Cross-post from GD: London: a case study in the effectiveness of gun control.

[DanTex]

I just posted an OP in GD which compares homicide rates in London versus the US. The statistics are pretty staggering. London, with all of its ethnic diversity, crime, poverty, gangs, etc., has a lower homicide rate than any city in the US with population over 250K. This includes places like Virginia Beach, which has 3X higher homicide rate than London.

Really, all the talk about "root causes" is pure distraction. Yes, there are many factors that affect crime rates, but gun availability has a dramatic effect on lethality of crime and on homicide.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022840855

[freshwest]

1. Wow: 'Virginia Beach, which has 3X higher homicide rate than London.'

London is densely populated with many nooks and crannies where lots of things can happen. It's so crowded, I've even seen pictures of dividing lines on the sidewalks!

There are so many people in a small area, there's little parking if any, and the city needs the famous London Underground to transport all those people. I can't picture Virginia Beach having those kinds of problems.



Virginia Beach looks nice, like an upscale resort town on a beach, of course. What a lovely area. If the people in can't get along in an environment like that, well, that's not typical resort town behavior. So why are they killing each other?

Looks like too many guns floating around is the reason why, unless someone comes up with another rationale. I've never been there, only passed through Virginia a couple of times.

Thanks for the crosspost, DanTex.

[Paladin]

2. Nice find, DanTex. Very compelling. (nt)

[jimmy the one]

3. Medical costs firearm injury, UK v US

USA- Gunshot wounds drive up govt healthcare costs .. (USA) Miller calculated costs to society of shooting injuries and deaths .. "in 1994, the costs of drunk driving were substantially higher, but it has reversed."
.. Miller found that total costs per injury at least doubled {from 1992} or come close for medical care, psychiatric care, court cases, insurance, emergency transport.. in 1992, medical care for a fatal shooting averaged $14,500. In 2010, $28,700.
.. He found that medical care in 2010 cost $3.2 billion for 105,177 deaths and injuries. In 1992, medical care cost $3 billion for 171,800 deaths and injuries, including 31,674 BB gun shootings, which were not included in the 2010 numbers.

Accdg govt statistics analyzed by Miller.. costs to govt 2010:
$5.4 billion tax revenue due lost work .. $4.7 billion court costs
$1.4 billion Medicare and Medicaid costs firearm injuries and deaths - Medicaid covers 28% of hospital admissions for firearm injuries, 37% of hospital days and 42% of medical costs- {42% x $3.2b = $1.4b};
$180 million mental health care costs for gunshot victims
$224 million insurance claims processing .. $133 million responding to shooting inj
http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2013/03/04/gunshot-wounds-medicaid-insurance-costs/1956445/

Compare to United Kingdom, UK: With the exception of NIreland, it has been public policy that police officers in the United Kingdom should not generally be armed with firearms. Shooting fatalities of members of the police are extremely rare; there were three in England & Wales {UK} in the 11-year period from 2000/01 to 2010/11 - Plus 2 women bobbies ambushed last year iirc.

similar cost in UK to US per gunshot injury: ..with average medical cost of treating a stab or gunshot victim rising to £38,500..{~$20,000 or so, compared to US $28,700. http://www.standard.co.uk/lifestyle/london-life/knifings-gunshot-wounds-and-other-emergencies--its-all-in-a-days-work-at-the-royal-london-hospital-7935756.html

Figures provided by the Home Office for England and Wales show that in 2007/08 there were 455 serious or fatal injuries as a result of gun crime, a drop of 3% on the previous year. Gun crime is recorded as 0-3% of all reported crime (UKHome Office 2007).http://nursingstandard.rcnpublishing.co.uk/archive/article-emergency-care-of-patients-with-gunshot-wounds There would also be an additional 100 or so for firearm suicide & accidents.

I can't find exact comparison nor even a single UK report on annual med costs for firearm injury, but, with the above info - 500 serious or fatal GSW injuries x `$25,000 per injury = $12.5 million dollars roughly for UK med treatment, subject to large moe, granted.
.. then comparatively (& tentatively):
US: medical care in 2010 cost $3.2 billion for 105,177 {firearm} deaths & injuries
UK: medical care 2007/08 cost less than $0.1 billion, for between 500 - 1,000 gunshot deaths & injuries ($12m is 0.012 billion dollars).
I peg it about 70 times more for gunshot medical treatment in the US than in UK. All the while the nra fearmongers how much worse violent crime is in it's 'London Burning' propaGUNda film.