I got this email about the 2nd Amendment from a Home Owner Association perspective. I am on a HOA

[upaloopa]

board of directors.

I am not going to attend this webinar but I find it disturbing that we have to cater to gunners rather than just restrict the presence of guns in our common areas.

http://www.magnetmail.net/actions/email_web_version.cfm?recipient_id=1573342397&message_id=5835942&user_id=cainst&group_id=1169565&jobid=21911788

snip:

The Second Amendment right to bear arms has become a subject of hot debate in recent months. Two attorneys discuss the issues involved in a community association's commitment to residents' safety and the presence of legal firearms in the community.

Topics

What liability does the association have to owners with respect to restricting, or failing to restrict, carrying guns in common areas?
What are the Second Amendment protections regarding an individual’s right to bear arms in a community association?
How can associations protect residents against disgruntled owners who may commit violent acts with firearms?

[hlthe2b]

1. If someone brought a gun into my house, I would assume they intended to shoot me...

I would act accordingly (consider any or all of the following: sneak off to call police, grab my pepper spray, hold it into their face and demand they leave immediately).

I absolutely DO NOT think carrying one into a public store, restaurant, meeting or elsewhere should be any different.

Does anyone honestly believe someone carrying a gas tank and matches--or a hand grenade-- would be allowed into a public venue? Wht the hell is the difference?!

[elleng]

2. Unless the Community has a constitution with a Second Amendment,

there is no such 'freedom' or obligation in common areas: Its private property.

[upaloopa]

3. The problem we are having is tea party types

who project their anti government attitude onto the HOA. We had a guy last week who came to our meeting and spent a half hour telling us he doesn't believe he has to obey the CC&Rs that he agreed to obey when he bought the house. He refused to pay HOA dues until a lien was placed on his house. Now he ripped up all the grass to put in rocks without submitting a plan. He posted a profane sign on the HOA president's house after scaring the shit out of the president's wife and kid by loudly pounding on the door.
So he could be a gunner and come after us with his gun next.

[elleng]

5. Sounds like he doesn't respect contracts.

I hope someone, maybe y'all, will impress upon him the importance of CONTRACTS, part of the American and capitalist way, and in fact, a MANDATORY part of our civilization.

About threats with guns I have nothing to say, really, as I disagree with the Supreme's interpretation of the 2d Amendment. Best of luck to you all.

[Wellstone ruled]

4. This is one of the new battle grounds for the

TeaBillies. Heard these stories more and more in the last couple of years. Yes,some of the CC&R's seem harsh,but,we knew that coming in. Like the security and the fact that when you come home from a trip,the house next door isn't painted some really sick color. Been there and done that. We have a rule no firearms permitted in our club house. All HOA meetings are in the Club House. We have a retired Police Chief on our board and he does not have time for the Gun Nutter crowd.

[ncjustice80]

6. Any communities put an outright ban on on guns?

As in, as part of HOA regulations no resident is allowed to keep a dangerous device like a firearm in their household? I would *love* something like that!

[GGJohn]

7. No, unconstitutional.

HOA's can't violate an enumerated right, the 2A.

[ncjustice80]

8. A private entity absolutely can if its in the HOA agreement you sign.

They can tell you how many people you can have in your home, where to park, whether or not you can display a flag, how high your grass is, and what color your home is. There is no reason they, as a private entity, require a no firearms clause as part of the contract you sign to live there.

[GGJohn]

9. Those are not rights,

owning a firearm is a right and HOA's cannot ban them from your home.

Why do you think no HOA has done so yet? Because they know they would lose in court, that would be a case the NRA would love to take to court.

[ncjustice80]

10. 1st Amendment buddy. Those are rights.

Once again, the second amendment applies only to the government. I can restrict firearms from my business. There is no reason an HOA couldnt include it in their covenant.

[GGJohn]

11. 2nd Amendment buddy. That is a right also.

Yes, you can ban a firearm in your business, or your home, that's your right, but an HOA cannot ban firearms in an owners home, period, and if some HOA tried that, they'd be sued so quickly by the GOA, NRA, SAF, it would make their head spin, and the HOA would lose in court.

Why do you think no HOA has tried that yet? Probably because they're lawyers told them it's illegal to do so and they would lose in court.

[ncjustice80]

13. So your are saying they cam infringe in 1st amendment but not the 2nd?

Lol OOOOOOKkkkkkkk.

[GGJohn]

14. Pure and simple,

an HOA cannot tell a homeowner what they can have or have not in their home as long as it's legal.

[ncjustice80]

15. If the homeowner signs the covenant, yes they can. Pure and simple.

Thye are not the government, constitition does not apply.

[GGJohn]

16. HOA's cannot supersede the Constitution nor state law,

simply put, HOA's cannot ban the possession of firearms inside one's home, but if you insist on your fantasy, I can't help you.

[ncjustice80]

17. The Constitution limits GOVERNMENT power.

But if you want to live in your fantasy I can t help you.

[GGJohn]

12. One other thing,

an HOA cannot dictate what someone has in their home, it just can't do so, despite how much you wish it could.

[Glassunion]

18. It is difficult inside of a home.

IIRC it was tried in a location or two (Nashville TN rings a bell), but was dropped before it made it to court. Since there is no case law, it's difficult to say.

I believe that there was another case where an HOA came up with a rule against the buying or selling of firearms anywhere on their property when they found that one homeowner was running his website from within his home. I'm unsure if there were any physical firearms on the property or if it was simply a case of the website being run from within.

Most of the homeowner's agreements deal primarily with the outside and structure of the home/condo. My own has rules against operating a business from within the property (which I don't wholly agree with, however I was out of town during that vote). But the agreement cannot invalidate state/federal property rights.