Manny and Steven, sittin' in a tree...

[MannyGoldstein]

Please join me in a BIG welcome for Third-Way Steven!!! (Leser, that is)

Great stuff! You had us going for years!

As a someone who's also had to deal with a Fox faux doppleganger for many years, I'd like to trade a few tips with you in the hopes that you'll reciprocate and the four of us can build a lasting relationship.

Here goes:

1. You've done a magnificent job of contrasting your First- and Third-Way personae. Certainly, looking at the contrast between the two, the archetypes of Populism and Neoliberalism, no rational person would ever think that they were the same persona. Never. However, it's important to alternate personas on a regular basis, or else people won't realize it's a gag; they'll just see one persona and think it's for real. And while your Third-Way persona turns out to be Andy Kaufmann-quality humor - really excellent stuff - few if any DU readers had ever seen your First-Way persona until a few days ago, so many of us thought the Third-Way thing was for real. Man, did you have us going!

2. It's good to add a tip-off towards the end of each Third Way performance so that the reader finally gets that you're putting them on. Between Poe's law, and Third-Way Democrats actually advocating insane stuff like total bank deregulation, BS free trade treaties, wars-for-kicks, further increases in military spending, the Heritage Foundation's national health insurance plan, privatizing schools and other stuff, letting banks use the FDIC insurance money to make hyper-risky bets, cutting Social Security, and so forth, it's really, really hard to do this. As far as I can tell, try as you might, you've not been able to go far enough right to make the gag obvious. At this point, maybe something about DWS exorcising the Liberal spirits from Zombie Ronald Reagan? Ah, but since she regularly endorses Republican candidates in Florida, and since even today's Democrats are to the right of Reagan... well good luck with that. Work hard, you'll find something.

All that being said, I welcome you, o kindred spirit! Together, we can ensure that DU's juries will consume as much electric power as the energy generated by FDR spinning in his grave at today's Democratic Party antics.

Huzzah!

Regards,

Both-Ways Mannys

(No, that's not a comment on my sexuality. Not that there'd be anything wrong if it was. I was just born this way, deal with it.)

[Demeter]

1. Born what way---permanently warped?

Must we go there, Manny? Can't we leave the third grade behind, if not the Third Way? It's the combination of the two that makes my stomach churn.

[marym625]

3. I don't believe you can separate the third grade and third-way

That's just about where all those children were left behind. Er, I mean not left behind

[marym625]

2. k-i-s-s-i-n-g!

to Third-Way-Steve!

Isyay ehay oinggay otay etgay ayay essonlay inyay eethray-ayway eakspay?

[MannyGoldstein]

4. Ixnay

etLay'say eepkay ityay ouryay ittlelay ecretsay orfay ownay. obodyNay illway igurefay ityay outyay.

[marym625]

5. Okyay.

Yesyay, Iyay'may ositivepay isthay odecay isyay unbreakableyay. ustJay ikelay ethay erversay inyay omesay acesplay.

[MannyGoldstein]

13. But

Anywayyay, ouldnway'tay atthay ebay ayay ivefay ayway? eemsSay eallyray onfusingcay.

[Aerows]

14. For one second I thought I was reading a eastern European dialect

and then my eyes just crossed and couldn't follow it.

[MannyGoldstein]

16. Top secret code

Extensively used by the NSA, until SnowWald leaked it to a select few people.

Mary and I are Fringe-Left Libertarians like SnowWald, so we got it.

[marym625]

38. +100

utBay youyay'eray ivinggay awayyay ootay uchmay informationyay. Shhhay.

[hootinholler]

42. Shaal gung

Shaal gung V gubhtug gurl hfrq ebg 13

[navarth]

24. Aerows my friend

you must not be familiar with The Three Stooges.

[Aerows]

49. I'm not.

I was too busy watching the Carol Burnett Show.

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x2mqw16

[navarth]

53. Ha! But please keep in mind

they are not mutually exclusive. Especially when you consider that they happened decades apart. I will not say anything in Pig Latin, however. Ixnay on the Ig Latin Pay.

Carol Burnett was such a great show. Harvey Korman was truly demented. Love his work.

[marym625]

54. that was may favorite show ever!

I wanted to be Carol Burnett when I grew up

[TM99]

57. I knew I liked you for very good reasons!

My whole family watched the Carol Burnett show and laughed our asses off every time. They were all comic geniuses!

[marym625]

59. Absolutely!

And Carol Burnett is still going strong. She is an amazing woman.

I knew I liked you too. I knew you had to be a Carol Burnett Show fan!

[marym625]

36. hmm

Three people x two ways is six way, no? As long as we can make everyone happy, it's all good. Just have to change it up with the wind

[MisterP]

43. aygays ausedcay two-ousandthay and entay!

[marym625]

44. aysGay idday! eyThay ausedcay everythingyay adbay!

eThay esusJay isyay unishingpay usyay! atWhay appenedhay inyay otway ousandthay entay?

[MisterP]

45. ywhay oesday obodynay otevay orfay usay?

[marym625]

48. oWhay isyay usay?

[MisterP]

50. usay irdThay ayWers!

[marym625]

52. uSay oryay youyay?

Youyay'eray usingyay ouryay ighlyhay ecretsay anguagelay osay youyay ustmay ebay ayay irdthay-ayerway. isterMay Pay. Ifyay atthay isyay youryay ealray amenay

[roguevalley]

6. another boar-ish conversation on DU :D I needed that. ;)

[tularetom]

7. I knew you'd find a home for this when it got expelled from GD-P

Has Steve the Lesser raised his head out of his rabbit hole since his cover got blowed?

I've had him on ignore for months ever since he chastized me for not "knowing WHO he was".

For a guy who runs a podcast out of his mom's basement with his own Cheeto stained fingers, he seems awfully full of himself.

[MannyGoldstein]

8. Yes. Third-Way Steve posted a long and entertaining endorsement of Hillary Clinton

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1251662117

[Doctor_J]

11. The link doesn't work

It's just like The Third Way in that respect

[MannyGoldstein]

12. Try now.

My bad.

[cpompilo]

18. Anyone have a list of journalists and their candidate endorsements?

just wondering. Used to be (and I admit I'm old), there were journalistic ethics against endorsing candidates, weren't there? I could be wrong.

[Divernan]

26. Absolutely. A prize-winning investigative reporter of my close acquaintance

makes it a point to never comment publicly about anything political, and although he is very generous to charities, he never contributes to political candidates, parties or any organization pushing a political agenda. It would compromise his professional independence, call his professional integrity into question, and generally destroy his credibility. (He has won several Sigma Delta Chi awards, as well as a couple of Edward R. Murrow awards.)

People who blog/publish opinion columns are not journalists.

[cpompilo]

33. Oh, that's right: Steven's a Fox News contributor, in the honored tradition of Alan Colmes. Not a

journalist. My bad. I read he was a journalist on a DU post by a Hillarista. Shouldn't have believed it. I stand corrected.

[marym625]

37. like Greg Palast said,

"I'm a journalist, I don't endorse candidates. But I also don't allow for bullshit."


Here's his interview after he made that statement on his Facebook and Twitter.

[questionseverything]

71. excellent interview with palast

we have tons of evidence in the public view that jeb bush personally disfranchised 1000s of black voters and yet somehow instead of being behind bars he is running for president



palast correctly points out it was the bill clinton administration that should of been overseeing (prosecuting bush) and has been missing in action

bernie has supported palast work trying to get AA votes counted

[marym625]

73. Bernie and Palast ROCK

#FeelTheBern

[merrily]

56. In our world, the government passes a law expressly allowing the government to propagandize

its own citizens at their expense. Inasmuch as governments have always done a good bit of that, one shudders to wonder what the lawmakers actually had in mind. In that same vein, "journalism" created for itself a sharp distinction between "journalism" and commentary. And almost everyone today, certainly everyone on TV, seems to be a commentator. And then we have a de facto third group, which just makes up stuff, like Fox News and Brian Williams currently of MSNBC.

And then, we're all supposed to believe that our world is exactly as government and media tell us it is and anyone who suspects otherwise is a paranoid nut case.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/127710043

[marym625]

64. +100

[Aerows]

9. Jury results:

On Sat Oct 10, 2015, 05:39 PM an alert was sent on the following post:

I knew you'd find a home for this when it got expelled from GD-P
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1277&pid=10081

REASON FOR ALERT

This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.

ALERTER'S COMMENTS

"Steve the lesser" is a personal insult toward another DUer. This habit of using DU to gossip and talk shit about other members is ugly and makes DU suck.

You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Sat Oct 10, 2015, 05:48 PM, and the Jury voted 3-4 to LEAVE IT.

Juror #1 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: multiple personal attacks.
Juror #2 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: Admins--this is just childish and mean commentary between an instigator and an egger-on. I think remarks like this should earn a poster a short vacation, even if they don't have five HIDES--an "admin's slap" if you will. Maybe that will improve civility.
steven leser does not deserve to be treated this way, he is a good DUer.
Juror #3 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #4 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #5 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #6 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #7 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Ugly, but fitting assessment.

Thank you very much for participating in our Jury system, and we hope you will be able to participate again in the future.

[MannyGoldstein]

10. So many alerts!

The OP survived 4-3.

[Marty McGraw]

20. Sometimes

The Truth Stings.

We've all come across Greedy Opportunists in the Past. The MO is really transparent to those that have shared this Earth after a short while

[LuvNewcastle]

35. An"admin's slap?"

[Aerows]

41. I was just on the jury.

I think that this entire bit has been to goad long term DUers and those serving on MIRT to bust a chain.

Didn't work. Perhaps they can go back to their intrusion hidey hole and plot a different way to get good DUers banned.

That appears to be the goal.

[merrily]

70. IMO, that's been the goal for as long as I have been posting on DU, to

get members of DU's left banned or to drive them off, or to shut them up.


(skip to 2:25)

[frylock]

76. Steven was on the jury of one of my latest hides..

I'm 99% certain he was the jurist calling for MIRT to finish the job. My hide from last night had a comment that said "I love when I get called to my own juries." They're trying hard to get people who gum up the works banned.

[navarth]

25. Steve the Lesser LOL

...man, humor can be so vicious sometimes. Really caught me there. Glad I wasn't drinking coffee.

[demwing]

15. This post has received multiple SOP alerts

each explaining to me that SOP says "No disruptive meta."

I find this odd, because when I wrote the SOP, I was very explicit:

"To discuss and debate issues, candidates, and strategies related to the promotion of progressive, populist reforms within the Democratic Party."

Not a word about "No disruptive meta."

Now my ground rules are a little different:

SOME GROUND RULES:

• The PRG is a safe house for DUers interested in the progressive, populist reform of our Democratic party.
• If you disagree with PRG's message or goal, that's OK. Find a group that fits, or enjoy the DU forums.
• Everyone starts out as welcomed. No one earns their way in - only their way out.
• Follow all DU rules. Don't put the group at risk

Hmm, still nothing about "No disruptive meta."

I understand this post was cross-posted from GDP, where it WAS locked as having violated the SOP of that forum. A valid lock, IMO.

That's why I was happy to have Manny post his OP here at the PRG. Manny's OP falls under the header of debate of issues, candidates, and strategies related to the promotion of progressive, populist reforms within the Democratic Party.

The post will stand.

I hope Manny posts more frequently in the Progressive Reform Group. As long as he continues to follow the SOP, he'll always be welcome here.

[MannyGoldstein]

17. You're not suggesting that a swarm of alerters lied?

Interesting.

[demwing]

19. Lied? No, I wouldn't say THAT...

I'd say they were disconnected from the ability to alert honestly.

[rhett o rick]

62. Now don't be giving the "alerter squad" so much guff. They have good intentions.

They are simply trying to "cleanse" DU of all Far Lefties. You know, those trouble makers that won't drink the kool-aid. They are happy with the state of the nation and world. They often refer to it as being pragmatic to accept the growing poverty rates of American children. About 16,000,000 living in poverty and about 32,000,000 living in low income families, but it could be worse. Our founders would be ashamed that these so-callled Democrats are willing to bend to the yoke of the Oligarchs.

[AlbertCat]

22. "No disruptive meta."

Is that a synonym for "something embarrassing to wishy washy Dems"?

[Mosby]

23. the disruptive meta rule applies to all of DU

According to Skinner.

[Scootaloo]

31. But what each group considers "disruptive" might be different

[demwing]

32. And anyone is free to send in a standard alert on the OP

and let a Jury decide whether this is disruptive.

Those who sent in an SOP alert, IMO, failed to support their position.

[merrily]

55. Thank you. Skinner leaves that to the hosts of each group and/or a DU jury.

I just saw the alerts. Whether he amuses every member of his audience or not, MannyGoldstein is known in the DU community for satire and parody and the Original Post is clearly a satirical reference to Leser's two very different pieces about Hillary Clinton.

I haven't finished reading the thread yet, but I have already seen that most of the hosts of this group, including both the OP and the head host of the group, have already posted on this thread. I guess that means a majority of hosts have implicitly voted not to lock the thread or block MannyGoldstein from the group.

A DU jury has also already let the post stand.

No system pleases everyone all the time. For better or worse, DU seems to have already decided that the OP is not disruptive meta. FWIW, I always thought OJ killed Nicole and Ron, but a jury of his peers decided otherwise and, in the system that applied to him, that meant he went free.

I might add, I've seen a lot of ugly meta in other groups on this board that stands. I hope the Populist Group can survive the ONE and only OP of this kind that I've ever seen here.

[marym625]

39. that's why this group is so great

Man, more alerts today than, well, ever!

[Salviati]

21. I'll tell ya, that second tip is very important...

I mean, I can't tell you how many posts you've made where I'll read the title, click through to the post, and get myself all riled up at what's posted, only to finally notice the Third-way Manny sign off. To which I say well done, sir!

[ChiciB1]

34. AND I Have No Idea What This Is All About!

I have to admit that I leave DU and come back many times and it seems those times I'm gone some sort of prank has been going on for a while. Or maybe it's something else completely different. I've seen the some posts about Steve and googled him but I must be out in "LEFT" field and missed something.

I feel rather stupid even asking what's going on, and even more stupid because I've been a member here since 2004 and generally feel my opinions are very close to MannyGoldstein, at least 90 to 100% of the time.

Sounds like some sort of dual personality or maybe an inside joke. If someone like me doesn't understand this I must be totally out of the loop, missed the situation completely which makes me think I'm the doofus to be laughed off this board.

So even if I am such a doofus I can't help myself from being curious and opening myself up for ridicule. Re-reading this post even looks like I've lost a few marbles. Is it possible to get an explanation of this or should I just go away scratching my head????
not enough smilies to add how I feel!

[marym625]

40. see reply 8 here

Then, on the linked post, reply 126

[hrmjustin]

27. Your adult behavior is a shining example to us all Manny!

[MannyGoldstein]

29. Wanna see some real adult behavior?

Role models, even?

Then join the action at:

Hillaryclintonsupporters.com

Again, thats:

Hillaryclintonsupporters.com

Where the elite meet to greet, and plan stuff in secret.

[hrmjustin]

30. Enjoy reading.

[sheshe2]

46. ;)

[navarth]

28. LOL

Manny, you surpass yourself. So funny.

[Doctor_J]

47. let's not forget that Steven likes to call Sanders fans "Clinton haters". ironic considering the

tirade that he unleashed when Clinton was running against a black man. Now that was some hatred there.

[merrily]

58. I am not sure what is happening.

MannyGoldstein posted the OP of this thread early Saturday evening. Early Sunday morning, Steve Leser posted this on his own thread, the very thread that this thread started by MannyGoldstein comments on--and I need not remind anyone that Leser was the OP of that thread:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=664362

I'm almost certain that Leser had seen this MannyGoldstein thread before Leser made that post, referring to the OP of his own thread as though he and the OP of his own thread were two different people.

What does this all mean? Plagiarism? Admission against interest? Tree hugging? Satire folding in on itself? Perne in gyre?

It's all very confusing, I must say.

[marym625]

60. I THINK he's referring to the post calling him out in the first place

This one. The one he pretends to address in his OP that caused the post we're on. Yet he doesn't actually address it at all And ignores questions about it

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1251658816

[merrily]

66. Yes, I think you're right. I should have looked at context.

Too bad. It was much more fun when I thought he was referring to himself in the third person--and it interfaced so well with the Original Post of this thread, too. Sigh.

[marym625]

67. well, he is now among the ranks of the great impersonator

Third-way-Manny. So, ya never know

[merrily]

68. That's what I mean: it would have been so funny.

Now, I haz a sad because it wasn't as funny as I thought. In fact, it wasn't funny at all.

[marym625]

72. It was very funny!

I laughed my ass off! <-- see? No ass

[merrily]

74. I found it.

[marym625]

75. LMFAO!

Awesome! Love it! And thanks!

[marym625]

61. Verisimilitude

[rhett o rick]

63. In response to alerts on this thread, as a host of this Group I do not find this thread

to violate the SOP of the Group.

[marym625]

65. While it's obvious I agree

I have to second that.

Hi Rhett!

[rhett o rick]

69. Hi back.

[Electric Monk]

77. k&r

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=1513647

It's not the change of opinion, it is his wallowing in volitile and extreme rhetoric no matter what

the opinion of the moment might be. 'She is the worst' becomes 'she is the best and he is the worst' without any hint of reason. Of course anyone is free to carry on like that, but readers are also free to respond to the contradictory and self indulgent nature of the verbiage.

It's also hard to miss the fact that DU is full of people who berated and attacked Hillary full steam for months in 08 who now do that same thing to Bernie while praising Hillary to the skies. That's all great until they start in on other people for criticizing Hillary. That's just hypocrisy which is always naff. It is a special brand of irony that the Hillary Clinton Group is made up of some of the DUers who have over the years written the very worst things about her. When folks who have utterly castigated her stand up to complain that others are mildly critical of her, that's self serving and ugly behavior. The candidate really has nothing to do with it.