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This message was self-deleted by its author (carolinayellowdog) on Mon Dec 8, 2014, 08:23 AM. When the original post in a discussion thread is self-deleted, the entire discussion thread is automatically locked so new replies cannot be posted.
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[font style="font-family:papyrus,'Brush Script MT','comic sans MS',fantasy;" size=4 color=teal]That does not mean its okay to use them when referring to a group. Especially when those words have a long history of being used solely for their negative connotations.[/font]
[div class="excerpt" style="margin-left:1em; border:1px solid #bfbfbf; border-radius:0.4615em; box-shadow:3px 3px 3px #999999;"]You also seem to think that because it involves the use of violence in some areas that it then must involve violence over the whole spectrum. Really?
[font style="font-family:papyrus,'Brush Script MT','comic sans MS',fantasy;" size=4 color=teal]I did not say that.
However, with regards to the case at hand it does refer to violence. Militant {insert religion here} refers to people who resort to violence. In particular those who resort to terrorism. Comparing someone like Bill Maher to Timothy McVeigh is incredibly offensive.[/font]
[div class="excerpt" style="margin-left:1em; border:1px solid #bfbfbf; border-radius:0.4615em; box-shadow:3px 3px 3px #999999;"]Additionally, do you believe then that the "WAR on Poverty" means that our people are going out and killing, maiming, or otherwise physically injuring the poor people of the country? Because according to your cherry-picking of the various meanings of both "militant" and "war" that only the violent definitions are meant for each group.
[font style="font-family:papyrus,'Brush Script MT','comic sans MS',fantasy;" size=4 color=teal]The term "War on Poverty" is meant to instill an image of us doing everything we can do to put an end to poverty. Even then there is no person or thing to harm or toward whom to direct violent acts. The "War" on drugs however, has resulted in a massive amount of violence and injury.
By the same measure the word "Militant" is meant to instill the picture of someone belonging to an active militia...including committing acts of violence.
I don't think posting dictionary definitions is cherry picking. If so you would have to accuse the OP doing the same. I also don't see how the definition you posted counter my comments. It specifically says "Fighting, engaged in warfare." [/font]
[div class="excerpt" style="margin-left:1em; border:1px solid #bfbfbf; border-radius:0.4615em; box-shadow:3px 3px 3px #999999;"]Well, I'm glad I understand that the English language is full of words with broad definitions and not limited to narrow interpretations by those offended by one variation.
[font style="font-family:papyrus,'Brush Script MT','comic sans MS',fantasy;" size=4 color=teal]So you have no issue using words other minorities find to be slurs? The word "hysterical" has a broad definition as well but I don't think you would get far in the feminism groups on this site using it to describe any of their members.[/font]
[div class="excerpt" style="margin-left:1em; border:1px solid #bfbfbf; border-radius:0.4615em; box-shadow:3px 3px 3px #999999;"]militant (adj.)
early 15c., "fighting, engaged in warfare," from Middle French militant "fighting," from Latin militantem (nominative militans), present participle of militare "serve as a soldier" (see militate), originally especially in Church militant. Related: Militantly.
[font style="font-family:papyrus,'Brush Script MT','comic sans MS',fantasy;" size=4 color=teal]Correct me if I am wrong but what do soldiers do in wars? Don't they commit acts of violence and murder. From your links:[/font]
[div class="excerpt" style="margin-left:1em; border:1px solid #bfbfbf; border-radius:0.4615em; box-shadow:3px 3px 3px #999999;"]war (n.) Look up war at Dictionary.com
late Old English wyrre, werre "large-scale military conflict," from Old North French werre "war" (Old French guerre "difficulty, dispute; hostility; fight, combat, war;" Modern French guerre), from Frankish *werra, from Proto-Germanic *werz-a- (cognates: Old Saxon werran, Old High German werran, German verwirren "to confuse, perplex"
, from PIE *wers- (1) "to confuse, mix up". Cognates suggest the original sense was "to bring into confusion."
[font style="font-family:papyrus,'Brush Script MT','comic sans MS',fantasy;" size=4 color=teal]Large scale military conflict? Don't People commit violence against one and another and kill each other in those?[/font]
[div class="excerpt" style="margin-left:1em; border:1px solid #bfbfbf; border-radius:0.4615em; box-shadow:3px 3px 3px #999999;"]violence (n.) Look up violence at Dictionary.com
late 13c., "physical force used to inflict injury or damage," from Anglo-French and Old French violence (13c.), from Latin violentia "vehemence, impetuosity," from violentus "vehement, forcible," probably related to violare (see violation). Weakened sense of "improper treatment" is attested from 1590s.
[font style="font-family:papyrus,'Brush Script MT','comic sans MS',fantasy;" size=4 color=teal]Physical force used to inflict injury. I don't see how this counters what I have said. If anything it seems to make the link stronger.[/font]
[div class="excerpt" style="margin-left:1em; border:1px solid #bfbfbf; border-radius:0.4615em; box-shadow:3px 3px 3px #999999;"]I don't expect it to change your mind, but you might come away with a little more understanding about lexicographical evolution and why your objection is rather silly.
[font style="font-family:papyrus,'Brush Script MT','comic sans MS',fantasy;" size=4 color=teal]Words can have long and complex histories, but that does not change what they mean currently how they are used by society in the here and now. Take the word "nice" for example:[/font]
http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=nice
[div class="excerpt" style="margin-left:1em; border:1px solid #bfbfbf; border-radius:0.4615em; box-shadow:3px 3px 3px #999999;"]nice (adj.) Look up nice at Dictionary.com
late 13c., "foolish, stupid, senseless," from Old French nice (12c.) "careless, clumsy; weak; poor, needy; simple, stupid, silly, foolish," from Latin nescius "ignorant, unaware," literally "not-knowing," from ne- "not" (see un-) + stem of scire "to know" (see science). "The sense development has been extraordinary, even for an adj." [Weekley] -- from "timid" (pre-1300); to "fussy, fastidious" (late 14c.); to "dainty, delicate" (c.1400); to "precise, careful" (1500s, preserved in such terms as a nice distinction and nice and early); to "agreeable, delightful" (1769); to "kind, thoughtful" (1830).
In many examples from the 16th and 17th centuries it is difficult to say in what particular sense the writer intended it to be taken. [OED]
By 1926, it was pronounced "too great a favorite with the ladies, who have charmed out of it all its individuality and converted it into a mere diffuser of vague and mild agreeableness." [Fowler]
"I am sure," cried Catherine, "I did not mean to say anything wrong; but it is a nice book, and why should I not call it so?"
"Very true," said Henry, "and this is a very nice day, and we are taking a very nice walk; and you are two very nice young ladies. Oh! It is a very nice word indeed! It does for everything." [Jane Austen, "Northanger Abbey," 1803]
[font style="font-family:papyrus,'Brush Script MT','comic sans MS',fantasy;" size=4 color=teal]"Militant" atheist is meant to be offensive and as a slur. It is meant to disparage and compare people being outspoken to extremist who use violence and intimidation to get their way. Just because someone is abrasive does not make using slurs against them okay even if you think they fit that word. [/font]