Religious-secular divide narrower than believed: Marmur

[rug]

Atheists seem to crave ‘religious’ access to healthy living as much as others.

By: Dow Marmur Columnist, Published on Mon May 27 2013

We didn’t have to wait for the recently published data in the 2011 National Household Survey to know that nowadays fewer people attend conventional religious services. Spokespersons for mainstream places of worship repeatedly report that their numbers are down and that they find it increasingly difficult to make ends meet.

For example, the combination of diminished attendance and reduced funds has forced several synagogues in the United States to amalgamate, even though they belong to different religious streams in Judaism. Economics trumps theology.

But that doesn’t mean that people are less religious, only that they’re not willing to participate in conventional public worship or affiliate with traditional institutions. Though they may still want the benefit of clergy for life cycle events like weddings and funerals, they don’t appear to need it for personal devotions or religious instruction. Places of worship seem to be more in demand for grand occasions than for regular services.

People today yearn for transcendence no less than earlier generations, but many resent being directed by pulpit and altar as to where and how to find it. Instead of submitting to traditional hierarchies, they want vibrant informal and democratic communities run by members, not gurus. They say they’re “spiritual, not religious,” even if in reality the distinction between the two isn’t always clear to them or to anybody else.

http://www.thestar.com/opinion/commentary/2013/05/27/religioussecular_divide_narrower_than_believed_marmur.html

[Manifestor_of_Light]

1. Why should I waste my time trying to talk to those who think I'm going to hell??

I'm not gonna bother.

[okasha]

3. No one here is going to tell you you're going to hell.

But you just might want to read the Group's SOP before posting further.

[Manifestor_of_Light]

4. I'm not talking about DU. I'm talking about real life.

You did not understand.

[cbayer]

6. The article is clearly not talking about those people.

[Manifestor_of_Light]

8. There's no interfaith outreach where I live.

It's "My way or you're going to hell."

[cbayer]

9. I've heard you say that before and it's too bad.

Did you ever find a U/U near you?

[kentauros]

10. I think the closest UU to her is here in Houston.

East Texas is pretty much bible-thumper territory. It is, however, one of the most beautiful parts of the state. Take a drive through it, but don't stop to talk to the locals

Although, with a little searching, I did find this one in Lufkin: http://www.tuuf.org/

[cbayer]

12. I went through there last month and it is beautiful.

But the radio?!?! OMG. That was truly frightening and I can see how it must be incredibly oppressive.

Still, we did wander through some times that seemed to have pockets of liberal/progressive people. Not a lot, mind you, but once in a awhile we found a coffee joint that seemed ok.

[kentauros]

13. East Texas must be changing in places.

I say that because in my search for UU churches I saw something about a controversy in Beaumont. Only, it wasn't the evangelists against the UU, but pagans! Normally, I wouldn't think pagans would ever let East Texas know they exist, but I guess it was all right in whatever problem it was those two groups were having. It just made me think that maybe there's still hope in seeing even rural Texas evolve for the better

What parts of East Texas did y'all drive through? I only know a little of it, such as MoL's little section.

[cbayer]

14. We drove from Austin up to a small town called Hemphill near the LA border.

I have family up there. We took the backroads, so got to see quite a bit of the area.

Clearly fundamentalist religion still has a tight grip on the area, as the road signs and radio confirmed. We even heard one preacher talking about how a woman should never be in any position where she has any authority over men, including within schools.

It took me a long time to digest that one and I was stunned.

[kentauros]

15. I wonder what that preacher would have thought of Margaret Thatcher!

Considering their politics were likely exactly the same.

I know of Hemhill, as a highschool friend lived there for a time. He's a physicist now. I thought maybe he was going to school there, but he may have just been working there for a while. I see, too, that Hemphill was the largest search area for the Shuttle Columbia. Did you see their memorial for that?

[cbayer]

16. I did not see the memorial but my sister in law has told me stories

of pieces falling from the sky.

I did pick up the local paper and found the story/pictures of donkey basketball hilarious!



One of the biggest problems up there is that there is virtually no opportunities for socialization outside of religious groups. That leads to a significant amount of social isolation for those who are unaffiliated.

As to Margaret Thatcher, I would venture a guess that most people in the area have little knowledge of the woman or her politics.

[kentauros]

17. I'm sure the locals have no clue of politics outside of this country,

just wondering what they'd have thought of Thatcher had they met her. Seems like it would have blown out of the water the idea that a woman could be above men. Not that Thatcher was a great politician, only that she'd be on about the same wavelength as East Texas with regards to oppressive political ideology.

I'm trying to remember if I've seen footage of donkey basketball. If so, it would have been on the wonderful show we had back in the 1970s, 80s, and 90s called The Eyes of Texas. Look it up on YouTube, especially the older versions with Ray Miller

I have had this vision for some time, further encouraged by the FCC's desire to make free broadband access to all Americans. That is, with the advent of such a plan, people could finally live literally wherever they wanted, telecommute to any place in the country, and revitalize rural American in ways unheard of now.

One huge influence would be on the local politics. Just think what that could do to all these isolated RW towns...

[hrmjustin]

11. I am so sorry to here that.

I don't believ in hell and I hate when people say to others they are going to burn in hell.

[Union Scribe]

2. Interesting article Rug, thanks for posting. nt

[pinto]

5. Interesting article. Hardly objective, imo, but a good read.

I like the cited Dworkin quote - “ The familiar stark divide between people of religion and without religion is too crude. Many millions of people who count themselves as atheists have convictions and experiences very like and just as profound as those that believers count as religious.”

And find the cited Hobson reference to 9/11 a little extraneous. Or too simplistic.

[cbayer]

7. Interesting times we live in.

The "nones" may be who save us all in the end.