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[billh58]

This message was self-deleted by its author (billh58) on Fri Mar 13, 2015, 04:35 AM. When the original post in a discussion thread is self-deleted, the entire discussion thread is automatically locked so new replies cannot be posted.

[Aristus]

1. Well said.

But the gun trollz are going to be here any minute now. Hope you have your outrage-armor on.

[guillaumeb]

2. The 2nd Amendment

Whenever I hear talk about 2nd Amendment "rights", I generally do not hear the speakers quote the Amendment in its' entirety. The very beginning words, that part about "A well regulated militia", are generally passed over in the hurry to get to the part about "shall not be infringed".
Why was the part about a well regulated militia even in the Amendment? Did the writers of the Constitution get paid by the word, or were they expressing a particular idea? Remember that the Constitution, for all you "original intent" types out there, did not and does not provide for a standing army. Thus the need for "a well- regulated militia" when defense became necessary, and thus the necessity that a military appropriations bill be included in every 2 year session of Congress.
Where is Justice Scalia, Mr. Original Intent himself, on this issue, and why does he not speak out and call for the disbanding of the American war machine? The war industry and the military apparatus must be abolished to fulfill the original intent of the Framers.

The second issue, the fear of your own government, is a mystery to me. If you elect your government, why do you fear it? The government, and all of its representatives at every level, is you. To paraphrase Jean Lesage, a Prime Minister of Quebec in the 1960's, the government is not an enemy among us. It comes from us, out of us. It does for all of us what we cannot do as individuals.

An excellent summary of right wing rhetoric about guns billh58, as well as the point that the NRA buys politicians from both sides of the aisle.

[jimmy the one]

5. hawk vs dove

guillaum: Where is Justice Scalia, Mr. Original Intent himself, on this issue, and why does he not speak out and call for the disbanding of the American war machine? The war industry and the military apparatus must be abolished to fulfill the original intent of the Framers.

Good post, guillaum, & why does scalia misrepresent 18th century writers so?;

are you Quebecois? paraphrase Jean Lesage, a Prime Minister of Quebec in the 1960's, the government is not an enemy among us. It comes from us, out of us. It does for all of us what we cannot do as individuals.

The right vs left mentality, a 'wolf' vs a montane of 'calm' --- riddle you that!

Also see this thread in this GCRA group, & welcome to here:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/12627918

[guillaumeb]

6. yes

My family immigrated to Quebec in 1600. The quote from Lesage also speaks, in part, to those Quebeckers who advocated for a separate nation. During the 1960's there was a group, the Quebec Liberation Front (FLQ) who advocated for a francophone nation. I understand the feelings, and their origin, but feel that the solution of separation would have been wrong.

Lesage's words could also speak to the Tea Party types who apparently feel that they can exist in a society of 350 million with no rules.

As to Scalia, the Romans had the phrase "cui bono", literally "to whom the good" but often loosely translated as "follow the money". Who benefits from the US war machine? Certainly not the soldiers who die, certainly not the nation that bankrupts itself paying for the machine.

Thank you for the link and thank you for the welcome. I have been reading the DU posts without speaking in the past.

[flamin lib]

3. The Second Amendment was NOT put there to let citizens over throw the government.

Article 3 section 3 defines treason as rebelling against the government. Period. Get over it.

There are a lot of historical possibilities for the Second and the mention of Militia, ranging from riding herd on the slaves to maintaining a reserve of highly trained cadre of officers to organize the citizenry if needed. None of the historians see overthrowing the government as part of the Second.

Besides, it can't possibly happen. For reference see David Koresh and Ruby Ridge. These debacles of would be militia extremists were defeated by relatively low order paramilitary police forces. Can you imagine Open Carry Tarrant County going up against the Marine First Expeditionary Force?

This foolishness is nothing more than penis flailing by a tiny lunatic fringe of gun owners.

[guillaumeb]

4. tiny lunatic fringe

Good point about the "Red Dawn" fantasists with their vision of rebellion against the faceless government thugs in the black helicopters.
The last sentence could also describe the American war machine. A tiny lunatic fringe of war profiteers and strutting, macho politicians acting like warriors and trying to stampede the country into endless military adventurism. War and violence are huge industries, with huge profits to the owners.