Murder Weapons 2011

[Scuba]

[russ1943]

1. The percentages are probably accurate and informative.

FYI, the FBI’s UCR informs us that in 2011, an estimated 14,612 persons were murdered in the United States. http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2011/crime-in-the-u.s.-2011/violent-crime/murder

[GreenStormCloud]

2. Also from the FBI statistics page.

http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2011/crime-in-the-u.s.-2011/tables/expanded-homicide-data-table-8

Total Murders
2007.......2008.......2009........2010.......2011
14,916....14,224....13,752......13,164....12,664

Total NICS checks: http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/nics/reports/total-nics-background-checks-1998_2013_monthly_yearly_totals-033113.pdf
2007.............2008..............2009..............2010..............2011..............2012
11,177,335....12,709,023.....14,033,824.....14,409,616.....16,454,951.....19,592,303

Notice the trend? Murders are trending down, while at the same time gun sales are trending up.
Since 1998, there have been 167,488,942 NICS checks. That's a lot of gun sales in 15 years.

Take a look at the percentage of type of gun breakdowns. Only 323 (That 2.55%) were committed by all types of rifles combined.

[flamin lib]

3. And your point is what? That a mere 6000+ from guns

(considering 68% murders are from guns) down from just over 7000+ is grounds for selling without a background check?

Go back to the gungeon and revel in the echo chamber.

[GreenStormCloud]

4. Actually, I supported the recent senate bill for background checks.

Almost (not quite all) gun crimes are committed by illegal gun owners. We should make it more difficult for a known criminal, especially a violent one, to get a gun.

BTW - I didn't intend to post in this forum. I generally read only, when I am here. I forgot which forum I was in and posted, thinking I was in RKBA. Sorry to upset you with facts.

[flamin lib]

5. Your "facts" would be relevant IF more househods owned guns

but gun ownership/household is down. Fewer owners with more guns.

It's a case of the gun lobby exploiting tragedies like Sandy Hook to scare the simpleminded into purchasing their product.

Who needs 15 AR15s? Not a collector's item, not good for hunting compared to much less expensive, more effective rifles and not worth a damn for home defense. Yet here in Texas I know of more than one. A friend missed a house payment to pay $1200 for an AR that a month earlier sold for $599.

Nope, just a bunch of easily duped paranoids susceptible to the gun lobby fear mongering.

[GreenStormCloud]

6. The U.S. does not have a Dept. of Needs.

There are people who spend too much on cars, boats, entertainment electronics, etc.

There are no solid statistics on how many households have guns. There were some telephone surveys some years ago, but their accuracy is questionable. How many folks would truthfully tell a stranger on the phone that they had guns? I would not.

[Robb]

7. I was going to remind you that the wounding rate is up

...that fewer people are dying from more gunshot wounds, that it's particularly well documented and that I believe we've even had this discussion before.

Then I asked myself why I should have to argue with anyone about the foundational understandings of this group? You're actually arguing that more guns are not a problem!

Do you have any interest in supporting the goals of progressive gun control groups, or are you here to attempt to get a rise out of gun control supporters?

[Electric Monk]

11. Robb, you know it's the latter. You're talking to a guy who said it didn't matter if high cap mags

got banned because he'd just print his own on a 3D printer.

He has also parrotted this "logic" on multiple occasions when it comes to the topic of gun control:

[flamin lib]

8. Cars, boats and entertainment do not have killing

as a primary design feature.

Guns do. I know, I own a rather large number of them. I've researched the evolution of warfare and the armament that went with it.

If we can't depend on polls and statistics for decision making then what? Finger in the air? Not if you are a gungioneer! Then the finger goes elsewhere! Only your stats and only when they support your POV.

It is better to remain silent and have people think you a fool than to speak and remove all doubt.

Please go home to the echo chamber and stop removing all doubt.

[billh58]

9. They just can't

help themselves. Anytime they perceive the slightest threat to their "precious," they scramble for meaningless statistics, half-truths, and outright lies.

Their newest phony "outreach" tactic is to proclaim loudly that they are now "for" background checks as long as the checks remain ineffective, and absolutely no record is kept of the check anywhere under any circumstances. Straw purchases are perfectly okay, and accountability and personal responsibility are un-Constitutional concepts.

NRA apologists only support the right to the unfettered proliferation of gunz, and the gun manufacturers love them for it. Both groups use the Second Amendment as a means to an end: profits from the preventable and needless deaths and injuries of Americans.

[russ1943]

10. Regarding the word FACTS.

Re Post #4. This claim that that he’s posted facts, is in error.
The total number of (estimated) murders by the FBI’s UCR, (as I posted #1) for 2011, was NOT 12,664.
Re ur #2 As with every other year u posted, that number is NOT the total number of murders. The FACT is, that the FBI’s UCR states quite clearly the total number of murders for 2011 was 14,612. To some this difference is of no significance. Poster # 2 provides a link to Expanded Homicide Data Table 8. That linked Table #8, is compiled using information from the Supplementary Homicide Data. The Uniform Crime Reporting (UCR) Program of the FBI collects supplementary homicide data that provides information regarding the age, sex, and race of the murder victim and offender; the type of weapon used; the relationship of the victim to the offender; and the circumstance surrounding the incident.
Of the total 14,612 murders, weapons data was received for 12,664. Of the homicides for which the FBI received weapons data, most (67.8 percent) involved the use of firearms.


To the OP, I did not mean to criticize you.

[CTyankee]

12. thanks, russ. This is exactly what is used to bolster the "you were never safer" meme

of the nra types here (whether or not they identify with the nra). It is why I don't bother with their desperate attempts to "prove" that statement true.

But beyond the obvious sly cherry picking and misrepresentation of data, what does "you were never safer" actually mean? My guess is that it "means" that more guns in people's possession means less violent crime. If that is true, do we have actual data that more guns are in more people's hands OR that more guns are concentrated in fewer peoples' hands? Is there any accurate data about how many people in this country even possess guns? In some areas where there might be such data, are there any accompanying data as to socioeconomic factors which correlate to incidence of gun violence?

I think we should parse the "you were never safer" statement further and examine all of its implications. This could be a thread in and of itself, I guess, but your ideas would be helpful...

[DanTex]

13. Just to add to this...

There are two sources for gun homicide data. One is the FBI's UCR, which is based on police reports. The other is the CDC, which gets its data from morgues. Recently the CDC's numbers have come in slightly higher: for 2010, the CDC reports 11,078 gun homicides. So either the FBI is undercounting, or the CDC is overcounting, or both.

What is clear from the CDC data, though, is that, while gun homicides are down slightly, woulds from gun assaults are up, indicating that there isn't actually less gun violence, just that people who get shot are more likely to survive than they used to be, due to improvements in emergency medicine.

Rates of firearm assault injuries.

Year Number of
injuries Population Crude
Rate Age-Adjusted
Rate**
2001 41,044 284,968,955 14.40 14.11
2002 37,321 287,625,193 12.98 12.75
2003 42,505 290,107,933 14.65 14.40
2004 43,592 292,805,298 14.89 14.72
2005 50,320 295,516,599 17.03 16.92
2006 52,748 298,379,912 17.68 17.45
2007 48,676* 301,231,207 16.16 16.09
2008 56,626 304,093,966 18.62 18.57
2009 44,466 306,771,529 14.49 14.50
2010 53,738 308,745,538 17.41 17.55
2011 55,544 311,591,917 17.83 17.85

Rates of firearm homicides.

Year Number of
Deaths Population*** Crude
Rate Age-Adjusted
Rate**
2001 11,348 284,968,955 3.98 3.93
2002 11,829 287,625,193 4.11 4.07
2003 11,920 290,107,933 4.11 4.07
2004 11,624 292,805,298 3.97 3.94
2005 12,352 295,516,599 4.18 4.17
2006 12,791 298,379,912 4.29 4.27
2007 12,632 301,231,207 4.19 4.20
2008 12,179 304,093,966 4.01 4.03
2009 11,493 306,771,529 3.75 3.78
2010 11,078 308,745,538 3.59 3.62