I don't think attitudes will change much until so-called accidents are prosecuted

[Kaleva]

There's a story in GD about a mother who left two kids in her car while she went into a store to shop. The girl found a gun in the car and fired it. Fortunately, the 4 year old boy was only wounded.

In many such cases, the victim isn't so lucky and was killed. Like the woman who was killed by a boy who got hold of a rifle left out by her husband as he was cleaning his weapons.

Often, no charges are brought against the gun owner and the situation is described by law enforcement as a tragic accident.

It's no accident to leave a gun out unsecured or to handle it in an unsafe manner. That's criminal negligence and ought to be treated as such by prosecutors and law enforcement.

[daleanime]

1. K&R.....

[Journeyman]

2. As I commented in that thread: So long as such stupidity meets with no consequences . . .

it shall continue.

I couldn't agree with you more.

[deathrind]

3. Could not agree more.

There is no such thing as a "tragic accident" when it comes to firearms being found by a child who shoots themselves or someone else. At the very least it is criminal negligence or worse.

[mountain grammy]

4. How can it be anything less than criminal negligence

when a child can access a loaded gun and uses it? Just asking. Any answers?

[DashOneBravo]

5. I agree

They should also have a life long ban on owning firearms.

[Kaleva]

6. Just like those convicted of domestic violence

If one argues they have a right to own firearms but if they fail to responsibly use that right by illegally endangering the lives or taking the life of another, they shouldn't be allowed to every have firearms in their possession and residence again.

[DashOneBravo]

10. Another good point

I think the same thing as you. I believe there has been a couple threads here about that issue.

[Kaleva]

7. The face of a 3 year old whose life was cut short by his irresponsbile gun owning parents

He looks really proud and happy showing off the fish he caught. Now he's 6 feet under.

https://www.facebook.com/NYAGV/posts/10152935922900423

[billh58]

8. 126 Children

killed or injured in just the first three months of this year:

http://www.gunviolencearchive.org/

not to mention 55 mass shootings so far:

http://www.gunviolencearchive.org/reports/mass-shooting

[Kaleva]

9. This county prosecutor determined no laws were broken

"According to the Kentwood police report obtained by 24 Hour News 8, Hanson said he often travels with pistol in the car, but secures the weapon in a holster before placing it in a gun safe along with several other weapons.

However, Hanson told police on Feb. 20 he was in a hurry to visit neighbors who were planning to sell their home and in his haste, he left his gun in the Chevrolet Traverse, the report states.

Michele Hanson was spending her Saturday cleaning the SUV with her young son when the toddler discovered the gun and pulled the trigger."

http://wncn.com/2016/03/05/michigan-gun-owner-toddler-shooting-mom-in-the-head-a-total-accident/

The sheriff makes some interesting comments about the need for gun safety, properly securing the weapon and keeping them out of the hands of children.

I'm looking up news reports about so-called accidental shootings here in Michigan where I live and taking notes in preparation for writing an e-mail and sending it to my state rep and state senator.

[Kaleva]

11. a rough draft

On Feb. 20 of this year, a 3 year old toddler found his father's loaded gun in the glove compartment of the family vehicle and fired off a shot that hit his mother in the back of her head. Fortunately, the woman survived. Last year, 3 year old Jonathan Kaufman of Lenawee County found a loaded handgun stored in a closet in his home and unintentionally shot himself in the head and died. A google search turns up many such incidents here in Michigan and other states.

In the first case I mentioned, Chief Assistant Kent County Prosecutor Chris Becker declined to file charges because he said no laws were broken and that is what happens in almost all of these cases. They are determined to be "tragic accidents" and no one is held accountable.

The NRA itself stresses 3 basic gun safety rules and they are:
1.Always keep the gun pointed in a safe direction.
2.Always keep your finger off the trigger until ready to shoot.
3.Always keep the gun unloaded until ready to use.

Simple rules, that if followed, would have prevented many of the needless tragedies that have occurred and will continue to occur.

I would like you to consider proposing and working to enact legislation that would make a gun owner responsible for guns that he or she owns at all times, even if some other person is handling it, and that the owner be charged with a misdemeanor if any of the 3 rules listed above are violated and if an innocent is injured or killed because of not following any of the 3 rules, the owner be charged with a felony.

I believe the 3rd rule could be expanded to to say that the only time a gun can legally be loaded is when it is the owner's immediate possession for the purpose of training, self defense, target shooting, hunting or other legal activity or another person's, whom the owner has given written or verbal permission to have the gun, immediate possession for the same purposes. Otherwise the gun must be unloaded or if kept loaded, be stored in an approved gun safe or equipped with an approved trigger lock.

I thank you for your time and do hope that you would give what I propose some serious consideration.

[Kaleva]

12. Sent e-mails to my state rep and senator.

Will post here what their replies are.

[jimmy the one]

13. Child Access Prevention Laws (CAP laws)

A child access prevention law (often abbreviated CAP law) makes it illegal for an adult to keep a gun in a place and manner so that a child can easily access and fire it. Proponents of these laws, such as the Law Center to Prevent Gun Violence, argue that they are effective at reducing accidental gun deaths among children.
The National Rifle Association has lobbied against such laws, arguing that they are ineffective and infringe on the rights of gun owners to protect their homes BARF.

A 1997 {albeit dated} study found that CAP laws were associated with a 23% decrease in accidental shooting deaths among children younger than 15 years old.
A 2000 study found that Florida's CAP law appeared to have "significantly reduced unintentional firearm deaths to children," but that the similar laws that existed in 14 other states did not seem to have such an effect. At the time, only three states in the U.S., including Florida, allowed those who violated their state's CAP law to be prosecuted on felony charges.
A 2004 study found that CAP laws were associated with a "modest reduction in suicide rates among youth aged 14 to 17 years."
A 2006 study found that states with CAP laws experienced faster declines in accidental child firearm deaths than states without such laws.
A 2015 study found that these laws have no significant impact on unintentional gun deaths, but that states with such laws had lower rates of youth suicide. Some studies have also found that CAP laws are associated with lower rates of nonfatal gun injuries among children under the age of 18.
In contrast, a 2016 study found that these laws were ineffective.

CAP laws, along with other strict firearm laws, are also associated with lower rates of unsafe gun storage among parents of preschool-age children. These laws are not always applied whenever they could be, and sometimes minors are charged instead https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Child_access_prevention_law

List of states with or without CAP laws (surprisingly, new york does not):
Child Access Prevention Law - SafeStorage or GunLock Req - AssaultWpns Ban
United States 28 Yes 11 Yes 8 Yes
Alabama No No No
Alaska No No No
Arizona No No No
Arkansas No No No
California Yes Yes Yes
Colorado Yes No No
Connecticut Yes Yes Yes
Delaware Yes No No
D.C. .... Yes No Yes
Florida Yes No No
Georgia Yes No No
Hawaii Yes No Yes1
Idaho No No No
Illinois Yes Yes No
Indiana Yes No No
Iowa ...... Yes No No
Kansas No No No
Kentucky Yes No No
Louisiana No No No
Maine.... No No No
Maryland Yes Yes Yes
Massa Yes Yes Yes
Michigan No Yes No
Minnesota Yes No No2
Mississippi Yes No No
Missouri Yes No No
Montana No No No
Nebraska No No No
Nevada Yes No No
N Hamp Yes No No
N Jersey Yes Yes Yes
N Mexico No No No
N York No Yes Yes
N Carolina Yes No No
N Dakota No No No
Ohio ... No Yes No
Oklahoma Yes No No
Oregon No No No
Pennsy No Yes No
R Island Yes Yes No
S Carolina No No No
S Dakota No No No
Tennessee Yes No No
Texas ........ Yes No No
Utah .........Yes No No
Vermont No No No
Virginia Yes No No2
Washington No No No
W Virginia No No No
Wisconsin Yes No No
Wyoming No No No http://kff.org/other/state-indicator/firearms-and-children-legislation/

[Kaleva]

14. Thanks!

I see that Michigan doesn't have a cap law.

[jimmy the one]

15. Eddie Eagle, another NRA Charlatan

In the face of the research findings, the gun group {NRA} has spent years discrediting child access prevention laws and pushing the Eddie Eagle program in their stead.
The gun group has claimed that deaths from unintentional shootings are at a record low, making safe storage laws unnecessary. Experts estimate that roughly 110 children died in unintentional shootings from 2005 to 2012. By international standards, that’s a staggering rate: American children younger than 15 are nine times more likely to die by gun accident than children in other developed countries.

Miltenberger and his colleagues tested the Eddie Eagle program on four- and five-year-olds and six- and seven-year-olds. In both studies, they divided the children into three groups: a control group, which received no gun safety training; a group taught with the Eddie Eagle program; and a final group which received behavioral skills training, or BST, a method that when applied to firearms emphasizes repeated rehearsal of gun-discovery situations coupled with praise and corrective feedback.

The results show that children with BST training were the most likely to avoid touching firearms, while those with no training fared the worst. The group of children who had received five sessions of Eddie Eagle scored slightly better than those without, but still fared poorly at gun safety.
The children’s behavior grew even riskier in the in situ tests placing them alone with a firearm. Among the four- to five-year-olds in the study, only one of the 11 children was able to apply the lessons of Eddie Eagle. Similarly, in the second study of six- to seven-year-olds, only two of 15 steered clear of the unsecured gun.

Miltenberg also believes that gun safety protocols should not place the onus on children to make the right decisions. A better system makes adults responsible for keeping firearms out of young hands. Skills training will never be 100 percent reliable, he notes — the safest option is always to store firearms, unloaded, in a locked gun cabinet.
http://www.thetrace.org/2016/04/nra-eddie-eagle-child-gun-safety-program-ineffective/