Missouri murder rate increases 16% after Permit to Buy

[flamin lib]

law repealed.

http://www.columbiatribune.com/news/crime/study-ties-law-s-repeal-to-more-gun-homicides-in/article_35ef6912-a10b-11e3-a231-10604b9f6eda.html

[billh58]

1. Red states with lax gun laws = more gun violence

Typical right-wing NRA puppet talking point:

State Sen. Brian Munzlinger, R-Williamstown, sponsored the amendment to the bill that repealed the background check. He said last week he hadn't heard of the study and couldn't comment much on it, but he said it "doesn't sound very factual" and added a permit-to-purchase law wouldn't be much of a deterrent.

"Criminals know how to evade the law anyway," he said.

From the link in the OP

Yes, criminals do know how to evade the law, but now they don't even need to "evade the law" because it has been repealed. Right-wing logic boggles the mind, and the NRA/ALEC/Koch Brothers gun lobby makes tons of money based on that fact. A few bucks here, and a few bucks there, and Presto! -- more guns = more murder and gun violence, which equates to more profits for the death merchants.

[Hoyt]

2. I see one of the Gungeon gun fanciers is claiming his research trumps Johns

Hopkins' researchers. LMAO. You think Teddy Nugent, and similar gun lovers/promoters, helped him reach his conclusions?

[Jgarrick]

3. Why don't you ask him?

You think Teddy Nugent, and similar gun lovers/promoters, helped him reach his conclusions?

Did Leland Yee help you reach yours?

[Hoyt]

4. Can't. They banned me from posting in their merry little group.

Proud to say. However, you appear to be friendly with the the gun fondlers.

[Jgarrick]

5. Good thing that isn't done here, eh?

However, you appear to be friendly with the the gun fondlers.

I'm a friendly sort of guy.

[Hoyt]

6. Yeah, most people who strap a gun on before venturing out into public are, or

so they tell us.

[Jgarrick]

7. You may have a point there...guys like this:

Don't strike me as overly friendly.

[billh58]

8. Are you enjoying

your resurrection? You do seem to have learned how to dance around the SOP of this Group in this incarnation however, so enjoy your stay Bubba.

Edit: In regards to your snarky picture post above, those guys are paid to "strap on a gun," and are not wannabe vigilantes.

[Jgarrick]

12. You seem to think I have a secret identity...so tell me:

In regards to your snarky picture post above, those guys are paid to "strap on a gun,"

So are these guys:



Friends of yours, I take it?

[billh58]

13. No, your identity is no

secret to many of us Bubba...

[Jgarrick]

15. Wow...*many* people know my identity!

So what is it? How does that phrase go? Put up or....something or other.

[Hoyt]

11. Nor do gun fanciers with their militia buddies and confederate flags.

[Jgarrick]

14. Given that I've never knowingly met a militia member or someone sporting a Confederate flag,

I am forced to defer to your experience in interactions with such people.

[Hoyt]

16. If you are a gun fancier, I find that very hard to believe. Guess you are not familiar

with NRA board members like Teddy Nugent.

[Jgarrick]

17. Never met the man.

Have you?

[Hoyt]

18. You are just dodging. I'd suggest you'll be more comfortable with Gungeoneers talking

about your weapons of choice for various highly unlikely encounters with scary people, appreciation for stand your ground laws, and the like.

[Jgarrick]

23. While I do like the Gungeon, I'm quite comfortable here as well.

I try to get along with everyone.

I don't always succeed, but I do try.

[billh58]

19. I have a question for you Bubba:

Last edited Sun Mar 30, 2014, 08:31 PM - Edit history (1)

How do any of your posts to this Group contribute to "discussing how to enact progressive gun control reform?" That is a quote from the SOP for this Group, and nothing that I've seen from your postings in this Group so far are anything but derisive of gun control, and attempts at disruption.

If you have nothing to post about how to enact progressive gun control reform, I suggest that you contain your snarky posts to the RKBA Group where you may post anti-gun control screeds to your heart's content.

[Jgarrick]

22. You do? Good for you! But you haven't answered *my* questions yet, have you?

If you simply ignore my questions and keep throwing out your own, that's not a conversation, is it?

Here they are again:

You seem to think I have a secret identity...so tell me: Who am I?

Also: Given that you have justified people being armed when they are paid to "strap on a gun" (your words, not mine), do you in fact defend the arming of Blackwater mercenaries? If not, how is that consistent with your previous statement?

Now, if you can find it in yourself to answer these questions in a polite, restrained manner, we can continue to converse. If, on the other hand, you simply want to make snarky insults ("Bubba"? Really?), then I'm afraid you're in contravention of the SOP of this group, and should contain your posts to other forums, and not continue to disrupt this one.

[billh58]

24. Nice try Bubba.

[billh58]

35. I apologize for not being

able to say goodbye properly. Goodbye...

[Deep13]

29. Me neither, come to think of it.

I am aware that such folks exist, but I do not know for sure if I have ever met one, apart from Civil War reenactors.

[billh58]

9. You think that you're being clever,

but your anti-gun control bias is showing Bubba.

[billh58]

10. Yep, they have a few

legal "experts" over there who lecture on the meaning of court rulings on all gun matters -- especially how rulings unfavorable to the NRA are not really what they appear, and are actually a boost for the right-wing gun lobby.

[billh58]

20. As usual with Second Amendment absolutists

they are attempting to skew the discussion with cherry-picked half-truths. They are referring to a decline in the overall homicide rate, whereas the referenced report specifically refers to an increase in "gun homicides."

While overall violent crime is decreasing nationwide (a debunked NRA talking point: "more guns = less crime&quot , gun violence rates (including gun homicides and suicides) remain steady, and are slightly increasing in areas where sane gun laws have been relaxed by the corrupt influence of right-wing gun lobby.

Gun deaths are on track to exceed automobile deaths by next year, but the NRA/ALEC/Koch Brothers right-wing gun lobby ignores that fact, and lobbies against any scientific research into the gun violence epidemic in this country.

[Hoyt]

21. Now, I see the Gungeoneers are proclaiming their support for Zimmerman in their attempt to defend

their gun love and credentials compared to Johns Hopkins researchers. Next, they'll be telling us JH's researchers don't know gun nomenclature, as if that makes any difference.

[billh58]

25. There are a few Second Amendment absolutists and NRA apologists

who have defended and supported Zimmerman since before the sham trial. Their motto: "If you're a gunner, you're good to go."

[Deep13]

27. since laws and ideas are made of words...

...nomenclature is actually pretty important.

[Hoyt]

32. Not really. Magazine or clip, doesn't matter because they both hold and feed ammo.

As far as defining "assault weapon," just restrict all semi-autos to one per gun fancier. I mean dang, the gun fanciers and manufacturers are the one who try to live with the spirit of the law. They gotta have a bunch of menacing weapons to fondle. Don't you find that a bit sick?

BTW, I see from your posts below that you have a refreshing attitude toward gunz not often exhibited by most in the gun culture who espouse Molon Labe, or some such BS.

I mean dang, these guys clearly aren't well meaning gun owners --

[Deep13]

26. NEVERMIND

I guess the study demonstrates causation.

[Deep13]

28. I am not willing to let people die for my hobby.

I really enjoy shooting. I shoot paper targets at controlled ranges and it is a lot of fun. I hope I never have to give it up, but if there are some guns or accessories I can no longer own because of the public danger private ownership creates, well then that's how it has to be. No one should have to go to school worrying if some asshole is going to show up and murder a bunch of folks. So I support gun control hoping to end the violence. Hopefully, if banning the most destructive weapons eliminates the violence, then there will be no need to go after sporting guns. If I can only load ten rounds at a time, well it's not like paper targets put up much of a fight.

[billh58]

31. Thank you for your

Thank you for your civility, and for your understanding of the need for sensible gun control legislation in the interest of public safety. None of the Groups listed in the pinned post at the top of this thread are advocating "confiscation" of legal weapons. There are mixed messages and feelings about so-called 'assault weapons," and the arguments on both sides have merit.

The right-wing gun lobby fronted by the NRA has only one goal: to sell more guns. To do that their marketing model is the elimination of any and all sane gun laws nationwide.

[Deep13]

33. They don't care who buys them.

If gun makers can sell to Mexican drug lords at gun shows, they will do it and in fact they are doing it.

[deathrind]

30. I need a gun to...

Protect myself from a gun. The circular logic of that argument shows the depth of cognitive dissonance employed on this subject.

[billh58]

34. For clarification;

From an earlier article from Raw Story:

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2014/02/17/study-missouri-murders-spike-after-state-repeals-gun-background-check-law/

“Coincident exactly with the policy change, there was an immediate upward trajectory to the homicide rates in Missouri,” Webster told BBC. “That upward trajectory did not happen with homicides that did not involve guns; it did not occur to any neighbouring state; the national trend was doing the opposite – it was trending downward; and it was not specific to one or two localities – it was, for the most part, state-wide.”

Second Amendment absolutists are quick to point out that the overall homicide rate in Missouri (and the nation) declined, but ignore the fact that the homicide rate involving guns did, in fact, increase in Missouri. Statistics indicate that gun violence and gun homicide rates remain fairly steady, or are on the increase in some areas where gun laws have been relaxed.

[billh58]

36. K&R! n/t