Why is there so much hatred for "Joker - Folie a Deux" ?

[DetlefK]

The premise is fairly simple: A man is on trial for the murders he committed, and at the same time he struggles with his mental illness in jail.

I actually liked it. It's a good movie.

But SOME people expected a generic comicbook-movie with explosions and over-the-top action-scenes. And what they got was a psychological drama.



My guess is, what really broke those fans was the moment when Arthur Fleck decided to not go into an extended rant how being mistreated by society justifies violence. When the movie-character "the Joker" deprived these real-life fans of what they really wanted to hear: That being an outcast makes you special snowflake, and that pseudo-intellectual, self-absorbed, generalizing rants about the failures of society mean that you are not only smarter but also morally a better person than those sheep who think that violence is wrong.

They wanted from this movie an explosive grandiose hate-filled rant against society that justifies their self-declared victimhood and their preconceived political opinions. Instead the "hero" of the movie told them that they are wrong and that hatred is not the answer.

[OldBaldy1701E]

1. Yep.

They did not follow the 'formula'. You know the one that says you must destroy anyone who disagrees with you and then salt their fields and kill their livestock. Which is what usually happens in these films. Might makes right.

[FM123]

2. My daughter and I went to see it and we liked it too!

[Xavier Breath]

3. I tend to put more stock in the professional critics' reviews than the audience's

since the average American thinks Adam Sandler a genius, and only a handful of critics have liked it. I'm planning on seeing it tomorrow so maybe I'll see where those critics are coming from.

And, I concur that the likely reason audiences haven't liked it is probably due to not enough shit blowing up. I'm sure the musical numbers didn't help, either.

[wolfie001]

4. I'm sure anyone that doesn't like it is a MAGA

They despise GaGa because she's a lovely person who has empathy. Plus, she's immensely talented. Those MAGA clowns let their hate infect and affect all thinking. Very consuming. That's my take on that.

[jfz9580m]

5. I am looking forward to it

Edit: Sounds cool based on this review:
https://www.vanityfair.com/hollywood/story/joker-ending-2-folie-a-deux

I liked the original too. I didn’t see an incel theme and I see a lot of subtle men’s rights subtext out there. Those first 3 guys he kills were misogynists harassing that woman on the train. They would be Musk style Maga today.

One reason for its failure could be that it was not advertised as a musical.

I am not a fan of musicals myself (with the exception of My Fair Lady). Had I not known that, that might have annoyed me in a theatre.

Musicals are not for everyone. I dislike it when the plot stops and everyone breaks into song and dance.

But since I will be watching it on streaming vid, I will fast fwd the songs if they drag on too much.

Edit: And it is good that someone gave the middle finger to that victimhood and violence bs. Now if only someone would also give the middle finger to the very self -consciously “stable, moderate, sensible” voices of reason who “unlike all those emotional fools operate purely on logic and facts” .

I am wary of excessive emotion, but I also find it funny when people clearly think they are logical and sensible with no awareness of the fact that their self-perceptions are on display as much as those of any “emotional fools”. None of us see ourselves as others see us.

[TexasBushwhacker]

6. I agree with you about the musical issue

I once went on a blind date with a guy who hadn't even seen The Wizard of Oz because he "didn't like musicals".

The Joker sequel, as a musical, was an enormous risk to take and considering that it cost $200 Million to make, its hopes of even breaking even are slim. Spielberg's "West Side Story" was well received by critics, but a box office bomb, making only $76 Million on a $100 Million budget.

Conversely, "La La Land" was a huge critical and box office success, BUT it only cost $30 Million to make. So the lesson is, if you are going to take a big risk, keep the budget low to medium.

[jfz9580m]

7. They aren't for everyone

The only ones I have ever seen are My Fair Lady and The Sound of Music.
I think Moulin Rouge was another high budget one that bombed.

I am also never thrilled when shows have the odd musical episode. I was bummed that the entire fourth season of Dear White People was musical!

[TexasBushwhacker]

8. Moulin Rouge actually did well

I will say I prefer movies WITH music over traditional musicals where people break out into song. The Commitments is one of my favorites in that category.

[jfz9580m]

9. Ah-my mistake

I’ll keep an eye out for The Commitments.

[bif]

11. That and "This is Spinal Tap"

[Xavier Breath]

10. I was able to go see it and I have to agree with the consensus that it was underwhelming.

From a fanboy standpoint, I can see why they didn't like it. It is for all intents and purposes, a musical. It just happens to be a musical about a character that was much better illustrated in a movie five years ago. I guess that's my biggest takeaway from it: it really makes me appreciate the first movie a lot more by comparison. As for canon, it's relation to Batman is just about zero. Gotham and Arkham are mentioned, and the prosecutor is Harvey Dent, but while the first movie gave you a definite feel for the Joker/Batman world, I can see why fanboys would stay away from this one in droves. You could have easily changed the names of the characters and its setting and not have missed a beat. And I don't mean that in a good way.

Kudos to the director and screenwriter for taking chances, I'm just not that impressed with their results. YMMV.

I'll add that I was the only one in the theater at the showing I chose. It was an early afternoon showing on discount day, too. Those tend to attract more folks given the price of tickets. I can't believe that bodes well for the movie's bottom line.