I

[heaven05]

am losing my faith in some almighty creator of us when us is so fucked up. They devil makes us do it, huh? If you say so, I have to believe the holy book on that, right? This last few days of my life has been filled with more doubt at a good god then when in the 80's I was asked not to sit with my lady friend in church because of the fact that it upset some parishioners that she was of a different race than I. My mistake attending a southern baptist church. But anyway this verdict along with the evil I see in the world everyday on my computer from drug cartels in mexico cutting the heads off of women working for the rival cartel to babies torn and dead laying in the street in syria show me a real violent evil pervades the world. It is our nature. The devil? If you say so, but it just doesn't seem that simple. Maybe it is, I don't know. Just an off the cuff observation and comment.

[hrmjustin]

1. You have to be true and honest with yourself.

If your views are changing just see where it goes. As a person of faith I sometimes have moments where I have faith droughts.

[heaven05]

2. thank you

[hrmjustin]

3. Your welcome. This can be terrifying to some and liberating for others.

Just do what comes natural. Be true to yourself.

[Fortinbras Armstrong]

4. It's a very old question

King Alfonso X of Castile, called El Sabio -- "the Wise," said, "Had I been present at the Creation, I could have made a few suggestions for the better ordering of the universe."

God is omnipotent, all good, and all loving. Why, then, is there suffering and evil in the world?

The problem of evil only arises in a certain set of circumstances. If you believe in two gods, one good and one bad, there is no problem. Evil, in such a system, is as much a part of the show as good. The same is true if you believe that God made the world, not out of nothing, but out of some primeval matter he was stuck with. Then you can blame evil on the sleaziness of the raw materials and get God off the hook.

However, Christians believe that YHWH is the only God, that all things are created out of nothing, and that God delights in creation and finds it good. So, why is there evil? Moreover, there is not only evil, there is also "the problem of pain." Evil is those things which people do which are wrong: Pride, anger, envy, greed, lust, sloth, gluttony, etc. Pain is "the thousand natural shocks our flesh is heir to": Disease, tornadoes, man-eating-sharks.

The standard explanation of evil is that God allows us free will, so that we shall choose the good of our own accord, thus furthering God's glory. However, we have no real answer to the problem of pain. (One of my favorite science fiction stories is Poul Anderson's "The Problem of Pain." In it, Anderson posits a monotheistic alien race with a concept of God that answers the problem of pain, but cannot explain why there is evil.)

Some have said that God allows suffering to teach us lessons and make us better. Thus, we have disappointment to teach us perseverance, pain so we learn to keep our hands out of the fire, unkindness from others to help us grow in charity, and so on. The problem is the "and so on": Famine, to teach us what? Earthquakes, for what reason? Cancer, to improve us how? The whole bleeding, dying, screaming, lying, cheating, rotting carcass of the world to uplift us to what end?

This simply does not work. For a few great souls, poverty may be a blessing; for everyone else, it is a curse. Now and then, a terminal disease ennobles, most of the time, it is just rotten. God as a teacher who uses such methods makes him the warden of the worst run penitentiary of all. In his poem "East Coker," T S Eliot described this view:

The whole earth is our hospital
Endowed by the ruined millionaire,
Wherein, if we do well, we shall
Die of the absolute paternal care
Which does pursue us everywhere.

Scripture affirms sin as causing suffering, but it is not the sole cause. Suffering is a conflict between what is and what should be, sickness and health, failure and achievement, rivalry and love. At one level suffering simply describes the tensions that torture us in our attempts to be whole. The suffering caused by sin is aggravated by the conflict arising from self-centeredness, estrangement, and compromise of ideals. In any case, suffering has no value in itself. It is one thing to say that suffering shows the work of God; it is quite another to say that it has redemptive power itself.

The Bible makes it clear that God intends to exterminate suffering. We are called to repent and be saved from suffering. Christ came into the world to lay the foundation for a new kingdom, where "he shall wipe every tear from their eyes. Death will be no more; mourning and crying and pain will be no more." (Revelation 21:4)

For Christians, suffering remains impenetrable and incomprehensible, and provokes rebellion. Nor will the Christian blasphemously claim that God himself required Jesus’ death as compensation for what we make of our history. Suffering may be intrinsic to the human condition; but it is not inherent in the grand design God has for the universe. Given God as creator and shepherd, and given the divine presence in the world in the person of Christ, suffering of the innocent is unfathomable.

Even in their denials, skeptics sometimes show a better appreciation for the idea of God than do believers. Ivan in Dostoyevsky's Brothers Karamazov speaks forcefully to this effect. They take seriously the contradiction between a loving God and the reality of evil and pain. Believers do not always face the gulf between evil and pain and an all-powerful God. Reason fails before suffering and evil. All attempts to explain and interpret their existence, even in the context of Jesus' saving work, seem to treat evil on the same level as good, as if it had a right to exist. The proper reaction to suffering and evil is to offer resistance, to act in a way meant to turn history to good effect. The Scriptures do not explain suffering and evil, but call on Christians to resist it and eradicate its causes.

[heaven05]

5. thank you

makes me think. Need all the help I can find these days.