Gun-control groups push for more laws in NY

[mwrguy]

NY is heading in the right direction.

On the one-year anniversary of the SAFE Act, the groups and Democratic lawmakers said New York shouldn't stop at the law passed last year.

State Legislators Against Illegal Guns-NY said it wants the Legislature to pass bills that would require additional safety storage of guns if the owners have children, require all semi-automatic handguns to have a feature that puts a code on each spent shell casing, called microstamping, and limit buyers to one handgun purchase a month.

“While some seek to go backwards and undo the SAFE Act -- and make it legal once again, for example, to sell guns to strangers with no questions asked, or to have guns with 30-round ammunition magazine -- we’re taking our next steps forward to prevent gun violence without undue restrictions on responsible gun owners,” said Assemblyman Brian Kavanagh, D-Manhattan, who co-chairs the group, in a statement.

Gun-control groups also want a law that would give police the right to remove firearms from the scene of a domestic-violence dispute. Other proposals would ban the sale of certain high-power .50 caliber rifles and require dealers to report to police when failed a background check shows a banned person tried to buy a gun.

http://www.ithacajournal.com/article/20140115/news10/301150038/gun-control-groups-push-more-laws-ny?nclick_check=1

[rdharma]

1. The reporting requirement on failed background checks is a good idea! nt

[Hoyt]

2. Gunners will be here to tell us how microstamping doesn't work in every case, and

people can defeat the system; it wears off; criminals will get casings at gun ranges and use them to frame so-called responsible gun owners; criminals can collect casings; Massad Ayoob and the bigoted NRA Prez Big Jim Porter says microstamping is very bad; and similar gun fancier BS.

Fact is, if it helps identify the perp -- or where a gun came from -- in only a small percentage of cases, it's worth it.

I'm convinced gun fanciers are opposed to microstamping because they can see themselves pulling a Zimmerman, not being able to find the casing, running away, and getting identified later. It's all BS, and responsible gun owners should have no problem with trying microstamping, even if refinements need to be made in the future.

[billh58]

3. The Second Amendment

absolutists want a completely anonymous system of gun ownership so that the mean old "government" can't trace guns back to their owners. According to the gun lobby extremists this would lead to a national registry, which would inevitably lead to mass confiscation just like Hitler conducted (snort...).

Most Americans, including rational gun owners, welcome gun regulations that make our society safer and saner. The very vocal Second Amendment absolutist minority of gun worshipers, not so much. Their war with an imagined tyrannical Federal Government is very real to them, and they are extremely serious about the cold-dead-hands NRA mantra. They are armed and very, very dangerous. They are able to pass background checks because bigotry, hatred, and an obsession with guns are not usually recorded anywhere -- bless their hearts.

[Hoyt]

4. Last sentence is really funny, but so true.

"They are able to pass background checks because bigotry, hatred, and an obsession with guns are not usually recorded anywhere -- bless their hearts."

[bobclark86]

5. New York already tried tracking casings... it WAS called CoBIS.

... the system in New York required every new handgun to come pre-fired from the factory and the casings were put in a database like fingerprints.

Thirteen years and $46 million later, there were exactly two "hits," and NEITHER ONE led to a conviction. That's why a pro-gun RKBA-supporting governor killed it two budgets ago.

Oh, wait... That was Andrew Cuomo.

I'm opposed to microstamping and CoBIS for the same reasons Andrew Cuomo killed CoBIS -- because it doesn't work, can be defeated with a nail file or a rock (or using a revolver that doesn't spray casings everywhere... like half of all criminals already use), and the cost to maintain the system (and I'm not even touching the cost to convert more than 2 million handguns) would be astronomical.

"Responsible gun owners should have no problem with trying microstamping, even if refinements need to be made in the future."

It'll be just like CoBIS. $46 million that could have been spent on teachers and programs for at-risk children. $46 million in economic incentives for manufacturers to stay, so laid-off factory workers don't have to make meth to put food on their tables.

"Fact is, if it helps identify the perp -- or where a gun came from -- in only a small percentage of cases, it's worth it."

What if it doesn't, as CoBIS showed after more than a decade?

But because I point out how NYS ALREADY TRIED THIS AND IT FAILED, I'll be labeled an absolutist... even though I support high-capacity magazine bans; universal background checks, while requiring all states to report ALL disqualifying information; safe storage requirements for families with prohibited persons or small children; holding straw purchasers responsible for crimes committed (like a murder charge for a murder weapon); and actually TAKING guns from prohibited persons (something right now not actually done in most places); and about a dozen other ideas.

You know, things that will actually WORK and won't get scrapped the next time the state is looking for $400 toilet seat orders to cancel.

EDIT: Forgot a few things.

1) Cuomo is up for re-election in November. He needs at least SOME of upstate to win. As 52 of 62 counties (and 52 of the 54 counties considered Upstate) voted for resolutions calling for the repeal of the SAFE Act -- including several controlled by Democrats -- you see how more gun control right now may be a problem for his chances.

2) These bills are put up every legislative session -- even when CoBIS was in place. They won't get out of committee in the Senate, as the GOP senators who voted for the SAFE Act are terrified of getting primaried/shot by crazy tea baggers (there's been bricks and vandalism after it passed last year).

[Hoyt]

6. Microstamping has been improved since then, plus if some "law-abiding" gun fancier files off

mechanism and police inspect his gun, whoops he ain't law-abiding anymore and should lose his right to own a gun.

Will be easier to identify some folks who are criminally inclined. Oh look, Mr. "Law-abiding" gun owner, why did you file off the microstamping mechanism. Do you think you might pull a Zimmerman?

Besides, who says we can't afford $46 million (if that was actual number) to help stop some gun crimes, and put a damper on gun fanciers' arming up.

Make those who think they need umpteen guns pay for it. They are the ones causing part of the problem.

[billh58]

7. Microstamping won't work because

the ALEC/Koch Brothers supported NRA says it won't work. We need to come up with something that WILL work, like issuing guns and ammunition to all white males over the age of nine, and deputizing them.

[Hoyt]

8. Billh58, you are on a roll today.

?w=479

[billh58]

9. Absolute

pillars of society these fine upstanding gentlemen are -- absolutely. The Second Amendment absolutely stands for "everything we care about," and a way to permanently eradicate those things (people, religions, ethnicities, races, commies, Liberals, etc.) that we hate.

Guns are the only thing that can make all good men absolutely equal, and with the help of the NRA and its gun manufacturer sponsors, the South will absolutely rise again.

[bobclark86]

10. Not really...

"They are the ones causing part of the problem."

You honestly have no idea what you're talking about, do you?

Guy getting pissed and shooting someone over texting in a theater? George Zimmerman shooting a kid after calling 911? Guy walks into a school and shoots 26 people? The 2 out of every 3 firearms-related deaths where the shooter is also the victim?

NONE of those are the kinds of crime you need microstamping to solve. Your Zimmerman fantasy always sticks around because they think they are doing the right thing. You don't need to track casings to figure out who did it, they'll fucking brag about it.

You know what kinds of crimes are potentially solved by such technology? Drug deals gone bad. Burglaries. Robberies. Drive-by shootings. Crimes where the criminal are gone by the time the cops show up.

THOSE are the people who don't stick around. Coincidentally, they get 80 percent of their firearms to use in crime are bought from friends and family, or from an illegal source -- very few are bought new and used for crime by the original owner (Check with the FBI for all the details).

The people that, IF they had a gun with microstamping actually linked to them, they'll file the info off.

Yes, CoBIS did cost $46 million, according to state officials. Google is your friend.

[Hoyt]

11. Or some gun lover selling them in back alley for a fistful of cash.

Of microstamping helps occasionally, it's worth it.

You even admit certain types of crimes would be solved. I also think it will help prove how many so - called responsible, law-abiding gun owners are not.

[bobclark86]

12. Umm... no, I didn't.

Try reading what I wrote again. The crimes where you CAN use it for evidence are ones that the probability of having an intact mark actually connected to the shooter are very, very low.

Also, try looking up the history of CoBIS. More than 60,000 firearms in the database. Thousands of searches. Two hits. No convictions. A former attorney general axed the program. Microstamping had been thrown out as recently as last year and shot down.

This ain't CSI where looking at a casing for 30 seconds gets you a conviction. The real world is a hell of a lot more complicated.

And yeah, there are probably a few assholes who aren't planning on shooting up a 7-Eleven who would file down their microstamping just to be dicks. IF such a thing goes through -- and judging by the Legislature's utter lack of willingness to put in microstamping for the last 20 years, PLUS the need to get re-elected ANYWHERE upstate, that is a very big IF -- yeah, I hope they get nailed to the wall for it.

[Hoyt]

13. Well, Bob, I believe you said this in Post #10:

"You know what kinds of crimes are potentially solved by such technology? Drug deals gone bad. Burglaries. Robberies. Drive-by shootings. Crimes where the criminal are gone by the time the cops show up."


Seems good to me. And, I think it will help determine where guns used in crimes came from, and catch the Zimmermans who try to get away. It will also cut down on sales of semi-autos.

What's it gonna hurt? Maybe microstamping will help make gun fanciers responsible like they keep saying they are.

[billh58]

14. The NRA "force" is

strong in this one. The argument that we must abandon the fight for any and all gun control measures in order to win elections is a Koch Brothers/ALEC inspired NRA mantra repeated by those who actually believe the right-wing lies and misinformation.

[Hoyt]

15. Exactly. I believe members of gun culture are opposed to microstamping is they know

the day could come where they shoot an innocencet person - maybe not premeditaed - and need to get away. They take courses that teach them what to say to law enforcenent if they shoot someone. Hell, I've seen them give each other tips in the Gungeon.