Only a few things.

[merrily]

Last edited Sat Aug 1, 2015, 11:17 AM - Edit history (1)

I can list things I don't appreciate about Hillary. I know that no politician is perfect. I don't expect agreement with me on every issue. Those talking points are just silly.

But, there are three or four things that I do have real trouble overlooking. If anyone can disappear those things and the damage that flowed from them, I will delete my Bernie logo and replace it with Hillary's in a heartbeat.

1. She helped found the DLC and spread its New Democrat gospel, including to Europe. We know it has helped take our Party and our country to the right and we know what has flowed from that. Lord only knows what it did in Europe.

2. She not only voted for, but advocated for, the DLC/Progressive Policy Institute agenda of war in Iraq. And please don't tell me about the intel. She never even read the NIE. Beyond that, no Democrat I know believed Bushco and/or the media. Did you?

3. Her 2004 advocacy in the Senate for marriage as a sacred bond between a man and a woman.

http://www.c-span.org/video/?c4535174/hillary-clinton-gay-marriage-2004

4. The "racially tinged" campaign she ran against Obama, including throwing him under fucking McCain's bus on the 3 am phone call and that photo of him dressed in traditional African garb.

Sure, he was elected President, so we can say no damage really flowed from that. But, I bet it was painful for him. Moreover, everything isn't about Obama and only Obama. Many people of all hues are hurt by racism were, at the very least, not helped by that. The precedent set for future campaigns was horrific--and it was set at that level, not by a Republican, but by a Democrat.

That's it. Just four things. Reverse the damage from those things and I'll change logos, sign up at the Hillary website, donate and volunteer, no matter what else there is and no matter what else may be revealed in the coming months.

[Erich Bloodaxe BSN]

1. #3 was the reason I swore all the way back in 2008 I'd never vote for her.

And don't forget #4. 'Family' ties. A nightmare for the country if even the Democratic candidate supports Dominionists.

[merrily]

8. It's a hard thing to get past.

[merrily]

13. Note: What was #3 when EB replied in April is now #4.

So, EB's post is about Hillary's "racially tinged" 2008 primary campaign.

[Martin Eden]

2. Her vote for the IWR in October 2002, giving GW Bush authority to invade Iraq

I was here at DU. It was very clear to us at that time the Bush administration was hell bent on invading Iraq, and was engaged in a marketing campaign of deceit to sell the war to the American people. We knew about PNAC and the agenda for global military domination, and that the supposed "grave and gathering threat" posed by the debilitated country of Iraq was a false pretext.

If Hillary Clinton didn't know that, she was too incompetent to hold the office of US senator.

More likely she was on board with the agenda, or stuck her finger in the political winds of the time and decided it was better to be "tough" on national security.

All of which are inexcusable, and unforgivable in my book. Then more than ever, we desperately needed strong Democratic leaders to stand up, speak truth to power, and be champions of the people in opposing this fraudulent rush to a disastrous war that has cost us more than the $3 trillion that will be spent before it's over.

Hillary Clinton, John Kerry, Joe Biden, and other Dems (slightly less than half the total in House & Senate) who voted for the IWR forever lost my vote in Democratic primaries.

Hillary was a hawk then, and she's a hawk now. I do not trust her in matters of war, peace, and national security.

[merrily]

7. Thanks. Let's see...

Hillary and Bill were founding members of the DLC. Some say that the DLC was Bill's idea, but I don't know, one way or the other.

The first two full-time employees of the DLC were Al From and Will Marshall.

Marshal left the DLC to found the Progressive Policy Institute, although the two organizations remained closely tied until the DLC's corporate existence ended.

Both the DLC and the PPI were pro invading Iraq and Marshall signed the PNAC letter. Bill Clinton has to be one of the brightest, most knowledgeable politicians in the US, if not the world. I'm guessing Hillary knew about PNAC. And, recall, she did not only vote for the invasion: She advocated for it.

[RiverLover]

3. Your #1 is my #1.

Its so ironic to me that one of the very first members of "centrism", allowing republican economic policy to infiltrate the Democratic Party, is our top contender. Now, at a time when we're feeling the detrimental effects of post-Reagan Dems' policies more than ever. And we can see it clearly, those who are paying attention anyways. Most aren't and are only guided by corporate media spin & a fond memory of a good economy during the Clinton years as the bubble grew.

I have more than 3 though, that's for sure. No time to list them all now.

Thanks for an interesting topic merrily. Though the 3 things you listed cannot be undone. Although #3 to me was just dirty politics. Business as usual for New Democrats.

[merrily]

6. I do have more as well. But, I can overlook a lot of them.

[merrily]

10. Delayed reaction: I put my three items in chronological order, not in order of importance to me.

I don't know if I could rank them by importance to me. They are all huge to me.

[Enthusiast]

4. The DLC agenda was so destructive to our interests.

That agenda was to abandon traditional Democratic Party FDR values. The nation had already moved too far to the right under Reagan. We didn't need our party to aid the deregulators.

[merrily]

5. Personal ambition trumped.

[pscot]

9. K&R

[Cosmic Kitten]

11. I would add her association with "the Family"

Religion and politics is toxic and deadly mix.

[sabrina 1]

12. Close ties to Wall St is another for me, along with those you mentioned.

I watched 'Inside Job' again last night, and to say that I am angry that these criminals got off, not only scott free, but with their ill-gotten gains intact, is putting it mildly.

Watching Summers and Greenspan in action gives me chills. To think we might face more of these people collecting more of our money for themselves is enough for me to oppose ANYONE who has any ties to these criminals.

Where, eg, does Hillary stand on Deregulation? Frankly I don't know where she stands on almost any of the issues that are so important to the people.

A big question all candidates need to be asked is 'who will be in your Cabinet'.

And this time no accepting of 'I will be making that decision soon'.

If I were running for that office I would already have a good idea of who I need to help me push for the issues I am running on.

[cantbeserious]

14. HRC Voted For And Supported GWB And The Iraq War.

eom

[merrily]

15. Yep. That is one of the four things.