General Discussion

EnergizedLib

(2,200 posts)

185. Leave civil rights and individual liberties to the states?

Reply to dalton99a (Reply #38)

Sun Nov 17, 2024, 12:54 PM

Nov 17

Not a chance.

Edit history

Please sign in to view edit histories.

239 replies

= new reply since forum marked as read

Highlight:

Democrats need to address the "Working Class" problem and get over the "Isms" [View all] Hellbound Hellhound Nov 16 OP

Yes, racism and sexism DID matter. If Kamala were a middle-aged Scrivener7 Nov 16 #1

So the race was lost as soon as Biden stepped down and she became the candidate? jalan48 Nov 16 #17

Biden is a straight, white man. paleotn Nov 16 #31

So we should begin to lie to them like Trump did? travelingthrulife Nov 16 #97

That's it. It's impossible to win against a rich white man who lies about everything, promises everything, viva la Nov 16 #101

This message was self-deleted by its author ShazzieB Nov 16 #104

That's the message I got from it. yardwork Nov 17 #169

I'm not sure what we're supposed to do differently, either! o/ ShazzieB Nov 17 #186

Not hardly. Take credit where credit is due. There's a hell of a lot of credit we're due in that regard. paleotn Nov 16 #126

Well is capitalism Akakoji Nov 16 #133

Look at the numbers!!! It was race and gender!!! That is the WHOLE story!!! Scrivener7 Nov 16 #103

No, actually, we didn't twist ourselves into knots over it. paleotn Nov 16 #115

Then we made a mistake nominating VP Harris? And from here on only EITHER non-white OR kelly1mm Nov 16 #136

Yes. It is. And we have been beaten over the head twice now with that fact. Scrivener7 Nov 16 #141

Well that hits like a 2x4! Maybe (probably?) true though. I fear the first woman in the WH will be a R. nt kelly1mm Nov 16 #142

Oh, God. You might be right. And look at that field of possibilities. Gabbard, the Russian asset, Scrivener7 Nov 16 #145

Laura Trump, the next Senator from FL and (potential) future 1st woman President? She has the name ... nt kelly1mm Nov 16 #146

I'm nauseous. Scrivener7 Nov 16 #148

THIS!!!! n/t DemonGoddess Nov 18 #193

I can imagine more qualified candidates in fact more qualified female candidates Jk23 Nov 21 #225

No. Racism and sexism among our own is what came back to bite us. Look at the numbers. Scrivener7 Nov 21 #228

Sexism maybe but the US has no problem electing a black president. NT Jk23 Nov 21 #233

America has no problem electing a black president who has enough charisma to stop a train. Scrivener7 Nov 21 #235

Totally agree with every word get the red out Nov 21 #230

Agreed "economic insecurity" is bs. intheflow Nov 17 #181

I don't disagree. ShazzieB Nov 17 #187

I do too. It's heartbreaking. Scrivener7 Nov 17 #190

Biden beat Trump. This time aging affected how he came across JI7 Nov 16 #125

By a damn landslide. Scrivener7 Nov 17 #182

We need a more populist message get the red out Nov 21 #229

No it didn't. Many know it but just don't want to accept it, because accepting it admits failure. n/t Hellbound Hellhound Nov 16 #33

Replying late, but just have to say I definitely agree! ShazzieB Nov 17 #188

I'm seeing a lot about messaging and I get that. A Bernie type of candidate may have wiped the floor with tRump yaesu Nov 16 #2

I get it. Some of our founders got it too. paleotn Nov 16 #42

Messaging means nothing if voters don't feel like the Democrats have done enough for them... DSandra Nov 16 #48

The republicans are all about isms Keepthesoulalive Nov 16 #3

Reps have ACKNOWLEDGED them in a way Dems didn't. Hellbound Hellhound Nov 16 #7

They are eating the cats and dogs, Puerto Rico is a garbage island. Keepthesoulalive Nov 16 #35

It's almost like our messaging didn't reach the voters! Glad we agree! Hellbound Hellhound Nov 16 #39

No we don't agree Keepthesoulalive Nov 16 #53

Considering those states are some of the highest concentrations of Black Americans, I wonder what you mean. n/t Hellbound Hellhound Nov 16 #56

Look at the Demos JustAnotherGen Nov 16 #61

It's a very good question. If people think letting magats suffer after voting for Tadpole Raisin Nov 16 #65

"... why hasn't that happened in southern states?" Mariana Nov 17 #165

Gerrymandering and voter suppression Keepthesoulalive Nov 16 #78

Good luck with your procedure. As for the OP, we left-of-center libs/progressive Dems are at... brush Nov 21 #234

I seem to recall hearing many times kacekwl Nov 16 #62

Harris Had Plans OhioTim Nov 16 #114

Manipulate them to get votes, but they are good in being con artists... DSandra Nov 16 #49

It is easy to manipulate someone Keepthesoulalive Nov 16 #59

Yep, MAGA framing is as if PoC aren't mostly "working class" ... M$M repeats it ad nauseum uponit7771 Nov 16 #91

Thread is typical product of brainwashing krkaufman Nov 16 #123

I agree. Bernie has been saying this for awhile, but it's not a message favored by the wealth class. jalan48 Nov 16 #4

Agreed. "Identity" is a losing message, period. We're losing the AA and Latino vote to economic extremists. n/t Hellbound Hellhound Nov 16 #9

What African American vote? JustAnotherGen Nov 16 #15

92% of less than 10% of the American voting populace isn't enough. n/t Hellbound Hellhound Nov 16 #18

Exactly JustAnotherGen Nov 16 #25

I do agree with that. So how do we reach them? Hellbound Hellhound Nov 16 #29

That's on you JustAnotherGen Nov 16 #60

You can't have a party of just black woman and Rich over educated white people Jk23 Nov 21 #226

But what if we don't do the work JustAnotherGen Nov 21 #236

Messaging ? Your think republican kacekwl Nov 16 #79

I like how this guy JustAnotherGen Nov 16 #81

Didn't apparently try to convince his mom and grandma that they were voting for a racist transphobe either... AZSkiffyGeek Nov 16 #111

Yep krkaufman Nov 16 #124

What did he do for them? Keepthesoulalive Nov 16 #135

I'm genuinely confused by your message. yardwork Nov 17 #167

Here's a hint: Bettie Nov 17 #172

Wrong dead wrong... JT45242 Nov 16 #5

"Or their misinformed, uneducated PERCEPTION of the economy" soandso Nov 16 #21

Uneducated isn't wrong JustAnotherGen Nov 16 #67

But they still have the right to vote...so...they will go with the one who speaks like they do. Lucky Luciano Nov 16 #85

Perception is reality...marshall mcluhan JT45242 Nov 16 #153

As someone who is in the bottom 80%, people saying that the economy is great when its not for them... DSandra Nov 16 #51

The biggest economic gains were in the bottom half... JT45242 Nov 17 #164

Exactly Sunsky Nov 16 #75

"It's the stupid, stupid." krkaufman Nov 16 #130

I think the perception thing goes two ways Jk23 Nov 21 #227

tell me exactly how repukes are helping the working class Skittles Nov 16 #6

Trump doubled the standard deduction, increased the Child Tax Credit, and expanded the Earned Income Tax Credit Shermann Nov 16 #13

Exactly. Even if he's lying, he's telling people what they want to hear. n/t Hellbound Hellhound Nov 16 #14

Trump mishandled covid and crashed the fucking economy Skittles Nov 16 #19

nope. any other questions? Takket Nov 16 #34

He seems to have been given a pass on the pandemic. Shermann Nov 16 #46

HE RODE ON OBAMA'S ACCOMPLISHMENTS Skittles Nov 16 #54

I do blame Dems and the media ... krkaufman Nov 16 #132

Yes, doubled the standard deduction, but due to shifts in the tax brackets.... paleotn Nov 16 #55

You got the increased itemization threshold backwards Shermann Nov 16 #58

The tax brackets changed, eliminating most of that benefit of an increased standard deduction. paleotn Nov 16 #63

I do my own taxes and don't share your view. nt Shermann Nov 16 #64

I do mine and do share my view. paleotn Nov 16 #66

Ok I guess we're going there. Shermann Nov 16 #80

You're only getting part of the picture. You forgot about personal and dependent exemptions. paleotn Nov 16 #110

You smuggled two dependents into the equation Shermann Nov 16 #120

They're undocumented. Let it slide. paleotn Nov 16 #127

OK I reran the 2017 numbers from my original example Shermann Nov 17 #159

He fucked the State Income Tax States JustAnotherGen Nov 16 #77

Yes, families in high-tax states were the losers there. nt Shermann Nov 16 #92

You know how kacekwl Nov 16 #121

Actuality doesn't matter. Perception trumps reality, pardon the pun. paleotn Nov 16 #45

The price of eggs mattered. Pure b.s. and a cover story for stolen election. Just my thought. Botany Nov 16 #8

This message was self-deleted by its author Chin music Nov 16 #10

You seem to have bought into Republican SharonClark Nov 16 #11

The Democratic Candidates JustAnotherGen Nov 16 #12

We are absolutely natural survivors Dem4life1234 Nov 20 #195

I'm not reading M$M media right now - JustAnotherGen Nov 21 #198

I don't blame you for feeling that way. yardwork Nov 21 #210

lmao tldr Nimble_Idea Nov 16 #16

So much advice, so many simple answers...nt Fiendish Thingy Nov 16 #20

You're right. The needed answers are incredibly simple. n/t Hellbound Hellhound Nov 16 #24

Then why are you upthread JustAnotherGen Nov 16 #87

Of course they might be simple answers to the wrong questions. Fiendish Thingy Nov 16 #107

Don't worry guys. Next time new messaging: "Free Brawndo for all. Brawndo has electrolytes! It's got what plants crave!" spudspud Nov 16 #22

Thank you JustAnotherGen Nov 16 #26

what about black working class voters who are reliably Democratic? bigtree Nov 16 #23

What about 'em? Their numbers are irrelevant and even if they weren't, Trump's eating into them. Hellbound Hellhound Nov 16 #32

'Their numbers are irrelevant' bigtree Nov 16 #44

"Offensive" if you refuse to consider raw numbers and basic math. Hellbound Hellhound Nov 16 #50

you didn't talk numbers bigtree Nov 16 #70

What he says about women also makes my skin crawl. What a load of magagop. Hekate Nov 16 #118

You didn't listen to the messaging. It was all about working class needs. travelingthrulife Nov 16 #86

"We're losing Blacks" This is false on its face, same number of blacks voted for Harris this time than last time ... uponit7771 Nov 16 #99

Fucking Kanye West puts on a stupid fucking MAGA hat and they claim blacks are moving toward fucking MAGA. SoFlaBro Nov 17 #158

92% of Black voters supported Biden, but only 86% backed Harris Shermann Nov 17 #161

That is false or misleading Biden did not get 92% of the Black vote He got 87% standingtall Nov 17 #177

THANK YOU!!! uponit7771 Nov 17 #184

Please quote your claim from the article, I could not find it after text search and reading it uponit7771 Nov 17 #183

It's such a bullshit lie Dem4life1234 Nov 20 #196

Right, makes me think something ... non science... uponit7771 Nov 20 #197

Thank you Bigtree. I am about beside myself over this wretched thread.... Hekate Nov 16 #72

This !!! Winger messaging permiating DU is crazy uponit7771 Nov 16 #98

Push back hard Hekate Nov 16 #116

right !! uponit7771 Nov 16 #96

Nothing you say makes any difference ibegurpard Nov 16 #27

I got your "faux elitism." Paladin Nov 16 #28

Sadly, I doubt that blue collar workers will get it until they've all lost their unions. PeaceWave Nov 16 #30

Most blue collar workers don't have unions. Hellbound Hellhound Nov 16 #36

So, are you saying these workers would prefer to have no benefits? The GOP can arrange that. PeaceWave Nov 16 #37

Why don't you JustAnotherGen Nov 16 #89

Democrats should focus on economic issues and keep cultural issues at local level dalton99a Nov 16 #38

100% agreed. n/t Hellbound Hellhound Nov 16 #41

Enumerate which ones you mean. Women's reproductive rights and care? Racism? All that? Hekate Nov 16 #47

Abortions wasn't important to 70-80% of people; We focused on shit people didn't care about. Hellbound Hellhound Nov 16 #52

THE HELL YOU SAY Hekate Nov 16 #73

Boom! JustAnotherGen Nov 16 #90

Thanks. I CAN'T BELIEVE I STILL HAVE TO PROTEST THIS SHIT Hekate Nov 16 #93

This person thinks JustAnotherGen Nov 16 #139

When these accursed forced-birthers moved away from "babies" and started redefining... Hekate Nov 16 #151

You don't think people care about abortion? BlueHurricane Nov 16 #106

"We"? lolol -- TBF Nov 16 #113

Jesus H. Christ. What is wrong with you? Scrivener7 Nov 16 #117

1 in 4 American women have had an abortion. Far more than 2%. sinkingfeeling Nov 16 #128

They'll use cultural issues no matter what the Dems do (2004 gay marriage). Duncan Grant Nov 16 #69

Leave civil rights and individual liberties to the states? EnergizedLib Nov 17 #185

"All of us need to better and to give up on our faux elitism." J_William_Ryan Nov 16 #40

How about "we" address the rank misogyny in this country? Hekate Nov 16 #43

So as of this post, I'm out. Hellbound Hellhound Nov 16 #57

Good luck with your surgery! questionseverything Nov 16 #68

Best of luck w your surgery. Expect lots of pushback when you return. Hekate Nov 16 #95

When can we start addressing "class" issues? That's the fertile ground, imho. Duncan Grant Nov 16 #71

Last, sedateed, post before I go in. Agreeee. Hellbound Hellhound Nov 16 #74

YESSSS!!! Prairie Gates Nov 16 #83

Didn't W win running on a promise of a direct payment to citizens? JoseBalow Nov 16 #76

Democrats need to return to a full-throated critique of CAPITALISM Prairie Gates Nov 16 #82

A good middle-ground is to critique UNFETTERED CAPITALISM. nt Shermann Nov 16 #138

and how Predatory Capitalism caused inflation. Emile Nov 17 #163

Uh huh NoRethugFriends Nov 16 #84

It will be the working class that suffers most from Trump's rule liberalgunwilltravel Nov 16 #88

We also need better ways to get the messages delivered. hadEnuf Nov 16 #131

H1N5 is starting to mutate enough it might be able to jump to humans. haele Nov 17 #157

PoC are mostly "working class" too uponit7771 Nov 16 #94

Yeah, but you and me both know that's not what they mean when they say "working class." Iggo Nov 16 #100

True, its just we allow "they" to define the conversation way too much uponit7771 Nov 16 #112

I would have bet that surgery... appmanga Nov 16 #102

Ah another voice Bettie Nov 16 #105

I absolutely believe the "isms" and "ics" matter. slightlv Nov 16 #108

Which "Working Class"? The Unions went in large numbers to Harris. haele Nov 16 #109

What a load of absolute right wing, corporate media BS SocialDemocrat61 Nov 16 #119

Just a reprehensible thread krkaufman Nov 16 #122

Thank you. Scrivener7 Nov 16 #147

She won the working class of all groups other than white people JI7 Nov 16 #129

Thank you. Yavin4 Nov 16 #149

The problem is propaganda Diraven Nov 16 #134

Are you kidding me Figarosmom Nov 16 #137

Trump's tariffs will likely create an immediate spike in inflation Shermann Nov 16 #140

+1000 nt WarGamer Nov 16 #143

it's the republicans who keep "isms" going. They are the ones who are DESPERATE ecstatic Nov 16 #144

It's remarkable ... krkaufman Nov 16 #152

I hope your arm surgery is fully successful. CoopersDad Nov 16 #150

I can walk and chew gum at the same time! Eko Nov 16 #154

FFS how many more times are we going to have this thread? Blue_Tires Nov 17 #155

They don't WANT to believe it JustAnotherGen Nov 22 #239

I agree, at least to a degree mvd Nov 17 #156

We have to stop the propaganda they are consuming before ANYTHING travelingthrulife Nov 17 #175

You smuggled in a falsehood Shermann Nov 17 #160

We need to improve our messaging. Emile Nov 17 #162

Here.we go again. With obsessive focus on economic JCMach1 Nov 17 #166

We need to fix our messaging pinkstarburst Nov 17 #168

The problem is the more stupidi of white folks get the "economic anxiety" something awful anytime a Republican isn't TheKentuckian Nov 17 #170

The demand for liberal purity got us into this mess mainer Nov 17 #171

This is true. Fish700 Nov 17 #191

'"Racism!" "Sexism!" "Transphobic!" but at the end of the day none of that mattered' marmar Nov 17 #173

No isms, so no classism. Solly Mack Nov 17 #174

"let's start winning election and speak to the people crying out for help." WhiskeyGrinder Nov 17 #176

This sums up the U.S. problem. yardwork Nov 21 #200

Misinformation is what has the maga voters locked in oldmanlynn Nov 17 #178

No. intheflow Nov 17 #179

Can we stop this myth about the wonderful working class? kansasobama Nov 17 #180

If the Dems do that, they will lose me for good Blasphemer Nov 17 #189

Democrats need to address that there's a massive propaganda problem in this country. Initech Nov 18 #192

I hate to admit it RJ_MacReady Nov 18 #194

You obviously saw a different election than I did karynnj Nov 21 #199

She never ran an ad PennRalphie Nov 21 #207

I live in Vermont, where there were very few ads period karynnj Nov 21 #223

I live in western PA PennRalphie Nov 21 #224

But it's simply isn't true Jk23 Nov 21 #232

Some people also find the identity politics stuff unbearable iemanja Nov 21 #201

I think that's exactly wrong. yardwork Nov 21 #202

No, I don't believe that iemanja Nov 21 #203

I think you're letting the Republicans gaslight you. yardwork Nov 21 #212

I know full well she didn't, and I said as much at the time iemanja Nov 21 #214

One thing I would request of the drop the isms crowd JustAnotherGen Nov 21 #204

I see your point iemanja Nov 21 #205

do you have a credible source for this backlash? I'm finding a lot of claims but no credible sources... Thx in advance uponit7771 Nov 21 #206

I've read lots of posts on social media iemanja Nov 21 #208

That's anecdote not data from credible source like Gallop showing how "isms" affected voting patterns. What we do have uponit7771 Nov 21 #216

One example iemanja Nov 21 #209

Anecdote... Just need a credible source relative to the claim... Tia uponit7771 Nov 21 #215

What do you mean by a credible source? iemanja Nov 21 #217

We all tend to be products of our environment, information we're surrounded with might not be true uponit7771 Nov 21 #218

I see your point iemanja Nov 21 #219

This adds do move voters just didn't change votes, this was a turn out election for MAGA too uponit7771 Nov 21 #222

It's hard to get the message out with the media we have nini Nov 21 #211

I would add Twitter to that too JustAnotherGen Nov 21 #213

Absolutely! nini Nov 22 #237

2024 was about preserving the wealthy white anglo male christian patriarchy GoreWon2000 Nov 21 #220

I can't believe this bullshit generated so much discussion. Scrivener7 Nov 21 #221

The presidential campaign did insist that the economy was great. That was a giant mistake. Voltaire2 Nov 21 #231

Funny how Kamala's campaign was all about the business of the people and helping them. Jit423 Nov 22 #238