How about this populist plan

[aspirant]

Let's urge Bernie to run as a Dem into the primary and if he sees he will lose. then switch to the Green's or run as an Independent spoiler. When HRC comes with hat in hand asking Bernie to drop out knowing she can't win with a split Dem base, then let Bernie put forth his demands.

He wants total control of DNC, DSCC, DCCC funds and he will run only Populist/Progressive candidates of his choice in all house and senate races. Any right-wing dem incumbents who won't fit in will be forced to retire and he will put together his 50-state strategy

We must find our places of power and exploit them. The Nadar spoiler role is still fresh in the minds of party leadership.

I know this is all premised on how much the PTB want HRC as President because a repub will do just as well for them. The more we can expose this corporate dem corruption, the more Populist votes we can amass.

[rogerashton]

1. And the Nader spoiler role got us the Iraq war, among other tragedies.

Anyway, even if HRC were to cave to that sort of strategy and make promises to Sanders, she could disavow them when elected without the least cost. She would be widely applauded for doing so.

We must find our places of power and exploit them.

Yes, of course. But remember that we do not have a democratic political system. We have two-party totalitarianism. The real choices are to work outside the two-party system completely or to contest primaries and local elections within the Democratic party.

[aspirant]

3. That's my dilemna

Working inside or outside.

"contesting primaries and local elections" Tell me how we do that without big money for a national focus or huge numbers of boots on the ground being lowly paid or sweaty volunteers?

"Nader spoiler role got us the Iraq War..." Nader was in it to the end for many reasons, my suggestion is for Bernie to use it as his bargaining chip to get Populist concessions and drop out. Concessions can't be promises, they must be actions. Maybe appointing Bernie as DNC chair or his chosen representative. Just the 2016 cycle could give an increase in Populist representation in congress. A populist 50 state strategy sure would be nice.

This is dependent of how strong the Clinton machine still is. If Bernie gets enough exposure in primary debates and a large enough following, HRC will have no choice but to cave if she wants the coveted Presidency

[sabrina 1]

11. The SC got us the Iraq War. Illegally, unconstitutionally and treasonously. Not to

mention the hundreds of thousands of Dems who voted for Bush.

All Nader did was run in a political race that is perfectly legal.

Constantly trying to blame him for the entire corrupt system including the five traitors on the SC, is a distraction, and I wouldn't be surprised if it was a planned distraction, from the ACTUAL CULPRITS. I know that none of the Five Felons who GAVE US the Iraq War, Bush, Torture, and the planned PNAC policies, want to talk about their role, which they KNEW was unconstitutional even claiming it would not 'set a precedent'.

Let's not, at least here, distract from that entire cabal who were going to steal that election for Bush/Cheney no matter WHAT the circumstances.

[Warpy]

25. Nader didn't do that, a corrupt and partisan Supreme Court did

along with his brother running one of the most corrupt states in the country.

The full state count by the consortium of newspapers showed that Gore won the state, Nader and all. Jeb would not allow a full recount.

Get it?

Besides, I knew a few Nader voters in Florida, right wing neighbors of my dad, all retired, all upper middle class, and all Republican. They just recognized who and what Stupid was and cast a protest vote for Nader.

So stop with the Nader fiction. It should never have come down to a state with Stupid's brother in the governor's mansion. The USSC should have ordered a full state recount. The whole thing was a con job: the fix was in long before anyone cast a vote there.

[Hoppy]

2. Was it Nader who fucked it up or was it Gore running a shitty campaign?

[zeemike]

4. Or was it simply a stolen election?

When you see 50 thousand votes in a Jewish community for Buchanan you know something is wrong...Nader would have made no difference if he had run or not...the fix was in.

[aspirant]

7. There was a fix in Florida too

and all fingers were pointed at Nader as the spoiler.

With all the disillusionment in the 2014 elections, HRC must know she needs every vote she can get. Why do you think her shills are pushing extra hard for party loyalty?

[zeemike]

9. I think you hit the proverbial nail.

On the proverbial head.

All the special interests do social media.

[Enthusiast]

22. It was stolen election all the way. Operatives created the Nader narrative as a smoke screen.

They did this to take our eyes off the real issue, voter suppression, organized Florida election fraud and a corrupt Far Right Wing supreme court.

The fix was certainly in. It was in at a very high level.

They, the Far Right Neo-Con Fascists, had big plans once they captured the government. They put these plans into motion with the 911 false flag operation. With this operation they accomplished a number of goals. One of which was probably looting the treasury. They also stole a second presidential election by focusing their efforts in Ohio the second time.

Imagine a clandestine Third Reich operating in secrecy at the highest levels of the American intelligence apparatus.

[zeemike]

27. Right on all counts.

But they have created a powerful meme that can shut anyone up who dares say it...the Conspiracy Theory.

[Enthusiast]

29. Yeah. The conspiracy theory.

I quit watching Rachel Maddow for over a year because of her program where she poo pooed the conspiracy theory.

Basically she said anything the establishment claimed was a conspiracy theory was essentially discredited and in fact a conspiracy theory. I couldn't believe Rachel was saying this. This was a perfect illustration just how far the Fascist tentacles reached. I knew the brilliant Rachel could not have believed what she was saying but she did not betray her doubts in the least. I was shocked.

[zeemike]

30. I am not shocked at all.

They also have another powerful tool...money...that is how they coopt people.
And if she wants the big bucks she will have to tow the line with the owners...and we got a look at it when Cenk Uygur was given the speech and told about it.

[aspirant]

5. For me now, this is irrevalent

The spoiler effect is a proven fact, that's the POWER.

We can use this to our advantage.

[Cosmic Kitten]

23. If the spoiler is a POWER tool...

don't put your first choices,
Warren, Sanders, etc out in front.

There are plenty of other candidates who
should be willing to accept that role, with honor.

[aspirant]

26. Trust, ethics, a genuine populist candidate

aren't easy to find. The point here is to get actual populist concessions, not a candidate that will take corporations money and run.

[marble falls]

6. Both. I got he feeling Al Gore did not have any 'fire' in his belly....

It makes no sense for a third party challenge in a two party election framework.

I'd like to see a requirement in a three or more way election that the winner takes 51% or there would be a re match with the top two or three candidates.

I'd like to see a "none of the above" option, if NOA wins, than a re-slating of candidates.

Maybe its time for a more parliamentary like system in the US, with some sort of term limits.

[Hoppy]

13. Gore's first mistake was backing away from the Clinton presidency.

[marble falls]

14. BINGO! A mistake repeated last November.

[sabrina 1]

12. It was the Supreme Court and the Bush cabal who had cheated in the election itself

and had only one more hurdle in Florida, which the Five Felons on the SC fixed for them.

Nader had nothing to do with it.

[beerandjesus]

31. And let's not forget Gore's abysmal campaign.

...and the PMRC, which I maintain cost him more votes than Nader could have dreamed of garnering.

[RiverLover]

8. HRC would keep promise of meeting Bernie's "demands"?

The media & polls on name recognition at this point are making us all think HRC is a shoe-in.

I'm not buying what they're selling.

[aspirant]

10. That's why I Think this is a win-win

If Bernie catches fire in the early primaries, then all the way to the Presidency.

If he attracts even a decent following(5-10%) this could make the difference in who is President.

Demands can't be promises, actions only. Appointments, ConservaeDems dropping out of primaries,Obama's EO requiring all corps with govt contracts disclosing any and all political contributions, reverse privatization, etc.

[Cosmic Kitten]

24. I'm not buying what they're selling either

That's why its so important to keep repeating that message...
Hillary is being FORCED on us by the party establishment and the MSM

[whereisjustice]

15. After all that has been learned about that election...

- Dumping minorities from voter roles
- 300,000+ FLORIDA Democrats voting for Bush
- Gore's shitty campaign including his support of bullshit airport as a gift to political donors on edge of everglades that cost him thousands of votes
- Gore running away from Clinton
- And Clinton's own stupid, arrogant behavior
- A corrupt Florida election official
- A corrupt supreme court

You are going to blame the election on the most remotely differential statistical inference, Ralph Nader.

Until Democrats learn that ignoring your constituency and STUPID executive leadership moves have consequences, history will repeat itself.

We don't know what Gore would have done in Iraq. We don't know shit about that.

We do know, by way of clear, well documented facts, that Democratic leadership fucked up. Again. By putting corporate interests ahead of the nation's interests and by making a large plurality of STUPID, triangulating mistakes, they lost the election. And we do know if Nader hadn't run, those votes would have been split between other third parties and BUSH because many Nader supporters historically had voted REPUBLICAN!

Lazy, convenient, bullshit excuses covering up BAD leadership. Until we start holding leadership accountable for their fuck ups, nothing will change.

On edit:

Speaking of Florida fucking up, how's Debbie Wasserman Shultz doing? Going to blame that on Nader too?

[aspirant]

17. There's some confusion here

I don't care if Gore won, lost, was run out of town, campaigned in the nude it doesn't matter.

The corrupt media laid the blame on Nader, the spoiler, and the the spoiler role became real. Just go to GD to find out how divided the dem party is now and HRC is fighting for every vote she can get.

Bernie will be in the driver's seat with a large enough following to actually play the spoiler role and get the concessions, not promises we need. These horse trades go on everyday in life. If you want to take out Nader, go for it, he's just a symbol. Bernie will have POWER with a primary following and you can call him a horse trader, negotiator, deal maker or a potential spoiler

Personally, I hope he catches fire and goes all the way to the Presidency.

[whereisjustice]

19. I agree - we need politcal competition and the threat of consequences for ignoring the will

of the people. My point about Nader is that we need to be smart enough not to be fooled by the lazy narrative that "Nader caused Iraq" therefore we should only support HRC.

That's 100% pure, undiluted bullshit and we have to be stronger than that.

Remember "Gore invented the internet? Clearly, that was not handled well.

There needs to be real consequences to the arrogance of leadership. They will fight Bernie Sanders to the bitter end and in doing so, there needs to be consequences that leadership bears, instead of the rank and file.

The citizens role in our representative Government has become reversed. Leadership threatens us with consequences for not doing what they want us to do. They cut our pay and benefits.

They are not our boss. They are not elected CEO of a corporation called USA.

That shit needs to stop right now.

[aspirant]

20. In agreement

They will try to butcher Bernie any way they can but it is us, the ones who support him that must stand steadfast or we put our best hope on the butcher block to be cut into pieces.

[whereisjustice]

21. btw - on re-reading my post, I was using 'you' in the pejorative sense, but

probably wasn't clear.

Your idea is rock solid so I wanted to head off the usual 'Nader caused the Iraq war' nonsense that substitutes for the inconvenient truth, to borrow a phrase

Nader is a device used by Democratic leadership to divert attention away from the fact that the DNC's own self serving corruption does far more harm to the USA than any outside pressure to clean up their act.

[colsohlibgal]

16. We Can't Stay On This Path

It's strangling the middle class and lower classes. We keep accepting the better of two not very good options - full blown republican wing nut versus owned by Wall Street as well Republican Lite. We can't keep voting for options that aren't good to defeat options that are worse.

[aspirant]

18. This path leads nowhere for us.

We have 1 corporate party with 2 names, a real sorry state of affairs.

IMO, we must chip away at this power in win-win situations or go outside the party system and start anew

I feel your frustration and others too and we need real hope and change NOW

[JimDandy]

28. I agree colsohlibgal. n/t