If You Are Obese And Don't Even Try To Eat Healthy Why Should I Have To Pay For Your Medical Care?

[scottie55]

This discussion thread was locked as off-topic by w0nderer (a host of the Working Poor group).

I'm serious. Why should I be expected to pay to take care of someone who won't take care of themselves?

[Buzz Clik]

1. Why have you targeted the obese?

Smokers, drug users, base jumpers....

[peace13]

18. I want to say that this OP is a prime example of bullying.

The jury thinks that we can handle it out here and so I will. Comments like this are hateful and not helpful. Your comment can cause a person with body issues to back slide. The damage you do will be unseen and un felt by you because bullies never feel it. Suffice it to say that the system is taking care of the problem and you and your perfect self do not need to worry. If you are overweight your insurance company will be contacting you to encourage you to talk to a stranger on the phone about your issues. You will love it because like this place you will be hidden and faceless and can say whatever you please.

I would like to add that you started this to get a reaction and a fight. You need a friend, you need someone to love you and you have no idea how to make it happen. Why don't you start there on your improvement list instead of hurting others.

[scottie55]

41. Bullying? Really?

I just want an answer.

Why should I pay for the health care of people who eat 5,000 to 10,000 calories a day and wouldn't even consider exercising?

Please answer.

(other groups too I might add)

http://www.fairfoodnetwork.org/connect/blog/obesity-and-rising-cost-healthcare-america

"If obesity rates keep growing, costs associated with obesity will become too large for federal healthcare systems to cover."

[packman]

95. Don't forget the idiot motorcyclist not wearing helmets

or the asshats refusing to belt up in the car.

[Buzz Clik]

100. ... or people who don't bundle up when it's cold.

[sharp_stick]

2. So exactly which groups other than this

should be monitored so that you don't have to help them out? Smokers, assholes without helmets on motorcycles, those without seatbelts. People living in houses with lead paint.

Personally I'd like to take the people that use the moronic "don't want to pay for someone else" argument and ship them off to a fucking island where their little Libertarian dreams come true.

[scottie55]

45. We Are All Libertarians To A Point

I believe in responsibility 100% and paying for externalities up front.

Sugar = taxed not subsidized

Fat = taxed

Cigarettes = taxed to pay for smoker health care 100%

http://www.livescience.com/8848-true-cost-smoking-150-pack.html

These guys say a pack costs $150.

[hollysmom]

3. well the attitude could be a medical issue as well

as someone who is over weight now, it sort fo creeped up on me after I retired, and having an injury sidelined me for much of the year and instead of losing weight I gained it with eating less because I am moving less. Wanted to join a gym but my doctor vetoed it until I can pass tests, but I can't pass tests because I have a condition that does not allow me to lie long enough to take the test......... I feel like I am in health hell. So I am going to go mow my lawn, maybe that will help and eat another salad and hope I don't run out of breath or have a heart attack.
So glad to know you are so understanding. Why should I pay for your what ever if you get ill? YOU probably caused it your self.

[Kip Humphrey]

4. Because greed and selfishness are not good things. I'm serious, with your point of view, you should

consider returning to your republicon roots - either that or take some remedial lessons in compassion and liberal progressivism.

[wendylaroux]

12. Yup,exactly. nt

[RufusTFirefly]

54. +1

This is not a question that a Democrat would ask. At least not in the past.

That said, a Democrat would not oppose free public universities because she thinks Donald Trump's kids should have to pay to go to college.

[CompanyFirstSergeant]

5. No, but you...

...should get a discount for not engaging in a series of high risk lifestyles such as:

Being severely (not slightly) obese, smoking, drinking, DWI, having a violent arrest record, frequent injuries due to high-risk sports, etc.

Similar to car insurance.

BTW you will be flamed for this post. Unfairly, I may add.

[scottie55]

29. Thank You

I just want to have the conversation about responsibility.

Smokers, heavy drinkers, daredevils should pony up too I might add.

People who live healthy should get a huge discount on their healthcare, and the people who don't should have to pay up front for all the fat, sugar, and other slime they can't live without massive quantities.

I just want "justification" for my having to pay (around 1/3 of my income in taxes) for someone with a government supplied scooter because they are too fat to walk, when I am broke as hell.

Ever see Wall-E?

And yes you can eat salad, beans, vegetables, and fruit instead of a billion calories of slime if you really try.

[CompanyFirstSergeant]

33. Good food

is not expensive.

I can feed a family of 5 on a $9 pack of chicken breast (cooked in olive oil) and a $5 bowl of salad.

Same family on takeout costs $40

[catnhatnh]

50. Hmmm

So $14 per meal X 3 meals per day X 31 days per month = $1,302. That of course just assumes olive oil, a stove, a saute pan, a refrigerator, and assorted salad dressings...and so much more.

[CompanyFirstSergeant]

52. You still have to cook.....

Last edited Wed May 11, 2016, 04:24 PM - Edit history (1)

No matter what the food.

Unless you get takeout, which is off the charts price-wise.

BTW 1,300/month is an incredibly modest food budget for a family of 5

I see many people load up carts with crappy food that's not even really food.

They usually do not look very healthy.

EDIT: 1,300 is on the high side. More like 1,000 a month is a reasonable budget. Including all groceries, cleaning products, hygiene products, etc.

[catnhatnh]

61. Funny you should mention $1300

Because that is actually just about every cent made by a 40 hr per week worker at minimum wage ($1305=4.5 weeks pay) leaving them almost exactly nothing left to pay for a house in which to prepare this moderately budgeted diet.

[CompanyFirstSergeant]

64. Crappy food...

costs more.

Really, it does.

[catnhatnh]

67. You are in the working poor group

I assure you most regulars here don't think that over $1000 a month for food is modest.

[My Good Babushka]

74. 1300 a month!?

I keep it to 100-120 a week for a family of four.
I'd like to raid your fridge!

[CompanyFirstSergeant]

76. Those were the numbers

A poster above gave to work with.

They were figuring $13 a meal, but I can do $20/day or less for 3 healthy meals/day times 5 people

5 to 6 hundred a month.

7K/year on food max. - that's not bad for 5 people.

[k8conant]

80. When we still had 4 our monthly grocery total was about $500

and why buy chicken breasts when thighs are better and much cheaper and squid is best?
BTW, that $500 includes Delmonico steak at least once a week.

[Mopar151]

84. Daredevils? This completely ignoresfacts, in favor of prejudice

Prejucice being superior to fact, as it requires much less thinking.

[niyad]

6. wow, are you certain you are on the correct board? or did you forget the sarcasm thingy?

or, how about--if you are a freaking, woman-hating misogynist warmongering asshole, why should I have to pay your senatorial salary?

shall I go on?

[femmocrat]

7. Healthy foods are more expensive and difficult to find in poor neighborhoods.

Which is why many poor people resort to eating cheaper, high-caloric and readily available foods.
Read and learn: http://frac.org/initiatives/hunger-and-obesity/why-are-low-income-and-food-insecure-people-vulnerable-to-obesity/

[scottie55]

30. Agreed 100%. Food Deserts They Are Called

Fruits, vegetables, and greens should be free nationwide, and subsidized by taxes on sugar, flour, fat, and fast unhealthy food.

Problem solved.

Free good stuff, expensive poison.

[catnhatnh]

65. No, no

Because then we would be paying for healthy foods for Donald Trump's children. I mean they told us that's why my kids can't have free college.

[No Vested Interest]

92. Whenever I see "problem solved" posted online,

it's usually following a simplistic RW post.
Unfortunate.

[LisaM]

8. Because obesity is not a choice and because our food system is set up

so that a lot of the foods that cheaply feed a family aren't always the best nutritional choices. This was brought home sharply to me the other day when I bought basil in an organic grocery store that was $10 a bag. I decided to buy it anyway, but when I left the store I did give a thought to people who only had $10 a week for groceries total and what they could buy with it if they had a couple of kids. Paying that much for organic basic has basically haunted me for a whole week.

I was reading an article about the "Biggest Loser" (a fat-shaming show if there ever was one), and how the people cannot keep the weight off because at some point their own bodies turn against them. They're exercising like crazy, eating under 1000 calories per day, and still gaining weight back.

Obesity is a very complicated issue (as are other things that pose chronic health problems) and I for one don't want to play judge and jury to the people suffering from it.

[Major Nikon]

22. Everyone has a choice about what they put in their mouth

Certainly people aren't created equal in terms of propensity for weight gain, but everyone still has a choice unless they are bedridden and are being force fed.

Nobody exercises like crazy, eats under 1000 calories per day, and gains weight. It's physically impossible. Even sedentary people will burn 1600-2600 calories per day. Moderate exercise for 1 hour burns around 400-900 calories. So even at the low end of that scale which couldn't really be considered exercising like crazy, a person will burn at least 2,000 calories per day. The more you weigh, the more calories you will burn.

[LisaM]

66. Not if your body is fighting you on it.

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/05/02/health/biggest-loser-weight-loss.html?_r=0

[Major Nikon]

91. I'm not surprised it turned out that way

That show doesn't really help people who need to lose weight and keep it off. Their methods encourage taking the greatest amount of weight off in the shortest time and people tend to just fall back into their previous habits.

[LisaM]

96. Yes, with the added bonus of their body fighting against the drastic weight loss.

I remember a few years ago one of the contestants pointed out that there was a reason they never had a reunion, and now this article. I hated that show anyway. I watched it once and was appalled.

[Major Nikon]

98. There's a good reason for that

The problem with losing too much weight too fast is you also lose a significant amount of muscle mass along with the fat. Muscle mass burns more calories than fat even while resting so your overall metabolism suffers.

Those people didn't put on all that weight overnight and neither should they try to lose it overnight. The best approach is to maintain a healthy lifestyle and lose the weight gradually, and then maintain that lifestyle after the weight is gone. That approach just doesn't make for good reality TV.

[mercuryblues]

73. That is not what

new studies are finding.

It has to do with resting metabolism, which determines how many calories a person burns when at rest. When the show began, the contestants, though hugely overweight, had normal metabolisms for their size, meaning they were burning a normal number of calories for people of their weight. When it ended, their metabolisms had slowed radically and their bodies were not burning enough calories to maintain their thinner sizes.

Researchers knew that just about anyone who deliberately loses weight — even if they start at a normal weight or even underweight — will have a slower metabolism when the diet ends. So they were not surprised to see that “The Biggest Loser” contestants had slow metabolisms when the show ended.

What shocked the researchers was what happened next: As the years went by and the numbers on the scale climbed, the contestants’ metabolisms did not recover. They became even slower, and the pounds kept piling on. It was as if their bodies were intensifying their effort to pull the contestants back to their original weight.

Mr. Cahill was one of the worst off. As he regained more than 100 pounds, his metabolism slowed so much that, just to maintain his current weight of 295 pounds, he now has to eat 800 calories a day less than a typical man his size. Anything more turns to fat.

snip

Slower metabolisms were not the only reason the contestants regained weight, though. They constantly battled hunger, cravings and binges. The investigators found at least one reason: plummeting levels of leptin. The contestants started out with normal levels of leptin. By the season’s finale, they had almost no leptin at all, which would have made them ravenous all the time. As their weight returned, their leptin levels drifted up again, but only to about half of what they had been when the season began, the researchers found, thus helping to explain their urges to eat.


http://www.nytimes.com/2016/05/02/health/biggest-loser-weight-loss.html?_r=0

[scottie55]

83. He Wasn't On This Diet / Eating Healthy Nutrient Per Calorie

Eat To Live

http://www.webmd.com/diet/a-z/eat-to-live-diet-review

[mercuryblues]

87. I'm guessing

you didn't read the article. The weight loss resulted in their metabolism and lipids going way down.
They are not gaining the weight back from eating the wrong foods, they are gaining the weight back even cutting down their calorie intake and increasing exercise. To add insult to injury their lipids, which controls hunger, have also decreased.
Eating less, exercise more, and fighting hunger.

But hey, let's throw people to the wolves because you are perfect. why should my insurance dollars pay for someone who breaks their legs falling down their stairs? I don't have stairs, why should I have to pay for people purposely having stairs in their homes? Why should my brother have to pay taxes for education, he doesn't have any kids. He have to subsidize childhood vaccinations either. Why should I be forced to help pay for infertility treatments for strangers, I have kids.

We do these things because they are the right thing to do. Because if we don't as a society we would fail. Everyone for themselves would lead to chaos.

[Ohioblue22]

103. He pays for educating kids because one day he will need an educated kid to replace a

Valve in his heart or remove an anyerisum from his brain or do his taxes , fix his car . Eventually someone's educated kid will need to wipe his ass because he can no longer do it

[mercuryblues]

107. I'm guessing

my whole post

[Ohioblue22]

108. I was just making a point on that one example otherwise I agree with you..... nt

[mercuryblues]

112. sorry

I am perplexed why people think that they are so perfect they have the right to beat down on others.

[Major Nikon]

93. Nothing you posted contradicts what I wrote

[scottie55]

57. Obesity Is A Choice In Almost Every Case

We choose what we put in our mouths, and how much we exercise for almost all of us.

[Major Nikon]

94. Claiming otherwise is ridiculous and irresponsible

Telling people they are powerless over their weight and overall health just encourages people to give up.

[Ed Suspicious]

102. You have no fucking g idea. Take a walk in any 300 pounders shoes.

And stop acting like a prick.

[Person 2713]

9. I have to admit but would never say it (OP)or fight against it but this yes and cigs and liqour too

I understand there yes can be genetic or medication issues with obesity though
Cigs and booze not so much
Again I would never protest against any of it and I do feel sorry for all who become ill.

[peace13]

10. wow. You might want to post your picture so that we can make sure we want to pay for your premiums.

Your comment is too disgusting for words!

[scscholar]

11. Healthy people often run or do sports...

which is a very dangerous thing to do. All but two of the people I went to high school with that have died, did so from physical activity. Two were hit by cars while jogging, another had a heart attack, two while riding a bike to work here in Seattle, one from that football garbage, another from a crushed chest from lifting weights, three drowned, one raped and beaten to death while jogging, another fell while rock climbing, and at least two that died while hiking. Healthy people don't make safe choices.

[Major Nikon]

31. That's kind of like saying taking a bath is dangerous because people drown in bathtubs

Running and doing sports isn't dangerous, unlike a sedentary lifestyle.

[silvershadow]

13. You don't pay for anything. You pay for taxes. You don't actually get to personally

decide where they go, except through your 3 Congressional reps- 2 Senators and one representative.

As to your abhorrent premise, no comment.

[brewens]

68. I'd rather stop paying to send people out to get blown up for starters. That would cover

a lot of the poor health decisions.

[silvershadow]

70. Well we agree on the first part, but the second part sounds like FR. ? nt

[Major Nikon]

14. Results...

On Wed May 11, 2016, 12:54 PM an alert was sent on the following post:

If You Are Obese And Don't Even Try To Eat Healthy Why Should I Have To Pay For Your Medical Care?
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1284923

REASON FOR ALERT

This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.

ALERTER'S COMMENTS

Over the top. Hate filled speech.

You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Wed May 11, 2016, 12:58 PM, and the Jury voted 2-5 to LEAVE IT.

Juror #1 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: What is this, Free Republic?
Juror #2 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #3 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: Fuck Ron Paul
Juror #4 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: I don't think it deserves a hide. The response to this OP are taking care of this issue very well and the thread will sink like a stone.
Juror #5 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #6 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #7 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given

[peace13]

19. DU now condones hate speech!

This place just brings out the lowest at times.

[Autumn]

15. Wow.

[wendylaroux]

16. Now why would a person not care about themselves? hmmm...

[uppityperson]

17. Aside from the nastiness, how does this in any way fit the SOP for this group?

If You Are Obese And Don't Even Try To Eat Healthy Why Should I Have To Pay For Your Medical Care?

I'm serious. Why should I be expected to pay to take care of someone who won't take care of themselves?

In NO way meets this SOP

Working Poor (Group): About This Group
Statement of Purpose

This is a safe haven designed for Working Poor and people interested in Working Poor, but supportive of us only. Criticism of Working Poor or of their lives and jobs are not permitted in this room. If you wish to criticize Working Poor there is always GD.

[peace13]

20. Agree! This OP is an attack and its placement is no accident!

[sharp_stick]

21. It should have been hidden based on that alone

At least a host should lock it.

[scottie55]

34. I Am Working Poor And Pay Huge Taxes

I just went to the store and saw 3 people there, 2 in scooters and they were all over 300 lbs and loading up on crap I wouldn't feed my worst enemy with.

I (probably) paid for their scooters, and their "safety net" simply because they can't stop eating garbage and exercising.

It just makes me sick.

I do care about them by the way. They shouldn't have their 5,000 calorie a day, zero exercise lifestyle subsidized.

By the way, I am obese, and work extremely hard to lose weight. I know the struggle.

In America we eat poison. Ever see a TV ad? Go to (fill in the blank) restaurant and get your meat covered with cheese, surrounded by gravy, and dessert thrown in all for a cheeeep price. Pig out. 3,000 calories in one sitting!

We're so screwed.

[My Good Babushka]

72. If it makes you feel any better

I'm pretty sure they don't have much healthcare. No one I know has really great healthcare. Working people end up in crowded clinics, lucky to see a nurse, or maybe a doctor that doesn't remember their name or what they're there for. If people had great healthcare, they would be under the care of a nutritionist, and maybe not be obese and eating themselves to death.

[yellowcanine]

23. "And Don't Even Try To Eat Healthy" Stereotype much?

It is just a bit more complicated than that.

[LiberalArkie]

24. I also resent paying for people who live in the country, or drive cars when they might get hurt

or live in buildings that might catch fire and require fireman to to out the fire. Or how about those people who carry credit cards, should I be expected to pay for police to stop people from mugging them. Why should I have to pay for rescue people to save some mountain climber or someone water skiing and gets hurt. Why should I pay for people to help people who get hurt hunting or riding a motorcycle without a helmet.

Why or why should I have to pay to help others in a civilized society?

[ret5hd]

25. Your disgust for all but the "beautiful people" is duly noted.

Please note my disgust for you.

[procon]

26. Were you cheering at that Republican debate where they wanted the uninsured to die?

Why would anyone consider callous Republican dogma is an appropriate goal for Democrats? Seriously, this Game of Thrones mindset is just cringeworthy.

No doubt you lead a perfect life and have the privileged luxury of never have to make poor choices. So you're going to withhold healthcare because someone has a poor diet? How condescending of you. That means every poor family who can't afford the fresh ingredients of a healthy diet because their living conditions and food dollars doesn't allow for choices beyond boxed mac & cheese and canned soup.

[scottie55]

35. You Assume Too Much

Their healthcare should be paid for by tax on the poison we call food (The American Diet).

http://www.fairfoodnetwork.org/connect/blog/obesity-and-rising-cost-healthcare-america

"If obesity rates keep growing, costs associated with obesity will become too large for federal healthcare systems to cover."

I am not being "mean", I am simply pointing out reality.

[procon]

63. OK, so after getting chewed out by DUers, now you claim you're really not "mean"?

Puhleeze... you rightfully deserved to get smacked down for your arrogance in being so self centered and parsimonious that you can't even grasp the rudimentary human social contract that civilized societies will look after the welfare of even the least among us. Not that the US is paragon of virtue in this regard, but the paltry efforts that are in place at least minimizes the risk that you will have to step around the lifeless bodies of the uninsured as you do your morning jog.

Lifestyle choices are complex issues, not a simple, monolithic flaw that can be easily swept away with personal willpower. So don't start adding caveats after the fact in an effort to atone for your snobbish attitude toward those less fortunate. If you are so concerned on getting people healthy, then start by supporting programs that teach, train, and employ people so they have a path to escape poverty. Maybe then, they with have the means to improve their lifestyle so you can criticize them for something else.

[liberal N proud]

27. Some people are obese due to a medical problem

And even if they did try, nothing would change.

But then again, just let them die, right?

[whatthehey]

28. If you run or bike when you don't have to and get injured, why should I pay for yours?

[scottie55]

36. Running Is Hard On My Body and Bicycles Are Dangerous If You have To Be On Streets

I walk, and go to a gym, and heat healthy.

Losing weight for now, but it is a struggle.

[Major Nikon]

43. Bicycles aren't dangerous on the streets

At least no more so than motorcycles, and arguably less so. Knowing what you are doing mitigates those risks considerably. Most bicycle accidents are with children who are set free on the roads with no education on what constitutes safe riding.

[LastLiberal in PalmSprings]

71. Florida is the most dangerous state to ride a bicycle

with 5.7 fatal traffic accidents per million people. link

This is old (2012) information, but nationwide 722 bicyclists were killed in traffic accidents. Not zero, but not a statistically significant number -- unless you're one of those people, of course.

[Major Nikon]

89. Putting that number in perspective...

If you filter out however many of those were either children or people who were drunk, you wind up with a much lower number. Quite a few of those that are left are people who weren't wearing helmets. Many will be those who were riding on sidewalks or were otherwise where they shouldn't have been. Just using basic common sense will mitigate your risk significantly as will applying safe riding habits and knowing where the hazards are.

[whatthehey]

47. I presume you then engage in absolutely zero risk enhancing behavior?

Because singling out one risk just begs for others to be included. Better have none at all if you want to open that can of worms, and recall that even if you do, injury and disease can strike anyone at any time. Sure you have zero genetic markers I'm paying for while you're at it?

Yes the zeal of the convert is an impetuous temptation, we get it, but hospitals are full of skinny folks.

[Agnosticsherbet]

32. If people are not going to work to educate themselves, why should I pay for their education.

After all, ignorance is dirt cheap. Information should cost whatever the market can bear for the benefit of those who have it, right?

We do it because, as a society, we are better off when our fellow citizens are educated.

We share the costs of health care because a healthy and educated citizenry makes all our lives better, and it is the right thing to do.

[scottie55]

38. Paying For Someone To Eat Themselves To Death

Is not the right thing to do.

Face it.

I never said I wouldn't help them.

Their healthcare should be paid for by taxing the garbage they eat, not by us struggling working stiffs.

[Agnosticsherbet]

46. You are not paying for someone to eat themselves to death. You are helping pay for everyone's health

care.

Your small share goes to the poor who can not afford to go to a Docter at all and others.

The obesity issue is only one small part of health care. The idea that we should discriminate against people who are obese is no different that discriminating because they are poor, uneducated, black, Hispanic, female, LGTBQ or any other false method of separating those who deserve health care from those who do not because some segment of society doesn't like how they look or their lifestyle or their ancestry.

[abelenkpe]

37. cool republican attitude

think you're lost. And democrats on this board agreeing with you are lost too.

[scottie55]

39. Why Am I Targeting The Obese?

"If obesity rates keep growing, costs associated with obesity will become too large for federal healthcare systems to cover."

http://www.fairfoodnetwork.org/connect/blog/obesity-and-rising-cost-healthcare-america

Subsidizing someone's 5,000 to 10,000 calorie a day diet isn't the answer.

[Boldine]

51. If you are out to save your money you should encourage

people to eat, drink, drug-take, etc. because that will lead to shorter lifespans and will overall save you your precious pennies. / Heavy Snark.

[whatthehey]

56. Yah. Unbiased source there

If cost containment is genuinely your concern, a far greater target would be end of life care. If we stopped massively expensive futile efforts to grant grandma a few more months or weeks or days of an agonizing helpless duration (not worth calling life) and instead gave far more attention to cheap palliative care and destigmatized voluntary euthanasia, we could save 1/3 of all medical costs. We grant dogs the dignity and respite of a peaceful end when their lives are no longer worth living. We torture our elderly and terminally sick by refusing them $5 worth of morphine lest they spend their last few days as addicts while spending six figures on operations with a 7% chance of success and thousands of dollars a night for a hospice bed that makes them less comfortable in mind and body than being at home.

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-care-costs-idUSTRE69C3KY20101014

[floriduck]

40. The Art of the Closed Mind. Anyone can learn it. Few are foolish enough to admit it.

[Boldine]

42. Why stop at obesity?

How about being several pounds overweight, how about those in comas, those who are actively dying, etc., etc.? How far are you willing to go on your slippery slope?

Your post is (a) ignorant and (b) disgusting. Not everyone who is obese is unhealthy and not everyone who is unhealthy is obese.

Yes there will always be a small %age who do what others consider bad for their health - whether it be smoking, drinking, drugs, eating badly - but in the big scheme of things so what, if we can help people then we help people to receive the care they need.

As for diet - you need to read more and understand that for some eating healthy all the time would be very expensive and depending where they live nigh on impossible.

[zalinda]

44. Okay, let's take this step by step

First of all, not everyone wins the genetic lottery. I am from Slavic decent, I am short and big boned. I could be almost skin and bones and still not look thin. I have no fat on my wrists and yet, a regular bracelet will be quite tight on my wrist. I am also predisposed to being overweight, it is a genetic survival mechanism. Those from countries that have feast or famine type climates do tend to put on the pounds a a survival mechanism.

Secondly, stress and the lack of sleep also contribute to weight gain. Hey, if you are worried about where you are going to get the money for rent, it might be a little stressful and you might lose sleep over it.

Thirdly, disease and medications are a factor. Five to 10 percent of women have PCOS which causes obesity. Antidepressants also cause weight gain, and they are pushed a lot by doctors. Birth control pills also can make you gain weight. If you have problems with body movement, you will also gain weight. Or your body got hurt in an accident which caused you to move less.

Fourth, environment plays a factor, the more chemicals in the environment the more weight you can gain. And, most chemical producing plants are put in poor neighborhoods. There is also the violence in a neighborhood which can cause a person to hide inside their house.

Fifth, is that carbohydrates are cheaper than fresh foods. Even in food pantries, they give out canned fruit, canned vegetable, carbohydrates (rice, pasta, cereal etc) and 2 cans of tuna fish, 1 jar of peanut butter for their protein for the entire month. Then you have the markets that are with walking distance that have very little choice in the foods that they sell. Let's also not mention that food companies also have figured out the balance of salt, sugar and carbs that will get people addicted to the food.

I could go on and on about all of the above, but I'll stop.

The thrust of your statement is that if people can't help themselves then why help them? Does that also apply to those who can't find a place to live, or a disabled person who can't feed themselves, or an older person who no longer can live alone, or a person who can't find a job, or a person who is injured, or a myriad of other possibilities that could present itself?

There is nothing that is black or white in this world when it comes to human beings. When it comes to bodies, the genetic lottery is something that no one can really control, you are either lucky or you're not.

Z

[scottie55]

48. I Have The Same "Genetic" Problem

And I am obese.

I still walk, eat healthy, work out, and do all I can, and am actually losing weight.

The people in the scooters I saw today have given up.

Paying to help them explode isn't helping them in any way.

I am just asking for justification for my tax dollars to go to people who gave up and want me to pay for their million dollar health care costs.

[Tobin S.]

59. You stated that you are poor above.

If that is the case, you aren't subsidizing anyone for anything. My wife made something like $12,000 last year. She paid less than $100 in federal income taxes. Social Security and Medicare? You will likely benefit far more from that than you contribute. Who is subsidizing who here? I'm overweight, but I'm not poor and I probably pay far more in taxes than you do, if you indeed fit the description of someone living in poverty. Chances are I'm subsidizing you on a much larger scale than you are those terrible fat people. I don't think that's fair. I think you need to find a better job. See where I'm going here?

[My Good Babushka]

62. Your government gives them tax dollars

to sate themselves with food as an anesthetic, because it doesn't give them education, or proper healthcare, or proper work opportunities, or anything much to hope for in the future.

[procon]

69. "Paying to help them explode..." ah... so this is just fat shaming.

I get it now, you don't like fat people. You don't want them to eat and you don't want anyone to assist them with healthcare. That's harsh dude, even for Republicans, that's just cold.

[zalinda]

88. Actually, I have recently found out

a lot of those people with scooters, have them because those are taking the place of a car. When you are poor, it's easier to get a scooter than a car. Fyi, if your car is worth a certain amount, you can lose your benefits, but you can own a scooter that is more expensive than the car that you allowed to have.

And, you may never know that the person you are angry at, may have mobility problems which caused them to become fat and they now have to use a scooter.

Z

[CompanyFirstSergeant]

49. "carbohydrates are cheaper than fresh foods."

Respectfully disagree.

The cheapest/healthiest meal I have found is chicken breast cooked in olive oil and a salad.

Family of 5 for less than $15

[zalinda]

85. Except that it doesn't stay with you

and you can't get it at the local store.

Store brand mac n cheese $.70 a box x 2
Store brand hot dogs $1 a package
Store brand green beans $.50 a can x 2

for a family of 5 $3.40


You have never lived poor.

Z

[CompanyFirstSergeant]

97. Chicken breast

$9.00 a pack - 2 nights - 4 people

Potatoes - $4.00 a bag - 2 nights - 4 people

Tomatoes - $2.50 a pack - 1 night - 4 people

That's 2.50 per person per meal

You can't beat that with anything else healthy

I can make an entire breakfast with $3.00 worth of eggs for everyone

Lunch is a $4.00 pack of ham with rye bread.

I'm at $5.00 per day per person.

Hot dogs will kill you - all kinds of fake additives. So will mac and cheese.

[mike_c]

53. because you will one day grow old, or sicken, or be injured...

...and those obese tax payers will pay to treat and cure your ass, too. That's how civilized societies work. Everyone needs health care sooner or later. If we all support one another, no one will be driven into poverty by the inevitable.

[My Good Babushka]

55. I agree that American diets are crap

and we should stop subsidizing bad agricultural practices that make garbage food so cheap. Maybe we should even have deep discounts for people with great health. I've never been overweight and I've always had low cholesterol and blood pressure, so I would love to cash in on that. But I disagree that we should take it out on people who become obese. Nutrition and food preparation is a neglected area of our public education. People think stopping off at a fast food place is a meal, because the media promotes it as an "easy dinner solution". Even our best grocery stores do not have very much variety and are mostly filled with preservative-laced and heavy salted, nearly ready meals, so that people who heat up a prepared food think that is "home cooking". I don't think we can even start from the premise that people "know better". I think home economics is an under-appreciated but very valuable skill. Schools stopped teaching things like that thinking anyone can do it, but it turns out, they can't.

[puffy socks]

58. You will pay for it anyway.

It will just be more expensive.
There is nothing more suited for a socialistic approach than health care.
Just because you lead a healthy life style and work hard does not mean you or a family member won't end up with cancer or some other debilitating illness or have a child born into a life of medical needs.
The hardest worker, the best athlete, the healthiest eater, makes no difference... all of us will need health care in some form sooner or later.
Getting a better system in place without causing too much pain for people in the process is going to be a challenge.

[brewens]

60. I have to say that almost every truely obese person I have ever been around really

does overeat habitually. For whatever reason, they really can't stop it or many of them would. I think we have to take everyone in a single payer system and do what we can to help them control their binge eating, smoking, drinking and whatever else causes poor health.

Those problems would not be the astronomical expense they are now if we had a better health care system in the first place. In some cases the government has been hand in hand with the sugar, tobacco, alcohol industries and their lobbyists promoting bad health practices. Some people are more susceptible to abusing those things.

[LastLiberal in PalmSprings]

75. Because cancer, some heart diseases, kidney failure and several other expensive diseases

aren't necessarily related to diet. These are thought to be hereditary, and there's no correlation between the two.

Plus you can be severely injured in an accident with a non-insured driver or a tree.

Insurance isn't bought because something will happen, it's bought because something might happen.

Or because your brother-in-law is an insurance agent...

I've had six non-elective surgeries to replace arthritic joints (shoulders, hips, knees) in the past two years that aren't related to my diet or sports -- the condition is hereditary in my family. I'm 67 and in good shape, and these procedures were considered abnormal because of my "young age." The medical bills from any one of these procedures would wipe out my savings, but my medical insurance paid nearly the whole thing (there were some copays for hospital, MRIs and other tests).

There was nothing wrong with me for the 20+ years I paid medical insurance premiums before this crap hit all at once. Just anecdotal, I know, but in my case paying for insurance I wasn't using ultimately paid off.

OTH, if you get seriously ill you can just use the emergency room and let everyone else pay for your bill if you don't have insurance. again.

[scottie55]

82. Wrong - It Is Almost All Related To Diet

Some mostly vegetarian parts of China there is next to zero cancer, and next to zero heart disease.

It's diet my friends.

http://nutritionstudies.org/doctor-inspired-by-the-china-study-for-his-cancer-patients/

We are being lied to, and killed by our "American Diet" every day.

I hope your arthritis gets better. I started getting arthritis is why I started eating a healthy diet (mostly) and gave up most of the garbage I have been gorging on for decades.

http://www.webmd.com/diet/a-z/eat-to-live-diet-review

If I stick to this diet, I have no inflammation, and no pain. When I cheat, it gets bad.

Hope you click on the link. It may help some.....

[Gomez163]

77. I'm sure you don't want to be paying for those with dementia.

After all, what do they do all day????


(That would include my 88 year old dad)

[ghostsinthemachine]

78. I've got a friend, that since HS

Has been working his way into full time govt assistance.never had a real job, never wanted one.

Now that his welfare insurance kids are grown He is fat as fuck, eats absolute shit, never excersised, never so much as walked for excersise. Now diabetic, had a partial foot cut off. He deliberately tries to stay as unhealthy as possible, deliberatley. Means more money and benefit for him. He goes to the hospital every year in October, just to get another diagnosis, one that will insure that the govt provide for him.
And provide they do. Food stamps, 1100 month cash aid, subsidized housing (3 bedrooms) and all his medical which now includes 30 hours a week in home care worker. He also gets all the latest crap, oxygen devices, sleep apnea you name it, the house is a collection of one use medical products. All bought with the taxpayers money.

Really pisses me off. So do a lot of things.

[My Good Babushka]

81. That sounds like a terrible life!

People envy the poor and sick in this country, and begrudge them any means of care and shelter, as if they are responsible for the rest of the lousy conditions the rest of us have to live with. But here is a clue: they aren't. They didn't bust unions and outsource jobs and craft the policy that squeezes the working class and heaps gifts upon the banking class. What they live on is nothing, just crumbs, and if you really wanted to, you can be disabled and go on welfare. I encourage you to do it if you think it's so great. If your life is barely better than a disabled person's on welfare, that's not the person on welfare's fault.

[zalinda]

86. Your friend is probably mentally ill

it could be depression. The way he is living is not normal.

Z

[ghostsinthemachine]

104. Lifestyle choice. Period

Hillbilly guy who wants the govt to paypay for everything while he grows weed and does meth.

[mooseprime]

79. Because, as is demonstrated by all of Europe, Japan, and others

when you socialize the risk across an entire population what everyone pays goes down. This principle underlies insurance in general. If I total my new car and the insurance pays out for a new one, your rates don't change because the pool of people who don't total their cars is so large. If I'm making something with expensive materials and mess one of them up, consider the difference in the relative cost of the loss if I'm only making 20 vs. 20,000. Huge numbers allow for economy of scale. Everybody wins.

[No Vested Interest]

90. Is it odd that there are no recs for this OP?

It's been posted over 4 hrs. now, with 87 or more responses and not one DUer has agreed enough to recommend it to other DUers?
Very unusual, sez I.

[scottie55]

99. I Was Thinking The Same Thing - Knowing......

The system can't support a population that is 75% overweight much longer.

But who am I to address REALITY.

[Ed Suspicious]

101. I bet you're the kind of guy that feels helpful fat-shamin the overwieght.

You're not helpful.

[mercuryblues]

105. It is absolutely

beyond disgusting that you not only posted this, but posted it in the working poor forum. Are you trying to say poor people are all overweight and make poor health decisions? It sure sounds like it to me.

I hope your sanctimonious ass never needs to have someone's foot surgically removed from it. I mean you have proven yourself to be a jerk, so why should my money subsidize your outward displays of ignorance and hate towards others.

Just remember this old Irish proverb. Many a man's mouth broke his nose.

[LaurenG]

106. That is a nasty stance. How are you going to know what people eat or why?

Since people who think like authoritarians usually have hypertension why should we cover their medical care. After all they are deliberately deciding to be selfish bastards which raises their bp. Hypothetically speaking.

[MFM008]

109. What about all the smokers?

My mother quit 20 years ago. She smokes for 40 years.
She now has heart failure and COPD.
a nice thin ex-smoker.

fat shaming?

[stopbush]

110. Biggest loser study: why is it so hard to keep weight off?

It's well known among obesity experts that when people lose weight, their resting metabolic rate slows, meaning they burn fewer calories while at rest. Their rate is often slower than it would be compared to other people of the same size who hadn't lost a lot of weight.

"The phenomenon is called 'metabolic adaptation' or 'adaptive thermogenesis,' and it acts to counter weight loss and is thought to contribute to weight regain," wrote the authors, researchers from the National Institute of Diabetes and Digestive and Kidney Diseases, part of the National Institutes of Health (NIH), in Bethesda, Maryland.

To learn more, using blood, urine and other tests, they calculated the resting metabolic rate and body composition changes in Season 8 contestants six years after the end of the weight loss competition. The study found that only one of the 14 contestants succeeded in maintaining their slimmer weight. The rest regained a significant amount of the weight lost during the competition, and their resting metabolic rates (RMR) remained unusually low.

In fact, the authors wrote, "Despite substantial weight regain in the 6 years following participation in 'The Biggest Loser,' RMR remained suppressed at the same average level as at the end of the weight loss competition." That meant that in order to avoid gaining weight, they would have to consume an average of 500 fewer calories per day than other people their size.


The researchers say this is the first study to evaluate people who've been obese and then lost weight through intensive diet and exercise over so many years. And obesity experts said it supports previous research and what they've seen in their patient populations -- that it's really hard for people who've been obese and then lose a lot of weight to maintain their lower weight, or to lose weight again after they've buoyed back up to a higher weight.


http://www.cbsnews.com/news/biggest-loser-study-why-staying-slim-is-so-hard/

[Scootaloo]

111. Same reason I am going to pay for your social security