilsa Nov 18 #63
No one is going to ask RFK Jr. that. maxsolomon Nov 18 #66
Some should ask all of these vaccination deniers........... turbinetree Nov 18 #69
Respectfully, that train left the station. Condescenturion Nov 18 #75
Latest Discussions»General Discussion»Somebody needs to ask RFK...»Reply #77