General Discussion

paleotn

(19,816 posts)

110. You're only getting part of the picture. You forgot about personal and dependent exemptions.

Sat Nov 16, 2024, 07:26 PM

Nov 16

and their impact on your math. In 2017, pre Trump tax "cut", a family of 4, married filing jointly, got a 12,700 standard deduction and 16,200 in personal exemptions (4 x 4,050). 28,900 in total deductions.

Post Trump tax "cut", their standard deduction increased to 24,000 but personal / dependent exemptions were suspended until 2025. Apologies, but 28,900 is bigger than 24,000.

Changes in tax brackets lightened the load for some, increased it for others. Add the SALT deduction caps and no one in the working class demo can get anywhere near the 24,000 standard deduction hurdle to help lighten their load. Those in higher tax blue states were particularly impacted by the caps on state tax deductions. That was by design.

In short, it's only the very wealth who benefited significantly. Some in the low to middle income brackets got a little back, some had to pay more. A mixed bag, but certainly NOT a windfall for anyone who, by anyone's standards, isn't wealthy.

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Democrats need to address the "Working Class" problem and get over the "Isms" [View all] Hellbound Hellhound Nov 16 OP

Yes, racism and sexism DID matter. If Kamala were a middle-aged Scrivener7 Nov 16 #1

So the race was lost as soon as Biden stepped down and she became the candidate? jalan48 Nov 16 #17

Biden is a straight, white man. paleotn Nov 16 #31

So we should begin to lie to them like Trump did? travelingthrulife Nov 16 #97

That's it. It's impossible to win against a rich white man who lies about everything, promises everything, viva la Nov 16 #101

This message was self-deleted by its author ShazzieB Nov 16 #104

That's the message I got from it. yardwork Nov 17 #169

I'm not sure what we're supposed to do differently, either! o/ ShazzieB Nov 17 #186

Not hardly. Take credit where credit is due. There's a hell of a lot of credit we're due in that regard. paleotn Nov 16 #126

Well is capitalism Akakoji Nov 16 #133

Look at the numbers!!! It was race and gender!!! That is the WHOLE story!!! Scrivener7 Nov 16 #103

No, actually, we didn't twist ourselves into knots over it. paleotn Nov 16 #115

Then we made a mistake nominating VP Harris? And from here on only EITHER non-white OR kelly1mm Nov 16 #136

Yes. It is. And we have been beaten over the head twice now with that fact. Scrivener7 Nov 16 #141

Well that hits like a 2x4! Maybe (probably?) true though. I fear the first woman in the WH will be a R. nt kelly1mm Nov 16 #142

Oh, God. You might be right. And look at that field of possibilities. Gabbard, the Russian asset, Scrivener7 Nov 16 #145

Laura Trump, the next Senator from FL and (potential) future 1st woman President? She has the name ... nt kelly1mm Nov 16 #146

I'm nauseous. Scrivener7 Nov 16 #148

THIS!!!! n/t DemonGoddess Nov 18 #193

I can imagine more qualified candidates in fact more qualified female candidates Jk23 Nov 21 #225

No. Racism and sexism among our own is what came back to bite us. Look at the numbers. Scrivener7 Nov 21 #228

Sexism maybe but the US has no problem electing a black president. NT Jk23 Nov 21 #233

America has no problem electing a black president who has enough charisma to stop a train. Scrivener7 Nov 21 #235

Totally agree with every word get the red out Nov 21 #230

Agreed "economic insecurity" is bs. intheflow Nov 17 #181

I don't disagree. ShazzieB Nov 17 #187

I do too. It's heartbreaking. Scrivener7 Nov 17 #190

Biden beat Trump. This time aging affected how he came across JI7 Nov 16 #125

By a damn landslide. Scrivener7 Nov 17 #182

We need a more populist message get the red out Nov 21 #229

No it didn't. Many know it but just don't want to accept it, because accepting it admits failure. n/t Hellbound Hellhound Nov 16 #33

Replying late, but just have to say I definitely agree! ShazzieB Nov 17 #188

I'm seeing a lot about messaging and I get that. A Bernie type of candidate may have wiped the floor with tRump yaesu Nov 16 #2

I get it. Some of our founders got it too. paleotn Nov 16 #42

Messaging means nothing if voters don't feel like the Democrats have done enough for them... DSandra Nov 16 #48

The republicans are all about isms Keepthesoulalive Nov 16 #3

Reps have ACKNOWLEDGED them in a way Dems didn't. Hellbound Hellhound Nov 16 #7

They are eating the cats and dogs, Puerto Rico is a garbage island. Keepthesoulalive Nov 16 #35

It's almost like our messaging didn't reach the voters! Glad we agree! Hellbound Hellhound Nov 16 #39

No we don't agree Keepthesoulalive Nov 16 #53

Considering those states are some of the highest concentrations of Black Americans, I wonder what you mean. n/t Hellbound Hellhound Nov 16 #56

Look at the Demos JustAnotherGen Nov 16 #61

It's a very good question. If people think letting magats suffer after voting for Tadpole Raisin Nov 16 #65

"... why hasn't that happened in southern states?" Mariana Nov 17 #165

Gerrymandering and voter suppression Keepthesoulalive Nov 16 #78

Good luck with your procedure. As for the OP, we left-of-center libs/progressive Dems are at... brush Nov 21 #234

I seem to recall hearing many times kacekwl Nov 16 #62

Harris Had Plans OhioTim Nov 16 #114

Manipulate them to get votes, but they are good in being con artists... DSandra Nov 16 #49

It is easy to manipulate someone Keepthesoulalive Nov 16 #59

Yep, MAGA framing is as if PoC aren't mostly "working class" ... M$M repeats it ad nauseum uponit7771 Nov 16 #91

Thread is typical product of brainwashing krkaufman Nov 16 #123

I agree. Bernie has been saying this for awhile, but it's not a message favored by the wealth class. jalan48 Nov 16 #4

Agreed. "Identity" is a losing message, period. We're losing the AA and Latino vote to economic extremists. n/t Hellbound Hellhound Nov 16 #9

What African American vote? JustAnotherGen Nov 16 #15

92% of less than 10% of the American voting populace isn't enough. n/t Hellbound Hellhound Nov 16 #18

Exactly JustAnotherGen Nov 16 #25

I do agree with that. So how do we reach them? Hellbound Hellhound Nov 16 #29

That's on you JustAnotherGen Nov 16 #60

You can't have a party of just black woman and Rich over educated white people Jk23 Nov 21 #226

But what if we don't do the work JustAnotherGen Nov 21 #236

Messaging ? Your think republican kacekwl Nov 16 #79

I like how this guy JustAnotherGen Nov 16 #81

Didn't apparently try to convince his mom and grandma that they were voting for a racist transphobe either... AZSkiffyGeek Nov 16 #111

Yep krkaufman Nov 16 #124

What did he do for them? Keepthesoulalive Nov 16 #135

I'm genuinely confused by your message. yardwork Nov 17 #167

Here's a hint: Bettie Nov 17 #172

Wrong dead wrong... JT45242 Nov 16 #5

"Or their misinformed, uneducated PERCEPTION of the economy" soandso Nov 16 #21

Uneducated isn't wrong JustAnotherGen Nov 16 #67

But they still have the right to vote...so...they will go with the one who speaks like they do. Lucky Luciano Nov 16 #85

Perception is reality...marshall mcluhan JT45242 Nov 16 #153

As someone who is in the bottom 80%, people saying that the economy is great when its not for them... DSandra Nov 16 #51

The biggest economic gains were in the bottom half... JT45242 Nov 17 #164

Exactly Sunsky Nov 16 #75

"It's the stupid, stupid." krkaufman Nov 16 #130

I think the perception thing goes two ways Jk23 Nov 21 #227

tell me exactly how repukes are helping the working class Skittles Nov 16 #6

Trump doubled the standard deduction, increased the Child Tax Credit, and expanded the Earned Income Tax Credit Shermann Nov 16 #13

Exactly. Even if he's lying, he's telling people what they want to hear. n/t Hellbound Hellhound Nov 16 #14

Trump mishandled covid and crashed the fucking economy Skittles Nov 16 #19

nope. any other questions? Takket Nov 16 #34

He seems to have been given a pass on the pandemic. Shermann Nov 16 #46

HE RODE ON OBAMA'S ACCOMPLISHMENTS Skittles Nov 16 #54

I do blame Dems and the media ... krkaufman Nov 16 #132

Yes, doubled the standard deduction, but due to shifts in the tax brackets.... paleotn Nov 16 #55

You got the increased itemization threshold backwards Shermann Nov 16 #58

The tax brackets changed, eliminating most of that benefit of an increased standard deduction. paleotn Nov 16 #63

I do my own taxes and don't share your view. nt Shermann Nov 16 #64

I do mine and do share my view. paleotn Nov 16 #66

Ok I guess we're going there. Shermann Nov 16 #80

You're only getting part of the picture. You forgot about personal and dependent exemptions. paleotn Nov 16 #110

You smuggled two dependents into the equation Shermann Nov 16 #120

They're undocumented. Let it slide. paleotn Nov 16 #127

OK I reran the 2017 numbers from my original example Shermann Nov 17 #159

He fucked the State Income Tax States JustAnotherGen Nov 16 #77

Yes, families in high-tax states were the losers there. nt Shermann Nov 16 #92

You know how kacekwl Nov 16 #121

Actuality doesn't matter. Perception trumps reality, pardon the pun. paleotn Nov 16 #45

The price of eggs mattered. Pure b.s. and a cover story for stolen election. Just my thought. Botany Nov 16 #8

This message was self-deleted by its author Chin music Nov 16 #10

You seem to have bought into Republican SharonClark Nov 16 #11

The Democratic Candidates JustAnotherGen Nov 16 #12

We are absolutely natural survivors Dem4life1234 Nov 20 #195

I'm not reading M$M media right now - JustAnotherGen Nov 21 #198

I don't blame you for feeling that way. yardwork Nov 21 #210

lmao tldr Nimble_Idea Nov 16 #16

So much advice, so many simple answers...nt Fiendish Thingy Nov 16 #20

You're right. The needed answers are incredibly simple. n/t Hellbound Hellhound Nov 16 #24

Then why are you upthread JustAnotherGen Nov 16 #87

Of course they might be simple answers to the wrong questions. Fiendish Thingy Nov 16 #107

Don't worry guys. Next time new messaging: "Free Brawndo for all. Brawndo has electrolytes! It's got what plants crave!" spudspud Nov 16 #22

Thank you JustAnotherGen Nov 16 #26

what about black working class voters who are reliably Democratic? bigtree Nov 16 #23

What about 'em? Their numbers are irrelevant and even if they weren't, Trump's eating into them. Hellbound Hellhound Nov 16 #32

'Their numbers are irrelevant' bigtree Nov 16 #44

"Offensive" if you refuse to consider raw numbers and basic math. Hellbound Hellhound Nov 16 #50

you didn't talk numbers bigtree Nov 16 #70

What he says about women also makes my skin crawl. What a load of magagop. Hekate Nov 16 #118

You didn't listen to the messaging. It was all about working class needs. travelingthrulife Nov 16 #86

"We're losing Blacks" This is false on its face, same number of blacks voted for Harris this time than last time ... uponit7771 Nov 16 #99

Fucking Kanye West puts on a stupid fucking MAGA hat and they claim blacks are moving toward fucking MAGA. SoFlaBro Nov 17 #158

92% of Black voters supported Biden, but only 86% backed Harris Shermann Nov 17 #161

That is false or misleading Biden did not get 92% of the Black vote He got 87% standingtall Nov 17 #177

THANK YOU!!! uponit7771 Nov 17 #184

Please quote your claim from the article, I could not find it after text search and reading it uponit7771 Nov 17 #183

It's such a bullshit lie Dem4life1234 Nov 20 #196

Right, makes me think something ... non science... uponit7771 Nov 20 #197

Thank you Bigtree. I am about beside myself over this wretched thread.... Hekate Nov 16 #72

This !!! Winger messaging permiating DU is crazy uponit7771 Nov 16 #98

Push back hard Hekate Nov 16 #116

right !! uponit7771 Nov 16 #96

Nothing you say makes any difference ibegurpard Nov 16 #27

I got your "faux elitism." Paladin Nov 16 #28

Sadly, I doubt that blue collar workers will get it until they've all lost their unions. PeaceWave Nov 16 #30

Most blue collar workers don't have unions. Hellbound Hellhound Nov 16 #36

So, are you saying these workers would prefer to have no benefits? The GOP can arrange that. PeaceWave Nov 16 #37

Why don't you JustAnotherGen Nov 16 #89

Democrats should focus on economic issues and keep cultural issues at local level dalton99a Nov 16 #38

100% agreed. n/t Hellbound Hellhound Nov 16 #41

Enumerate which ones you mean. Women's reproductive rights and care? Racism? All that? Hekate Nov 16 #47

Abortions wasn't important to 70-80% of people; We focused on shit people didn't care about. Hellbound Hellhound Nov 16 #52

THE HELL YOU SAY Hekate Nov 16 #73

Boom! JustAnotherGen Nov 16 #90

Thanks. I CAN'T BELIEVE I STILL HAVE TO PROTEST THIS SHIT Hekate Nov 16 #93

This person thinks JustAnotherGen Nov 16 #139

When these accursed forced-birthers moved away from "babies" and started redefining... Hekate Nov 16 #151

You don't think people care about abortion? BlueHurricane Nov 16 #106

"We"? lolol -- TBF Nov 16 #113

Jesus H. Christ. What is wrong with you? Scrivener7 Nov 16 #117

1 in 4 American women have had an abortion. Far more than 2%. sinkingfeeling Nov 16 #128

They'll use cultural issues no matter what the Dems do (2004 gay marriage). Duncan Grant Nov 16 #69

Leave civil rights and individual liberties to the states? EnergizedLib Nov 17 #185

"All of us need to better and to give up on our faux elitism." J_William_Ryan Nov 16 #40

How about "we" address the rank misogyny in this country? Hekate Nov 16 #43

So as of this post, I'm out. Hellbound Hellhound Nov 16 #57

Good luck with your surgery! questionseverything Nov 16 #68

Best of luck w your surgery. Expect lots of pushback when you return. Hekate Nov 16 #95

When can we start addressing "class" issues? That's the fertile ground, imho. Duncan Grant Nov 16 #71

Last, sedateed, post before I go in. Agreeee. Hellbound Hellhound Nov 16 #74

YESSSS!!! Prairie Gates Nov 16 #83

Didn't W win running on a promise of a direct payment to citizens? JoseBalow Nov 16 #76

Democrats need to return to a full-throated critique of CAPITALISM Prairie Gates Nov 16 #82

A good middle-ground is to critique UNFETTERED CAPITALISM. nt Shermann Nov 16 #138

and how Predatory Capitalism caused inflation. Emile Nov 17 #163

Uh huh NoRethugFriends Nov 16 #84

It will be the working class that suffers most from Trump's rule liberalgunwilltravel Nov 16 #88

We also need better ways to get the messages delivered. hadEnuf Nov 16 #131

H1N5 is starting to mutate enough it might be able to jump to humans. haele Nov 17 #157

PoC are mostly "working class" too uponit7771 Nov 16 #94

Yeah, but you and me both know that's not what they mean when they say "working class." Iggo Nov 16 #100

True, its just we allow "they" to define the conversation way too much uponit7771 Nov 16 #112

I would have bet that surgery... appmanga Nov 16 #102

Ah another voice Bettie Nov 16 #105

I absolutely believe the "isms" and "ics" matter. slightlv Nov 16 #108

Which "Working Class"? The Unions went in large numbers to Harris. haele Nov 16 #109

What a load of absolute right wing, corporate media BS SocialDemocrat61 Nov 16 #119

Just a reprehensible thread krkaufman Nov 16 #122

Thank you. Scrivener7 Nov 16 #147

She won the working class of all groups other than white people JI7 Nov 16 #129

Thank you. Yavin4 Nov 16 #149

The problem is propaganda Diraven Nov 16 #134

Are you kidding me Figarosmom Nov 16 #137

Trump's tariffs will likely create an immediate spike in inflation Shermann Nov 16 #140

+1000 nt WarGamer Nov 16 #143

it's the republicans who keep "isms" going. They are the ones who are DESPERATE ecstatic Nov 16 #144

It's remarkable ... krkaufman Nov 16 #152

I hope your arm surgery is fully successful. CoopersDad Nov 16 #150

I can walk and chew gum at the same time! Eko Nov 16 #154

FFS how many more times are we going to have this thread? Blue_Tires Nov 17 #155

They don't WANT to believe it JustAnotherGen Nov 22 #239

I agree, at least to a degree mvd Nov 17 #156

We have to stop the propaganda they are consuming before ANYTHING travelingthrulife Nov 17 #175

You smuggled in a falsehood Shermann Nov 17 #160

We need to improve our messaging. Emile Nov 17 #162

Here.we go again. With obsessive focus on economic JCMach1 Nov 17 #166

We need to fix our messaging pinkstarburst Nov 17 #168

The problem is the more stupidi of white folks get the "economic anxiety" something awful anytime a Republican isn't TheKentuckian Nov 17 #170

The demand for liberal purity got us into this mess mainer Nov 17 #171

This is true. Fish700 Nov 17 #191

'"Racism!" "Sexism!" "Transphobic!" but at the end of the day none of that mattered' marmar Nov 17 #173

No isms, so no classism. Solly Mack Nov 17 #174

"let's start winning election and speak to the people crying out for help." WhiskeyGrinder Nov 17 #176

This sums up the U.S. problem. yardwork Nov 21 #200

Misinformation is what has the maga voters locked in oldmanlynn Nov 17 #178

No. intheflow Nov 17 #179

Can we stop this myth about the wonderful working class? kansasobama Nov 17 #180

If the Dems do that, they will lose me for good Blasphemer Nov 17 #189

Democrats need to address that there's a massive propaganda problem in this country. Initech Nov 18 #192

I hate to admit it RJ_MacReady Nov 18 #194

You obviously saw a different election than I did karynnj Nov 21 #199

She never ran an ad PennRalphie Nov 21 #207

I live in Vermont, where there were very few ads period karynnj Nov 21 #223

I live in western PA PennRalphie Nov 21 #224

But it's simply isn't true Jk23 Nov 21 #232

Some people also find the identity politics stuff unbearable iemanja Nov 21 #201

I think that's exactly wrong. yardwork Nov 21 #202

No, I don't believe that iemanja Nov 21 #203

I think you're letting the Republicans gaslight you. yardwork Nov 21 #212

I know full well she didn't, and I said as much at the time iemanja Nov 21 #214

One thing I would request of the drop the isms crowd JustAnotherGen Nov 21 #204

I see your point iemanja Nov 21 #205

do you have a credible source for this backlash? I'm finding a lot of claims but no credible sources... Thx in advance uponit7771 Nov 21 #206

I've read lots of posts on social media iemanja Nov 21 #208

That's anecdote not data from credible source like Gallop showing how "isms" affected voting patterns. What we do have uponit7771 Nov 21 #216

One example iemanja Nov 21 #209

Anecdote... Just need a credible source relative to the claim... Tia uponit7771 Nov 21 #215

What do you mean by a credible source? iemanja Nov 21 #217

We all tend to be products of our environment, information we're surrounded with might not be true uponit7771 Nov 21 #218

I see your point iemanja Nov 21 #219

This adds do move voters just didn't change votes, this was a turn out election for MAGA too uponit7771 Nov 21 #222

It's hard to get the message out with the media we have nini Nov 21 #211

I would add Twitter to that too JustAnotherGen Nov 21 #213

Absolutely! nini Nov 22 #237

2024 was about preserving the wealthy white anglo male christian patriarchy GoreWon2000 Nov 21 #220

I can't believe this bullshit generated so much discussion. Scrivener7 Nov 21 #221

The presidential campaign did insist that the economy was great. That was a giant mistake. Voltaire2 Nov 21 #231

Funny how Kamala's campaign was all about the business of the people and helping them. Jit423 Nov 22 #238