Believers, what do you want from skeptics in the religion group?
What could they do that would make you feel like you and they are on the same side, if you don't currently feel that way?
= new reply since forum marked as read
in the religion group are not like that.
Talk to them. It can be challenging, delightful and really educational.
Cover those buttons of yours with duct tape! It works for everything.
The ones that don't engage with them are making their own choice not to associate with them.
I don't see anything wrong with that, and, in fact, it is another area of commonality.
Why show up? Because it can be a vibrant and positive place to have discussions about things that interest you.
If you feel some can not/will not/have no desire to change, then why engage with them at all?
Or just abandon it entirely, but I guess I am missing the point of complaining about it if you are not going to engage at all.
that I would consider at the heart for why "working together" may not happen, or will make it difficult to do so.
That is, the idea that it's okay to attack the belief because that's not the same as attacking the believer. The problem with that assumption is that the two are not separate. Honestly, I can't think of any believer that doesn't hold their belief close to their heart. It's as much a part of them as their blood is to their physical body.
I know this is probably a weak analogy, but it's the only one coming to mind to help explain this. But, let's say you decided to truly lay into the spouse of a couple very much in love. Not physically, but with a verbal attack of all the vitriolic and insulting tactics we've seen all too often laid against a belief. Do you think the other spouse would put up with that? Do you think it wouldn't hurt and enrage the other spouse? They are as intrinsically connected to each other as a believer is to their belief. They cannot be separated simply by the mind of the attacker.
Perhaps the attackers don't understand this concept, and I can understand that to a point. To ignore it if you do, though, is the epitome of nasty behavior. Yes, we are told all over to DU to "grow a thicker skin" yet personal attacks are against the SOP. So why are attacks against a believer's belief tolerated and not considered also against the SOP? As the belief cannot be separated from the believer, then that does become a personal attack.
I'm sure some will argue against this, but I think this is a valid observation and quite true for how some perceive, and then attack, believers. Although if anyone has a better analogy, please post it 
my "skin" isn't all that thick when it comes to the potential of having to debate religious and/or spiritual topics. I can taken on Texas-bashers until the end of Time, because most of them have never set foot inside the state and are just hating along with the rest of the haters.
But to go into Religion with this topic is not my idea of an enjoyable time. I do not have a problem, though, with you, or anyone else, taking my post and copying it or writing it out in your own words. I've read the thread (or most of it) that Htom started in Religion about getting along. And, as usual, there are several that are just plain obstinate and nasty to believers, seemingly because they can be that way without repercussions. I'm sensitive to such projections of negative emotional energy and would rather avoid it if I can.
I agree that there's gray area to this topic, and not all believers do hold their beliefs so close. But I think it's obvious around here who does and thus, how to approach them in discussion. Unfortunately, "respect" appears to be as vulgar a word to some of them as the insult of calling them "septics" instead of "skeptics/sceptics."
To answer your question directly, I do think it's worth discussion in Religion. I just won't be the OP 
(and I'm still up from last night, so I'm going to sleep for a bit, then I'm out for Mexican food and drink later 
)
She's a cook at the university here, and there are several events and conferences here during the summer.
The previous week, the Special Olympics was held here at ISU, and this last week, it was the 2014 World Finals of the Odysey of the Mind from May 28 to May 31.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Odyssey_of_the_Mind
My wife is a cook at ISU, and on Friday, one of the many volunteers (in this case, from some church in Des Moines) was working with my wife for this event. She repeatedly used the N-Word in front of my wife, which made her very angry and upset. While I can leave the Religion Forum (or indeed, all of DU if necessary) when such a thing happens, my wife unfortunately does not have this luxury when faced with the same behavior at work, since doing so would threaten her employment.
Fortunately, her boss telephoned the church in question, and informed them that this woman would not be allowed back in the kitchen at ISU from now on.
The Church agreed that this was extremely inappropriate and would not send her back.
I look forward to the day that ALL of my fellow atheists here at DU respond in a similar manner, rather than justifying and/or minimizing such behavior.
And I sincerely hope that those atheists here who do not support the use of the N-Word will forgive me for making such a broad statement, but I'm really feeling pissed about it this week.
On the bright side, lest I give the false impression that the woman who repeatedly used the N-Word in my wife's presence succeeded in ruining the entire day for her, here are a couple of photos of my wife and a student from Germany (from the Odyssey of the Mind) dancing with her in the dining room here at ISU that same day during work.
He gave his hat to my wife, and she still has it.
The world will go on, with or without those who persist in the use of such disgusting epithets, and those who defend such use.
They are the remnants of the past. We are ALL part of the future.
