Religion as Citizenship and Letting Go

[Xyzse]

In study, I have checked out differing religions and tend to believe in the Law of Thermodynamics where energy does not disappear and we are all just energy coming from star dust. Meaning, we are all connected in some way and to hate on someone for thinking differently from me is counter-productive. It is best to improve on oneself and affecting the world should be through example rather than shoving ones opinion on to others.

Religion, to me is being part of a non-homogenous group which is akin to citizenship to a country at the least, and at the most, it is like being part of a family. Even in a group with unifying principles, individual beliefs are different. Most religions have varying sects with traditions and priorities of their own; then it could be even broken down to an individual basis. Which only leads me to one thing... I can not hold a person's religion, country, race, (politics) or whatever group they are a part of against them. I must base it on the individual and not condemn them for their relations, doing so would make me lose the chance for a connection or understanding.

So in regards to religion and the idea that it is like citizenship or being part of a family, I find these as a guide-line:

- Do Not Blame a Child for the Sins of the Father = Leadership of a group does not mean that people part of the group agrees with the ones at the top. I.E. When Bush was President, there are many things he has done that I can not condone and agree with.
- Do Not Ask them to Leave a Group Because of a Particular Issue = A group is not stuck with just one thing. There are positives and negatives to everything. One should not assume that an individual agrees with the stance of their group in regards to all issues. To paint them in a broad brush is being ignorant, insensitive and intolerant. I.E. The Catholic Church would be against condom usage, but most of them use them for safety and other varied reasons. Many feel conflicted about that, but it is their personal issue. People derive value in religion in different ways. Do not expect them to get rid of their family and social contacts just because of the faults of others.
- People have differing values, don't expect them to have the same reaction as you = Priorities are different, to limit oneself to only those with the same reactions places one in a bubble, creating a skewed view of the world.

I was just having a conversation on how some people go off on others and complains about how they were treated badly. They place themselves in a niche or as part of one group and act like they have a chip on their shoulder. Constantly worrying about other people's actions/reactions in relation to them, and finding fault at it when many times it is misconstrued. Like how some women would get upset when I open doors for them, please note that I open doors for everybody. It is just nice, though I must admit that doesn't happen much any more.

All I am saying is, out of all this, is that sometimes it is best not to take things personally. To let go, and accept people as they are without judging their actions as something that relates to you. It is accepting that the only change that one can do is on oneself, and by one's actions one can lead by example. Can't constantly worry about other people think or do and just be. We can go after the leadership and so forth, but on a person by person basis, we have different backgrounds and should be more accepting of diversity.

I apologize if this might be considered off topic. However, I just don't see the point of harping against someone who is part of any group due to what the leadership in the group does. They should be looked at as an individual and their actions.

[NRaleighLiberal]

1. From my experience, it is not correct to assume that people of particular religions even

understand what they are practicing. I know people that are religion X or religion Y because:

they grew up that way

or

their parents wanted them to join such and such a church when they got married

or

they met some friends that invited them to join such and such a church

or


it was convenient/close by

I've known people who attend church purely for the social aspect. Or for show. Or because of guilt. or...or....or....

So, right or wrong, appropriate or inappropriate, labeling all people of a particular faith with a particular judgment is just not valid. perhaps, when a particular faith is associated with something horrendous, the members should do a self check and determine why they still remain part of that faith. But in the real world, I am willing to bet that it just doesn't happen.

[Xyzse]

2. I agree!

I was talking to a Muslim girl who I hung out with for a bit.
She told me she didn't know that there were sects of Islam till she went to America.

Also, I completely agree with the last part. Being part of the Roman Catholic faith, I don't see myself engaged in it, nor do I do much with it. I mean, do I have to do a formal renunciation? I could care less.

Besides, why would I create drama with the elders of the family? I have to respect them too, even if I don't agree with them. Why should I challenge what they do, and just accept the good that they do irregardless of their beliefs.

[MADem]

12. George Bush didn't realize there were sects of Islam until after he started the war in Iraq!

And as anyone who is sentient knows, the sectarian tensions went on for decades, with a minority sect holding sway over a poorer (and more rapidly reproducing) majority sect. Talk about a recipe for disaster!

I know that Mormons who wear their beliefs lightly and regard the religion as more of a cultural thing than a religious imperative are called Jack Mormons...well I know more than a few Johnny Walker drinking, bacon munching "Jack Muslims" who value the cultural touchstones, the holidays, the feeling of closeness and community with family and friends, but who could really give a rat's patootie about what this Imam says or how the ulema think...and they most certainly don't interpret the Qu'ran literally.

Some people are completely comfortable identifying with the culture of a religion even as they are not "in good standing" with the strict theology of their faith. Of course, some faiths make it hard on people who take this approach to their religion, threatening to kick them out if they don't profess to follow every rule and believe every tenet. In these cases, I guess the "What they don't know won't hurt them" approach is probably the easier path, unless one is dedicated to being a public advocate for change!

[freshwest]

3. I agree. I joined this group not because I'm religious, but like respectful conversation.

[Xyzse]

4. That is all we can ask for.

[freshwest]

5. I spent a good deal of my life with religious people, and I miss them. I have informed them of my

changes of heart, they all accept it. But I can't be true to myself and go to church when I can't believe what the majority there believe, out of respect to them and to myself. I would be singing off key.

I don't consider myself lost or going to a bad place. I miss the joy of faith for the harsh things it helped me through. So many moments in which I was in truth, all alone, except for a belief there was a purpose. The nights where I waited for the next dawn, and needed assurance life was worth living.

I read the Bible for many years. Through its passion, poetry and logic, a part of me was animated to transcend and feel hope through the heart breaking things that happened and were still happening. There is much cruelty and injustice in this world that cannot be overcome in the physical realm.

I always prayed for understanding and growth. I was not a literalist and never agreed with all of it. I even went through a phase of saying, 'I will only read the words in red-letters!' which were from Jesus, as many other things offended me.

I don't feel the Bible has all the answers. The feeling that I was not living under some sort of judgement, just going on a journey, which millions before had gone, seeking their way, is something I do not judge anyone doing. I think it is not the conclusions that people reach, it what they are seeking to grasp.

I think this group is going to be a space for those like me to express themselves without having to defend our feeelings.

[Xyzse]

6. I sure hope so.

Thank you for your reply.

I was expecting to be blasted earlier.

[freshwest]

7. I agreed with all you said, it welcomed everyone, even such as myself. I think we're appropriate

to the purpose of the group:

The Interfaith Group is a "safe haven" group that provides opportunities for people of all faiths, spiritual leanings and non-belief to discuss religious topics and events in a positive and civil manner, with an emphasis on tolerance. Criticisms of individual beliefs or non-belief, or debates about the existence of higher power(s) are not appropriate in this group...

I'm going to go over your OP and think about what you said in the first paragraphs. It's difficult to express such thoughts but I felt that you did it well and with courage.

[lovemydog]

8. Very similar to my thoughts

In the past couple years, after losing my dog shortly after joining here, I yearned for more interaction with animals yet didn't want to get another dog (I'm enjoying the freedom of not having that constant responsibility). So I started volunteering at a horse shelter. Partly to get away from people. Seeing them come from wildly different backgrounds, I realize there is no way I can understand the hurt and pain (sometimes physical, often mental) that they've experienced. So I just try and take them as they are and don't even presume to know how much they've suffered. Both individually and collectively. This has helped with my patience toward people. Though I don't enjoy how harsh & judgmental they can be. I suppose this applies to myself too. But I'm working on it.

[Xyzse]

9. I volunteer at a German Shepherd Rescue

I run those dogs a few miles a piece.
I usually do at least 3 dogs on Saturdays when I have the chance.

I can definitely understand that.

[Meshuga]

10. Religion is linked to identity

And I will use Catholics as an example in this post since (in my perception) identity seems to be a big thing with Catholics.

I have a close Catholic friend who isn't much of a believer but (because of his upbringing) he got married in the church, his daughters were baptized, and he goes through the motions of holding some Catholic tradition.

While many Catholics may not agree with the Pope when it comes to gay rights, contraceptives, etc. they will still catch flak for being associated with the people they don't agree with in these issues.

I am sure many Catholics would love to see progressive changes but they can't leave the church because being Catholic is part of who they are. It's a pretty complicated situation.

[Xyzse]

11. I can agree with much of this

I too am Roman Catholic, but I am not much of a believer.

In many ways though I will adhere to the traditions, baptism, communion et.al. However, that is also very dependent on whomever I end up with, if I end up with any one.

You're right that it is part of identity. Which is why I tend to consider it as a kind of citizenship or being part of a family. Very complicated in the sense that there is much one can not agree with in it, but can't really just leave it lightly.

[Fortinbras Armstrong]

13. There is the issue of "once Catholic, always Catholic"

Essentially it means that someone who was brought up in the Catholic Church never really gets over it. The best example I can think of is actually not from Catholicism at all. I know a man who was brought up as an Orthodox Jew. As an adult, he has become an atheist. Yet, for example, he doesn't eat buttered bread with meat and won't touch pork or shellfish. He simply does not feel comfortable doing this. In this way, he is still a Jew, even though he does not believe in God. Similarly, Catholic attitudes towards things such as sin and guilt are not easily given up, even though one may have renounced one's membership in the Catholic Church.