Stop the trolls, stop the division and stop the hate, please

[SCantiGOP]

It seems there are almost as many posts today bashing Sanders as there are attacking Trump and his allies who are trying to overthrow our constitutional democracy.
Biden has surely won the nomination. Why are so many still in primary attack mode?

I agree with most of Sanders positions, and I love his enthusiasm and very genuine dedication to the plight of average Americans. But I do not think he is electable, and fear that having him and his movement at the forefront of the Democratic Party could lead to more Republican success.
But I don’t understand the rage and hate on DU against fellow progressives who are absolutely essential if we are to save this country from the right wing forces now attempting to destroy our society. All that will be accomplished with the constant attacks and bashing of Sanders supporters is to do what Trump and the Russians want - drive a wedge between two natural allies and hurt our chances in November.

[William769]

1. Because Bernie is still in attack mode. Nt

[SCantiGOP]

5. "An eye for an eye,

and before long everyone is blind."
--Gandhi

[Atticus]

24. "Turn the other cheek". But, there are only four cheeks on the human body. nt

[Sunsky]

58. Should we sit back and take the lickings from Bernie and co?

That's what I'm hearing. How about Bernie drop out since he has no path and champion the unification of the party. Then there would be less tension. Anything less is unacceptable and deserves to be called out. My people are in serious trouble if Trump is re-elected. I have no time for games. Bernie is now being a spoiler in this process. Biden needs to pivot to the GE. He needs to conserve cash to go against the Trump machine. Also, we're in the midst of a health crisis. Instead to whining about elections not being postponed, how about the person who isn't the people's choice exit the race and save folks from having to go vote. Stop acting so concerned yet proceed in such a selfish manner.
The GE is life and death for some people. The people have spoken time and time again in these primaries and Biden is their choice. The stakes are much higher for some of us. It's time for Biden vs Trump.

[LanternWaste]

2. Once the primary is over, we'll stand side by side again.

"Why are so many still in primary attack mode?"

Because the primary isn't over. It could be... but a stubbornness disregard for math precludes us from shutting the door on it and getting on with the general.

[LongtimeAZDem]

3. This +1

[SCantiGOP]

6. Missing my point entirely

We may find fewer Sanders supporters willing to stand by our side when that time comes, but if you're convinced this acrimony is necessary...........

[George II]

9. Acrimony is being created by Sanders' staffers and surrogates, and he's doing nothing about it.

[thesquanderer]

11. Sanders' staffers and surrogates are not the folks posting negatively on DU. n/t

[George II]

14. How many times have we seen that truncated video of Biden "calling for cuts to SS"? How many times..

....have we seen that truncated video of Biden saying he'll veto "medicare for all"?

Right here on DU. That's not negative?

[thesquanderer]

17. Honestly, I haven't seen either of them here on DU. (nt)

[George II]

19. I have. And aside from just DU, over the weekend David Sirota posted at least 20 times a video....

...."showing" that Biden is suffering from dementia.

Stuff like this is why people are lashing out, they're sick of it and we're now at a point where there is no possible way of Sanders winning the nomination and yet his "people" are still trashing the Democratic Party and Joe Biden.

There is no logical reason for them to be doing this at this point of the campaign, but they do.

[emmaverybo]

25. ++++++++++++++++++

[mercuryblues]

63. We went through the same in 2016

How did that work out for us?

Sanders has no chance of winning and he is out there still attacking Democrats. If he continues he will only divide the party as he did in 2016 and we get trump for 4 more years. There's no excusing this. We've seen this play out before. He's lost and his poutrage is not conducive to uniting the party and building a blue wall against ALL fucking republicans.

We need to get out the vote in such huge numbers to overcome gerrymandering, voter suppression and possible USSR interference.

[George II]

22. Furthermore, look at this posted here on DU just minutes ago:

https://www.democraticunderground.com/12967439

"Bernie Sanders Is the Only Candidate Focused on How Coronavirus Will Ravage the Most Vulnerable"

That is totally FALSE, and there is no need to post something like that on DU, especially with what's going on out there. That isn't an "attack" on Biden?

[thesquanderer]

23. I never said there are no anti-Biden posts on DU.

I said that they are not (AFAIK) from the Sanders campaign or surrogates.

But of course there have been anti-Boden posts here. Probably fewer than half as many as anti-Sanders posts, but it would be silly to say there have been none.

[George II]

27. Considering that Biden has more than double the support on DU as Sanders (now 36%-14%)....

....the attacks on Biden are disproportionate to Sanders' support.

I wish we saw none of it, but there's the old chicken and egg thing going on, too.

[thesquanderer]

38. I think Biden having more than double Sanders' support here is a relatively recent occurrence...

Last edited Wed Mar 18, 2020, 10:04 AM - Edit history (1)

...i.e. since Warren dropped out. Regardless, I just scanned the OPs of the past 48 hours. Plenty of anti-Sanders posts. Not a single anti-Biden post.*

I've done this kind of analysis a couple of times before. Every time, anti-Sanders posts significantly outnumber anti-Biden posts. Check for yourself.

* ETA: ...except the one that you posted about! I had missed that one because it was in the Sanders group (I only checked the Dem Primary group), and I probably would have missed it anyway because it did not mention Biden in the subject line, and I was only analyzing negative subject lines.

[Tweedy]

45. I have

Way too many times.

Although I agree sore winnerism is not a good policy.

[barbtries]

41. check out Twitter.

they're all over it. they're so outnumbered here on DU I think they've essentially stopped trying.

[thesquanderer]

47. I'm not on twitter. But this thread has been about posts on DU.

I don't think there's any benefit to be had by posting here to counter what people do on twitter.

[barbtries]

48. they could be considered informative

for those who don't witness the behavior on social media.

[thesquanderer]

66. Twitter is largely a cesspool of crap, from what I've seen. (Facebook too.)

If folks here don't like what folks are doing on Twitter, then why not just answer them on Twitter? Don't take it out on the rest of us here who are (mostly) trying to maintain more civil, reasoned conversation than what more often happens there.

[barbtries]

67. you may think it's a cesspool of crap.

the fact is it is the primary point of communication for many politically engaged people of every stripe. DU is actually pretty small in comparison. Also generationally speaking, it's young. I find it to be a great source both for news and for validation during an extremely stressful time in our country. I can't imagine that you've missed how many posts on DU originate on Twitter.

they also have (as does FB) a really good functional block option. I use it liberally and as a result am saved from having to look at a lot of shit. I got my twitter account in 2009 or 2011 and never used it until after trump became president. since then it is literally where i go to vent about the state of the world and rant incessantly about republicans and trump and his cult. huge stress reliever.

Look, i don't want to dump on Bernie or anyone else (trump, republicans excepted). I just hope he takes the long view and gets out sooner than later, and hopefully he can persuade some of his supporters to vote in November, for the Democrat.

[thesquanderer]

69. I have no problem with people who use twitter or facebook. I'm just saying...

...if something on twitter ticks you off, deal with it on twitter, don't go on attack here on DU against what has been done by people who aren't even here.

And I know twitter/fb has good stuff too. There just seems to be lower signal-to-noise and more malicious/false stuff than we typically see here on DU. You don't generally have to navigate so carefully here.

[True Blue American]

52. I agree with that about Twitter!

It is a muck raking swamp and I get tired of reading the retweets.

[dansolo]

50. No, but they are posting on twitter

We here are just a small subset. The Sanders campaign is still blasting their attacks all over.

[KitSileya]

56. His staff is too busy calling Tom Perez a murderer on twitter

to post on DU. They think he's a murderer for letting the primary continue, while their boss, the famous micro-manager who won't let his underlings do anything without running it past him first, refuses to concede, keeping the primary going.

[betsuni]

57. +1

[NurseJackie]

61. Oh please... you're worried about a handful of Sanders supporters? Meanwhile...

Oh please... you're worried about a handful of Sanders supporters? Meanwhile, the BS campaign is in full scorched-earth mode with their efforts to kneecap Joe Biden and denigrate the Democratic party, what good purpose does that serve?

Is it worth trading a handful of hard-core malcontent Bernie supporters for hundreds of thousands of Never-Trump voters (and other first time voters) who are constantly being told that the Democratic party is corrupt? They're being told that our party is no different than the GOP? They're being told that Biden is senile?

Explain to me again how allowing THIS type of destructive behavior is helpful? Why are so few votes worth the trade of so many votes?

#BernieNeedsToGo

[showblue22]

4. He has negative ads out in swing states.

As long as he still thinks he can get the nomination then the show must go on.

[SCantiGOP]

8. I'm talking about how nasty the attacks are here

Take out the names "Sanders" and "Trump" from some posts, and you wouldn't know who was being attacked.

[Hav]

13. The two (attack ads and the reaction here) are connected

It may not be pretty or nice but the attacks against Bernie are a direct result because of the way BS and his camp behave(d). There is nothing comparable when you look at all the other candidates. Isn't it strange that the same antagonism cannot be found with any other candidate?
I don't disagree with your sentiment entirely and most BS supporters here are nice and decent because the loud ones seem to be gone. I'm just saying, there is a reason and as long as BS is in his campaign and Dem trashing mode, it won't go away.

[Cha]

31. EXACTLY! I don't see why some CanNOT See That!

The two (attack ads and the reaction here) are connected

It may not be pretty or nice but the attacks against Bernie are a direct result because of the way BS and his camp behave(d)

And, don't give me that "eye for an eye" .. we're Not rolling over.

[George II]

7. People are angry because Democrats have been attacked for decades by one candidate....

People are angry because there is absolutely no possible way one candidate can win and yet he refuses to face reality and withdraw.

People are angry because that candidate's surrogates and staffers have been relentlessly attacking Biden with abject lies and manipulated videos, damaging him and giving trump talking points and ad fodder.

People are angry because time is being wasted on a futile campaign instead of uniting behind our nominee and turning the campaign toward trump.

People are ANGRY, and they're getting angrier by the day.

[Cha]

32. Precisely, George!

The two (attack ads and the reaction here) are connected

It may not be pretty or nice but the attacks against Bernie are a direct result because of the way BS and his camp behave(d)

https://upload.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1287&pid=673431

It's only our Democracy on the line.

[MFGsunny]

54. + 1000 n/t

[frazzled]

10. It could all stop easily

after tonight or whenever: a suspension of the campaign and a move off the stage.

By the way, it’s not trolls, it’s Democrats

[R B Garr]

12. Exactly. He can suspend his campaign and start

supporting Democrats.

[Cha]

34. Thank You! "By the way, it's not trolls, it's Democrats"

[NCProgressive]

15. Bernie can stop all of the brickbat by dropping out

He has no chance but he is kneecapping Biden for what really?

[ibegurpard]

16. "But he started it..."

That's what we're dealing with here.

[Andy823]

18. I agree with you

One reason I don't post over here much at all, the trolls! It's pretty obvious who who they are and what they are doing. People have to remember "don't feed the trolls"!

[Blasphemer]

20. I personally don't consider him a "fellow progressive"...

And I do not consider his supporters "natural allies." It's a mistake to assume all progressivism is the same. It's the same as when there was a belief in just one feminist movement. Now, there is a recognition that there are many feminisms. I support Warren's progressivism. I don't support Bernie's. There is a dangerous underbelly to Bernie's that attracts racism, misogyny, and homophobia. It's rigid and inflexible and affirms fears of leftist authoritarianism. I think calling out the dangers of that form of progressivism is a good thing. There's this idea that the Sanders movement defines progressivism and it is very important to challenge that if we are to ever have a populist progressive agenda that actually appeals to a broad coalition of Americans. Bernie's is not it. I also increasingly question his "genuine dedication to the plight of average Americans." I want something better for progressive democrats and the progressive movement.

[showblue22]

21. Exactly! nt

[SCantiGOP]

26. So Sanders supporters are not 'natural allies'

Keep up the attacks, and you may not see any of these heretics standing in line with you on November 3 to vote against Trump.
That is what is most important to me, not winning this argument, or any argument with a Sanders supporter.

I know this is my original post, but I'm getting out of this thread. Not referring to you, Blasphemer, but I can see several trolls (one I have encountered several times on other posts, with 4 hidden threads in just a few weeks) who love posts like this to spread dissent and division.

[Blasphemer]

30. I'm also commited to voting out Trump. I'm confident that everyone who feels the same will vote. nt

[beastie boy]

28. The outrage is not against fellow progressives. It is against those who prevent fellow progressives

from uniting.

With all due respect, Bernie supporters don't own the "progressive" label. And too many of them go out of their way every opportunity they get to sow division among fellow progressives.

It takes two to tango, and I have yet to see any evidence that the extreme left is willing to unite with the rest of the progressives in defeating Trump. Once I see this happen, I will be the first to embrace them as allies in the common struggle.

[barbtries]

43. ' Bernie supporters don't own the "progressive" label.'

Thank you. I was told since I'm voting for Biden over Sanders that I am not a progressive. this was on Twitter.

[Demsrule86]

29. I don't love Sanders and he is helping Trump...he needs to concede...we have seen this before...

He is likely to reelect Trump...and here's the thing...I like nothing about him...Democrats have the same plans. And the fact that he is beating up our nominee is infuriating.

[LakeArenal]

33. Tell people like Nina Turner and David Sirota to shut the hell up

[Cha]

35. Yeah.. if he really wants it to stop.

[Turin_C3PO]

36. Things will settle down

here after the primaries. I agree that some of the rhetoric aimed at Sanders and his supporters is over the top. However he does have a certain amount of toxic supporters who are all over social media, spouting bile. I hope the two factions can unite before November or we’re in serious trouble.

[bluedye33139]

37. I think most people's minds are made up, so let's just be polite while the votes are counted

I think we need to focus on politeness at this point.

The remaining primaries are something to look forward to for everyone, and then the general. I am mildly optimistic, and my focus is on trying to remain positive personally.

[LizBeth]

39. Sanders is hurting us. Yet, we are being told to please be quiet.

I can't do that. I have never been an enabler. Or sacrificial victim for abuse. Just is not going to happen.

Sanders and his staffers are hurting us in many ways. It is wrong. I speak up against wrong. For a lifetime.

[barbtries]

40. Sanders isn't stopping.

his die-hard no one but Bernie supporters leave the rest of us with little choice.

why hasn't he suspended his campaign? why hasn't he stepped forward with his full-throated support of the presumptive nominee?

it's a sticky wicket. I don't make posts just to bitch about Sanders, but on Twitter I do block his followers, and why? They're dangerous. They would rather see trump win than to support Biden in this incredibly important election. I don't get that. It's so short-sighted.

I didn't get my candidate either. She realized the numbers weren't there and graciously stepped away from the race, and she would have been the best possible choice in my opinion. I'm not attacking the Democratic Party and refusing to vote over it.

[Aquaria]

42. When his supporters

Stop acting like they’re not only more-liberal-than-thou, but the only “true” liberals—while being willing to throw women minorities, LGBTs, workers, the poor, the elderly, the sick, the environment and more under the bus in the name of their ideological purity;

Stop hurling the ridiculous slander of “corporate” or “establishment” or “centrist” Democrat at anyone and everyone who dares to criticize or disagree with their Dear Leader;

Who tell the winning side in this primary that we have to cater to their losing candidate and his self-serving preachments —“ideas” that the voters most likely to consider them (you know, primary voters) don’t even want, and yet these same whiners think their ideas will win with a far less receptive audience in the general election, when they won’t be;

When they say our candidate has to pamper, coddle and cater to a demographics that can’t even bother to show up to vote for their guy in the here and now, when they should be the most motivated to get him to the next level, never mind doing it in November, while known voters are ripe for the taking (suburban soccer moms)—voters who do NOT have the same enthusiasm for your candidates stale “ideas;”

When you stop making outrageous claims about conspiracies and rigged votes and who know what other idiotic imagined phantasms that you can conjure up, rather than facing the reality that DEMOCRATIC VOTERS—LIBERALS—rejected your candidate and his “ideas,” and when you stop blaming the DNC, or “the establishment,” or the “corporate Dems” or the Illuminati or whoever the fuck your bogeyman of choice is rather than how VOTERS just weren’t into your candidate;

Then maybe people would be less critical and on edge about the destructiveness and selfishness of the candidate who is not only losing the nomination but also demonstrated zero effort to play well with others in support of the Democratic Party and it’s candidates, or, well, anyone in his entire DC career.

I’ve seen little in the way of criticizing the supporters other than legitimate complaints about their outright and frequent rudeness and occasional dishonesty about and toward other candidates and their supporters. Outside of that, much like deplorables, bernbots see any criticism of their Dear Leader as “attacks” on him and on themselves.

And you know what? I don’t appreciate threats from a MINORITY of voters who throw childish tantrums that threaten to take their toys and go home if they can’t get what they want, never mind what anyone else wants and needs. You’ve had your chance to persuade voters about your “ideas” of how to get where the Democratic needs to go and how. Those voters have made it clear they have other ideas about how to get there.

Rather than whining or throwing temper tantrums about it, grow up, pull up your big kid pants, and MOVE ON to support the candidate we have.

Plenty of us didn’t get our first choice, but we did the adult thing of getting the fuck over it to support the only candidate left. We did it not because we’re stupid or centrist or not liberal enough, but because we know he’s a good man with his head and heart in the right place, so we can trust him to do more good for the people of this country—ALL of them—than the treasonous, bigoted slimeball of a psychopath in office now. We do it because not voting for Biden or voting from some money-grubbing 3rd party kook will only get us four more years of the most irredeemable and evil psychopath ever vomited onto humanity.

We understand what’s really at stake here. It’s time for BS, the bomb-thrower lunatics in his own staff and those like them who are among his supporters to grow the fuck up and face that reality.

Maybe in another election we could blow them off, but not this time. Not when any chance of having decency and serving the greater good in this country is at stake. If the Democrat does not win this year, this country is DONE.

We who have gotten behind Biden for this, even when he wasn’t our first choice understand that the time for infighting is OVER. We put on our big kid pants and accept him as the nominee. It’s time for the deluded BS and his most reprehensible staff and supporters to do the same. If you don’t, then you can’t complain when real liberals criticize you and your candidate for caring more about your egos than about the country.

Or when we point out your hypocrisy for claiming to care oh-so-much-more than the rest of us about the vulnerable and oppressed, but how your not voting or throwing away your vote for mere spite insures the election of the candidate most likely to harm those very people you “claim” to care about gets elected.

[barbtries]

44. excellent post. nt

[Tweedy]

46. Here's the thing--

Right now, the democrats could beat his incompetence-in-chief with a potted plant.

Anyone who boycotts the election for whatever reason is supporting a right turn far far far away from Bernie Sanders.

Perhaps stressing this reality would be more helpful than expecting democrats to be pleased Bernie Sanders once more shows no sign that reality is penetrating his campaign? What's worse his campaign is engaging in flagrant fibs and character assassination again.

The good news is none of that negativity is likely to work since Joe Biden has a deep well of good will stored up with all of us.

We like Bernie a lot around here. Breakfast with Bernie is a program we enjoy. Nonetheless, Senator Sanders would benefit us all by recognizing the writing on the wall and exiting this primary.

From his perch inside the U.S. Senate, Senator Sanders can continue his amendment strategy. If he is really feisty, he could even add a serious legislative strategy too.

We need to unite and send the incompetent-in-chief and all of his keystone cop minions home.

This is a numbers game. United we win. Divided we fall.

[ecdab]

49. I agree

The math, the votes, the nominations - none are there for Bernie. Beating on his supporters accomplishes nothing and it speaks poorly of those doing the beating. For pity's sake, we've won. Bernie and his supports don't need to be ground into the dirt. Too many folks are acting like everybody else has to lose in order for them to win. That just isn't true.

Bernie is not the enemy. Trump is. Focus the righteous indignation on Trump. Bernie has very limited relevance to what happens next. Beating on the fractional amount of Bernie supports that visit this site may make some other folks that post here feel good for reasons that utterly escape me, but it ain't gonna get Bernie to officially drop out any sooner and ain't gonna help beat Trump.

Joe would be embarrassed by some of the nonsense being posted in his name. WTF people.

[duforsure]

51. Hey I like both candidates but reality sets in

And I think one will win over the other for many reasons but the sooner the better against trump we have one candidate. not one or both bashing each other, or supporters doing dumb things. which makes many look bad. I like Sanders better , but he hasn't got the support he'll need to get many if anything really done. There are things with Biden I don't like , but he does have the support in Congress , more than Bernie, but he's living in the past too much and not as progressive as I would like. Either one has got my vote rather than trump and the gop. Remember putin and trump wants us fighting among ourselves by dividing us.

[betsuni]

53. "Why are so many still in primary attack mode?"

Because Bernie Sanders is. The rage and hate comes from one direction. No, Trump and the Russians want constant attacks and bashing of Biden, of course. They said so.

[ms liberty]

55. Let's be real...the people you're talking about never stopped

After the 2016 election, the only difference is that they've been joined by newies who think that behavior is okay. I didn't support Bernie in this primary, I was in the Warren camp and I'm fine with Joe, I've always liked him and he will make a good POTUS if we can get him in there. But I don't think we need the ugliness and negativity.

[mvd]

59. Good post

Many people agree with Bernie on a lot but think Biden is the guy for these times. I don’t agree, as I think Bernie could turn socialism completely around on Trump, but I realize that bashing our likely nominee will only help elect Trump. It is Biden or Trump now, and the choice is obvious!

[OnDoutside]

60. This pandering to Sanders has got to stop. He's got beaten out the gate, and should do the right

thing in moving aside.

[Walleye]

62. I just heard a call-in from a Bernie supporter bring up Burisma and Hunter??!!

What is wrong with these people? Bernie himself has to speak out and put a stop to this shit. These self identified progressives are the ones standing in the way of progress!

[LongtimeAZDem]

64. The only one who can stop the division is Bernie himself; if he starts now, he MIGHT be able to

bring a large group of his supporters on board by the election.

[SCantiGOP]

65. You have only two choices

Upthread someone asked if we should just lay back and “continue to allow” Bernie and his supporters to attack Biden. It is a fact that you can’t do anything about how Bernie or his supporters will behave.
You have only two choices:
One- realize that the primary elections are now over, and move ahead (like our candidate is doing) into full General Election mode, and do what we can to bring Sanders supporters into the effort.
Two- continue the righteous fight against the other side, further alienate the people who have given their total effort to Bernie’s movement, and risk them not being with us during the campaign.

Tell me what the second course of action can accomplish, other than the usual social media Trumpian catharsis of “defeating” your opponent in a heroic keyboard battle.

We need to unite the party in a way it never was in 2016. The primaries are over and we should be focused solely on November and the one true enemy of all Americans.

[LongtimeAZDem]

68. As I said, the only one that can change things is Bernie himself; unless he actively works to bring

the "never Bidens" on board, nothing we do will sway them.

All we can do is ignore them, and try to persuade moderate independents and republicans to help us oust Trump.

It's all up to Bernie.

[renate]

70. Thank you!

You just said everything I'm thinking.