Women are rejecting Sanders

[Gothmog]

Link to tweet

For all the talk about Sen. Bernie Sanders’s diverse coalition and progressive outlook (and all the questions about the “likability” of female candidates), it should not escape notice that the biggest group of Democratic voters — women — overwhelmingly rejected the Vermont independent.

In Michigan, women made up 54 percent of the electorate; former vice president Joe Biden won 58 percent among these voters, compared to 35 percent for Sanders. In Missouri, women also accounted for 54 percent of the electorate; they chose Biden 64 to 32 percent. In Mississippi, 58 percent of the electorate was female; women chose Biden 83 to 12 percent.

Go back to Super Tuesday. Biden’s median support among women was 12 points higher than Sanders’s (37 to 25 percent) but only four points higher among men. In all Super Tuesday state exit polls, women made up more than 50 percent of the electorate — reaching roughly 60 percent in some cases (e.g. 58 percent in Minnesota, 61 percent in Alabama, 59 percent in Maine). That reflects the huge gender gap between the two parties that has only widened during the Trump era.....

Women’s aversion to Sanders may also be a rejection of the Bernie Bros phenomenon — the obnoxious harassment and even threats directed at women (including journalists and union leaders, as was the case in Nevada). Plenty of women did not think it was the least bit improbable that Sanders told Sen. Elizabeth Warren (D-Mass.) he did not think a woman could win. The only other candidate whose campaign ethos is so infused with testosterone is Trump.

The degree to which Sanders has turned off women is a fundamental problem for the left, which contrary to its self-conception is largely white and male. It is hard to present oneself as the vanguard of a diverse party when your coalition on race and gender (but not age) looks like a Republican coalition. Moreover, it is impossible to win as a Democrat without the support and enthusiasm of women.

[hlthe2b]

1. Maybe, but Sander's most vociferous and extreme supporters/campaign reps freak me out.

His demeanor isn't a big issue. That said, I absolutely adore Biden on a personal level, so there is probably some truth in it.

[Cha]

19. It has been for me.

[Haggis for Breakfast]

43. It's not his demeanor, it's his record in the Senate.

WHAT has he really done in all the years he's been there ?

And as far a consistency, many times he has voted more right than left.

I look at his record and I just don't see a man who has been effective in accomplishing much of anything.

[George II]

2. Just compare the two speeches on the same subject today. Biden was soothing and reassuring...

...Sanders was loud, irritated, and lapsed at times into his stump speech, bringing up "the 1%" a couple of times.

[sheshe2]

3. Exactly.

[Cha]

21. Jaysus.. and Bernie signs in the background.

[NurseJackie]

34. Oh, good lord!

bringing up "the 1%" a couple of times.

Oh, good lord!

[FM123]

4. I am a woman and I reject Sanders.

While I like and admire so many of his progressive ideas, I was horrified by the way he just looked the other way as his minions went hissing after Elizabeth Warren!

[bucolic_frolic]

5. What? They don't like a finger-waving angry shouting man who thinks he's right about everything?

They've all had enough authoritarianism in their lives.

[llmart]

32. +1000

[smirkymonkey]

48. +1000

I can't stand the guy. He just rubs me the wrong way.

Also, I have had a personal run in with him years ago that has put me off as well. I was a waitress in Burlington, VT right after I graduated from college and he came into the restaurant that I was working at with 3 of his colleagues and I waited on his table.

Not only was he incredibly rude and dismissive ("get us more bread&quot - no manners, but he left me a measly 10% tip. I was very polite to them and their food came out on time. There was nothing wrong with the service. He was just a cheapskate who apparently didn't really think that women deserved a living wage.

Not only that, but he just strikes me as an angry old man who will not be able to get along with anyone and doesn't really give a damn about anyone but white men.

[Paladin]

58. +1000. (nt)

[sheshe2]

6. Fact is...

Fact is he thinks money and equal pay will cure all ills. He does not consider social justice a huge issue as it will be taken care of when they are equally paid. It doesn't stop male lawmakers from telling women what to do with their bodies, it doesn't stop rape or harassment. On his own campaign that happened and on his own campaign women were paid less than men.

Yes women are angry too. We said no.

[LisaM]

9. Yes, although she didn't say anything at the time, I think this is how he lost Rachel in 2016.

You'll recall the day that Trump said women should "be punished" for abortions, and Rachel trudged after the candidates and asked them about this.

Sanders said - and I am paraphrasing, but I think this is close, "of course women shouldn't be punished for having abortions (some other chatter), but Rachel, can we get back to talking about what's really important in this country, income inequality?"

It's seared in my brain, it was so tone deaf.

[sheshe2]

14. Yep.

That and Planned Parenthood is the dreaded 'Establishment" what ever that means. They were called that because they endorsed a woman that once said...

“It is past time for women to take their rightful place, side by side with men, in the rooms where the fates of peoples, where their children’s and grandchildren’s fates, are decided.” -Hillary Clinton

“If a country doesn’t recognize minority rights and human rights, including women’s rights, you will not have the kind of stability and prosperity that is possible.” -Hillary Clinton

“You cannot have maternal health without reproductive health. And reproductive health includes contraception and family planning and access to legal, safe abortion.” -Hillary Clinton

https://brightdrops.com/hillary-clinton-quotes

Lisa~

[LisaM]

18. Hope you're hanging in there, sheshe

Seattle is a very strange place to be right now. I'm doing some WFH and some in-office, and my office is virtually deserted. I'm trying to be very aware about social distancing, and I'm in my own office, but it's very strange.

[sheshe2]

26. Geez.

Seattle, huh.

Stay safe my dear. Rocky road ahead.

[NurseJackie]

7. After his recent display or rudeness and dismissiveness... do you blame us?

[Thekaspervote]

8. sanders totally lost me after his behavior and treatment of HRC

This is just one more example of his terrible behavior, especially towards women.

I will be so glad when the Democratic Party, my party is finally “our revolution” free!

[NurseJackie]

12. ...

[uponit7771]

46. wow

[smirkymonkey]

49. Ugh! That just infuriated me when I saw it originally!

I am so glad she pushed his arm back, but just look at how he reacts. What an asshole!

[Hiawatha Pete]

45. Back in 2016

Samantha Bee did a funny bit about his finger wagging at Hillary. In it, HRC orders a drone strike against Bernie's finger...

Personally I've nothing against him being labelled a socialist which isn't the dirty word on this side of the border that it is in the U.S., but Bernie dug his own hole in other ways -this being yet another example.

Getting out the vote, including the support of women, and beating Trump is job 1. IMHO.

Best of luck to Mr Biden.

[LisaM]

10. Ugh, so dismissive.

That "now is not the time" crap. I hate that!

[NurseJackie]

13. It was condescending and dismissive.

It would have only been worse if he had said "missy" or "little lady" at the end. (Thank goodness he didn't. But I could easily imagine him doing it.)

[Rilgin]

27. Yes after a debate on a crowded stage is the perfect time for a deep heart to heart talk.

He said that they could do it later but he did not want to do it then. Do you really think its a good time to discuss issues between people on a crowded stage in the middle of other people milling around after participating in a debate. Switch the situation. If Bernie had insisted that she respond at just that moment to something he wanted to talk about and she had said the same thing what would your response be? For gods sake, he did not approach her. He did not say they should not talk about what was bothering her.

He did say they could do it later but that he did not want to do it at that very moment -- 5 minutes after a debate while people were milling around congratulating people and saying hello. This is a ridiculous thing to be upset about. She approached him not Bernie approaching Liz. Do you not think that everyone, male and female, have the right to say, this is not a good time for a deep conversation?

[Aquaria]

39. Good grief

What won't you justify or rationalize from this known sexist? He's repeatedly treated women and their issues with condescension and dismissiveness in all kinds of fora, rushed and not. That was not anything new for him--it was a pattern that plays out over and over again for those who don't bury their heads in the sand about it.

One instance could be excused; but multiple examples of it are a warning of an irredeemable sexist. And he has blown off or demeaned women and women's issues on multiple occasions. For instance, all those times when he has harped on how the Democrats need to stop focusing on "identity politics," which has never been anything but a code from clueless white men with too much unearned privilege telling women and minorities that the issues they care about aren't important. Or, almost as bad, for the dumb women and minorities to sit down and be quiet while the white bois decide what's best for them.

Braying about identity politics ( and "political correctness" ) is always a silencing tactic, and it's sexist to silence women (and racist with minorities) when they're speaking out about what issues matter to them.

[Rilgin]

40. So post and use a different one. This thread is from a debate stage not a great place to talk.

I take it that you personally know him so can declare that he is known sexist. Does he harass everyone in his office. Does he write negatives about other people and only women? What exactly makes him a "known sexist". Is it just that he ran against Hillary that obviously makes him a sexist.

BTW, I dd not reference anything about sex or identity politics. I just said that people of all genders should be free to tell anyone that they do not want to talk about something at a given time. This should be self evident and not argumentative. Its hard to believe you would find offense from that statement.

[sheshe2]

15. That finger. nt

[NurseJackie]

16. That hand in the face...

[sheshe2]

17. Ugh!

[Cha]

23. Damn..

[Cha]

22. Excellent reminder.. seems like this went down

the rabbit hole but it didn't.

I contend this is a big party of the reason Elizabeth did NOT endorse BS.

[NurseJackie]

24. So disrespectful and dismissive.

Then while everyone else is talking, he sulks off stage.

[Cha]

25. Karma can be

so devastating at times.

[aikoaiko]

55. Bernie was right to wait until they were off the stage and not recorded to talk about the issue.

"Let's not do it right now" was a reasonable response.

[NurseJackie]

57. It was implicit sexism and paternalism.

"Let's not do it right now" was a reasonable response.

Compared to what?

Fact of the matter is this: He was being dismissive. He couldn't even muster the courage to hear her out or offer an apology, or even to offer some half-hearted apology like "I think we're both to blame" or "we both misunderstood each other" or anything at all... but instead he cut her off and shut her out and walked away in anger.

It's not leadership to tell someone to essentially "shut up" or that it's "my way or the highway" or "hold your horses there little lady, I'll talk to you when *I'M* good'n darn ready to".

[aikoaiko]

59. They were on stage and recorded. Is that really the time to for a serious personal discussion?

[NurseJackie]

60. It was the perfect time for an apology. He couldn't even do that.

Instead we get the dismissive "hold your horses, little lady" attitude and the "you're not worth my time... here, look at my backside". So rude! So disrespectful.

[Sunlei]

61. That was reasonable & smart. Wasn't it something to see Amy tear-up Bloomburg live?

That behavior during a debate while exciting to watch leaves a scar.

[marble falls]

62. Because after all, women should understand they need to wait, right?

[aikoaiko]

63. Not at all. But it does take two to have a conversation.

[marble falls]

64. Bingo! And Bernie did not want to talk to a woman at that point.

[NCProgressive]

11. Boom!!! K&R

[Kashkakat v.2.0]

20. Oh I dunno. Woman here - I think its more like women are more into collaborating, coalition buildin

and pulling together in unity, and unfortunately some of ya'll interpret that as centrist or moderate. So when Amy and Liz and Pete pulled out, where do we go?

Whether deserved or not, Bernie and Bros for better or worse havethe reputation of being intolerant and "my way or the highway" and not into collaboration or compromise.

I would not characterize that as "aversion" to Sanders. I like him a lot and actually agree with many or most of his positions. But at this point in time, theres a lot of other criteria Im needing to apply in my choosing who to vote for.

Making a choice in voting is not necessarily "aversion" to the other person. Who writes this stuff and why are they so intent on creating wedges and divisions between us Dem voters????????????

In November I will of course be voting out of AVERSION to one of the candidates. But not in the Dem primary.

[Skittles]

28. Bernie just plain creeps me out

I'm not enthusiastic about Joe either but will be supporting him.

[IronLionZion]

29. They could have had similar policies with better demeanor and less arm waving

if people had supported Liz Warren.

I remember women liked Obama a lot. Biden is probably the next best option.

[yaesu]

31. I happen to know a 20 something young lady who would seriously disagree with that. nt

[Aquaria]

33. Anecdote is not data.

Really.

[Rilgin]

36. There is no consistency in these attacks, They are just attacks.

This occurred 5 minutes after a debate on a crowded stage which not everyone thinks might be the best place for a heart to heart talk.
Liz Warren obviously had something she was upset about. Bernie did not approach her, he was approached. And he did not dismiss her, he said that he was willing to talk, he just did not want to do it then on a debate stage. All people, male and female, should be accorded the opportunity to tell someone that a particular time is not great to get into something.

With regard to finger pointing, there is absolute no consistency. Below is a link to an image of Joe with a finger in a woman's face and an expression of anger on his face. All that is needed if you don't want to follow the link is google biden finger point. People have those moments. The only thing that is problematic is that evidently it disqualifies Bernie and makes all women hate him but Joe is loveable and calm and never conflicts with women and all women love him. EXTREME SARCASM IMPLIED. Yes people conflict but making a big thing about Bernie responding to an attack (regardless of whether its valid or needs to be discussed and regardless of Elizabeth's hurt) by saying he did not want to get into it then at that very moment should be allowed and not another basis for attack.

&exph=496&expw=996&q=biden+finger+point&selectedindex=0&ajaxhist=0&vt=0&eim=1,2,6

Joe had a good speech and looked good today. It would be refreshing if the choir that posts on these threads posted nice stuff about their preferred candidate rather than attack Bernie day after day sometimes having to stretch to unimaginable lengths to find something to be outraged on..

[Aquaria]

42. Oh for crying out loud

It's not this one instance. It's an abundance of them, in all kinds of fora, where he dismisses and demeans women and their issues. He has a history of it, and only the most willfully obtuse refuse to examine that fact.

Do I need to provide the numerous examples of him trotting out his stupid "identity politics" sniveling that is nothing more than telling women and minorities to sit down and shut up and let the white bois decide what issues can matter when? Because that's all the stupid bigoted "identity politics" whining has ever been about.

Who the hell is that over-privileged poser to decide what issues matter to me, or how to address them? Who the hell is he to tell me that the issues I care about have to take a backseat to his almighty holy grail of economic justice (for white bois), which does a grand total of zero to address issues that matter to me, like reproductive rights, sexism in the workplace, rape culture, or whatever else I want to focus on that isn't on his stupid "economic justice (for white bois)" agenda?

Unlike that hoary schemdrik, I can focus on multiple issues at one time, and see how they all feed into each other--the economic and the issues that matter to me, and that it's downright stupid to think that there's a one-size-fits-all means to address it all. And yet that foolish old curmudgeon thinks everything can be shoehorned into his idiotic holy grail, and then it will be rainbows and unicorn farts for all!

What fucking bullshit.

Maybe you have such a privileged and entitled life that all that matters to you is economic justice (for white bois), but some of us out here have a whole hell of a lot of other issues we want addressed that are far more important to us, because they are even more constant threats to our liberty and our right to self-determination than filthy lucre.

[Rilgin]

44. A little off the thread but enjoy your righteous wrath

I don't know I just responded to someone posting something about finger pointing and a debate stage interaction. You seem to think that Bernie is the worst sexist in the world and that all he does is dismiss issues important to women. I realize he is pro-life, against the ERA, anti birth control, explicitly made sure his M4A bill will not pay for birth control as the only exception, forces his wife and campaign workers to wear Burqas and only votes with republicans on every bill that might give women things they need (sarcasm of course) I am sorry that you think his whole world revolves around being a sexist but will challenge only one part since its your opinion. I will challenge that your view of Bernie is the same as every woman and man out there.

I hope you recognize that you don't speak for all women. I am male but have a wife and 2 daughters who might disagree with you. They do not speak for you as you seem to want to speak for them. However, they are women and do not feel the same as you. I also just hope when you want to attack him you use a better example then his response to being approached for a direct talk on a debate stage

[smirkymonkey]

50. +1000

[betsuni]

52. I love you.

[MrsCoffee]

56. K&R this post.

[zackymilly]

37. Does Jane know Bernie's been asking other women out? n/t

[KT2000]

38. And - he comes across as a complainer

women have enough experience with complainers as if they are expected to fix it.

[Cozmo]

41. Uh yeah, you think?

His pompous demeanor is offensive to everyone.

[Tarheel_Dem]

47. I think Sanders thought because he has some inexplicable attraction for younger people that he...

could reassemble the Obama Coalition. I knew that wouldn't happen, just as I knew it in 2016.

[betsuni]

51. K&R

[boston bean]

53. Hmmmm mmmmm

https://upload.democraticunderground.com/1287655401

[betsuni]

54. No matter how many times I'm told I'm stupid ...

Fuck them.