Welcome to DU! The truly grassroots left-of-center political community where regular people, not algorithms, drive the discussions and set the standards. Join the community: Create a free account Support DU (and get rid of ads!): Become a Star Member Latest Breaking News Editorials & Other Articles General Discussion The DU Lounge All Forums Issue Forums Culture Forums Alliance Forums Region Forums Support Forums Help & Search

Poiuyt

(18,272 posts)
Sat Apr 7, 2018, 04:36 PM Apr 2018

Collecting Social Security and Medicare if you haven't paid taxes

I have a 67 year old relative who has always worked on a cash basis. To be honest, I don't think he has filed income taxes, at least not in the last 20 years. His ability to do the type of physical labor that he's done all of his life is decreasing. When I've asked him why he doesn't collect SS, he just says, "Nah, I don't want to do that." I think he doesn't what to deal with the government because he's been off the grid for so long.

Does he have any options for collecting government benefits?

15 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
Collecting Social Security and Medicare if you haven't paid taxes (Original Post) Poiuyt Apr 2018 OP
Everyone is entitled to SSI I think exboyfil Apr 2018 #1
I agree that he's been exploiting the system Poiuyt Apr 2018 #5
For Medicare..... asiliveandbreathe Apr 2018 #2
Not if he hadn't paid into it (fica deductions). brush Apr 2018 #3
Is he a veteran? JustABozoOnThisBus Apr 2018 #4
Not a vet Poiuyt Apr 2018 #6
Anyone who has worked for 40 quarters, is eligible for SS and Medicare. Big Blue Marble Apr 2018 #7
If he had always worked on a cash basis, hes screwed Fiendish Thingy Apr 2018 #8
If my memory is right ... left-of-center2012 Apr 2018 #9
He is lucky he hasn't been charged with tax evasion MichMan Apr 2018 #10
I'm sure you're right Poiuyt Apr 2018 #11
Gosh, he never paid in and now he wants to collect? PoindexterOglethorpe Apr 2018 #12
One can buy into Medicare if doesn't have the 40 quarters of payroll deductions progree Jun 2018 #13
I know two single Moms (both having one child). Both self-employed. One paid into the system progree Jun 2018 #14
Payroll taxes, FICA PoindexterOglethorpe Jul 2018 #15

exboyfil

(18,000 posts)
1. Everyone is entitled to SSI I think
Sat Apr 7, 2018, 04:44 PM
Apr 2018

It pays out at the Social Security minimum. Medicare requires earning a certain amount of social security credits, but no income means Medicaid eligibility.

His living off the grid means that both he and his employers have exploited the system though. The thing can only work if everybody is in the pool (and that includes the currently capped high earners as well).

asiliveandbreathe

(8,203 posts)
2. For Medicare.....
Sat Apr 7, 2018, 04:46 PM
Apr 2018

United States Medicare is funded by a payroll tax, premiums and surtaxes from beneficiaries, and general revenue. It provides health insurance for Americans aged 65 and older who have worked and paid into the system through the payroll tax...

AFA SS - only guessing but it would seem, if you never paid IN, how can you get a payout??

Like taxes..if you don't pay in, how do you expect a refund?

Edit for Medicaid info

https://www.hhs.gov/answers/medicare-and-medicaid/who-is-eligible-for-medicaid/index.html

Wish your friend well..

JustABozoOnThisBus

(23,763 posts)
4. Is he a veteran?
Sat Apr 7, 2018, 04:48 PM
Apr 2018

There could be some benefits there. And, a local VFW or American Legion hall could probably help with the paperwork and with the bureaucracy.

Big Blue Marble

(5,454 posts)
7. Anyone who has worked for 40 quarters, is eligible for SS and Medicare.
Sat Apr 7, 2018, 05:20 PM
Apr 2018

So if earlier in his life he was employed by by a W2 filer, he would be eligible for both even
though in his later life, he did not report income. He should talk with an attorney who deals
in elder law.

Fiendish Thingy

(18,528 posts)
8. If he had always worked on a cash basis, hes screwed
Sat Apr 7, 2018, 05:30 PM
Apr 2018

If he didn’t pay into the system, he won’t get benefits, unless he has a wife who qualifies, the he can possibly get spousal benefits.

left-of-center2012

(34,195 posts)
9. If my memory is right ...
Sat Apr 7, 2018, 06:40 PM
Apr 2018

I think when I applied for S.S. about six years ago,
I had to have (on their records) that I had worked so many 'quarters' of a year during the past five years.

I do not know what would be the case for someone who can not show it.

MichMan

(13,199 posts)
10. He is lucky he hasn't been charged with tax evasion
Sun Apr 8, 2018, 01:08 AM
Apr 2018

Wants the benefits of living in the country while expecting the rest of us to pay for it because he can't be bothered with paying his share

Maybe that's why he doesn't want to press the issue now

PoindexterOglethorpe

(26,727 posts)
12. Gosh, he never paid in and now he wants to collect?
Mon Apr 9, 2018, 01:30 AM
Apr 2018

No.

Over the years I've known a surprising number of people who have been very proud of themselves for cheating the government and not paying taxes. Got paid on a cash basis. They have no reason to complain now that they can't collect SS or Medicare.

I have zero sympathy for people like that.

Taking a quick look at SSI, there's a distant possibility he's eligible just based on his age, but he'll need to research it.

progree

(11,463 posts)
13. One can buy into Medicare if doesn't have the 40 quarters of payroll deductions
Sun Jun 24, 2018, 09:30 PM
Jun 2018

As far as Medicare, the payroll deductions only fund Medicare Part A which is the hospital / skilled nursing facility part of it (but not regular nursing home). (It's a common myth that the payroll deductions fund all of Medicare, no they don't. For example Part B is funded 25% by premiums and 75% by the general fund -- which in turn is mostly funded by income taxes, not payroll taxes).

So the only problem is that he will have to pay Part A premiums (which are hefty unfortunately). Or he could do without that aspect of Medicare and still get Part B (outpatient / doctor visits), and Part D (drug coverage). Part B and Part D also have premiums that everyone has to pay, but they are not tied to work credits -- they are the same for everyone (unless you enroll late or have high income e.g. $85,000 Modified AGI. Well, there might be some low income reduced premium programs too -- Medicare is full of that but I don't know the details).

...Otherwise, if you’re 65 or older, you can buy into Medicare by paying monthly premiums for Part A hospital insurance. You can also join Part B and pay the same premiums as other people. In both cases, you must be a U.S. citizen or a legal resident (green card holder) who has lived in the United States continuously for at least five years.

The amount you pay for the Part A premium in 2014 is $234 a month (if you have 30 to 39 work credits) or $426 a month (if you have fewer than 30 work credits). These amounts usually change a little each year. If you continue working until you’ve earned 40 credits (about 10 years' work in total), you’ll no longer be required to pay Part A premiums.

If you buy Part A, you must also enroll in Part B. But you can enroll in Part B without having Part A. You can get Part D prescription drug coverage if you’re enrolled in Part A or Part B. To join a private Medicare Advantage plan or to buy Medigap supplemental insurance, you must have Part A and Part B.

It’s important to know that if you don’t enroll in Part B when you’re supposed to, you risk having to pay a permanent late penalty when you finally sign up, even if you haven’t worked long enough to qualify for Part A without paying a premium for it. (Related article: “Can You Be Penalized for Not Enrolling in Medicare?”)

More: https://www.aarp.org/health/medicare-insurance/info-04-2008/ask_ms__medicare_9.html


The article left out the late enrollment penalty on Part D (drug coverage). In my case, even though I don't take drugs (yet), the $30/month I'm paying for drug coverage comes out cheaper than the penalty I would pay for late enrollment in Part D over an average life expectancy (life expectancy for a male at 65 is like about 18 years). The late enrollment penalties for Part B and Part D are little adders to your monthly premium for your entire life, that are proportional to how late one enrolled.

Check into Medicaid too, as others have mentioned.

As for (regular) Social Security -- I don't think there's any way ... Some people have said check into SSI, and I agree with that. As for SSDI, nope, need the work credits.

progree

(11,463 posts)
14. I know two single Moms (both having one child). Both self-employed. One paid into the system
Sun Jun 24, 2018, 09:44 PM
Jun 2018

while the other did it "off the books". (No, they are not a "couple" ).

The one that did it by the book and filed income taxes each year got a huge huge "refund" (despite not paying anything in during the year via withholding or estimated taxes), because she was a low-income single mom, and the child tax credit and especially the earned income tax credit are in effect huge negative income taxes. And part of what would be that refund they automatically paid her Social Security taxes off of that, and still she got like $3,000 after the Social Security deductions. So by being "on the books", her Social Security is taken care of and she gets $thousands back each year. Oh, and about $1,000 back from Minnesota -- again after having paid nothing in.

The one that did it off the grid -- she has missed out on all that, plain and simple. And she will be in the same boat as your friend when she gets old.

I think though for the last several years she has been working at a regular salaried job that would be withholding and all that, so she may be well on her way to getting her 40 quarters of work credits.



PoindexterOglethorpe

(26,727 posts)
15. Payroll taxes, FICA
Thu Jul 5, 2018, 09:43 PM
Jul 2018

which is social security, is something everyone pays on their earned income even if they don't pay federal or state income taxes. Unearned income (interest, dividends, sale of stocks and the like) do not incur FICA, even when they result in federal or state income taxes.

I have likewise known more than one person who either worked entirely off the books, or largely so, and then in their mid-sixties were horrified to learn they wouldn't get any Social Security.

Too many people don't think things through.

Latest Discussions»Issue Forums»Social Security & Medicare»Collecting Social Securit...