Can't alert on posts.

[Turk182]

I get mass alerted on for no reason, I get hides daily, I get appeals approved.
My account has been tomestoned twice and reinstated.

I STILL can’t alert on a post that violates the rules. I get nothing or an error.

What am I doing wrong? Help.

[patricia92243]

1. No star

[progree]

2. One doesn't need a star to alert on a post /nt

[patricia92243]

4. Did not know that. Thanks for the info :)

[progree]

3. There is no notification about the results of alerting on a post. One just alerts

and it should pop up a box saying "alert sent" or something like that, I don't recall. But anyway that's the last of any kind of notification that you or I will get if we alert. I just keep checking on a post that I alerted on, and if it is "Post Removed", then I or another alerter was successful. If it's still there after an hour, that's the only way I know my alert was unsuccessful.

I STILL can’t alert on a post that violates the rules. I get nothing or an error.

As for the error part, I haven't encountered that.

[Turk182]

5. I don't get a notice of any kind

And the system allows me to “alert” on the same post multiple times, which it shouldn’t, no alert is ever being sent, happening to multiple members I tried to alert on.
It sounds like I’m doing everything right, it’s just the system that is biased against me for some strange reason

[progree]

9. ...

And the system allows me to “alert” on the same post multiple times, which it shouldn’t,

In my experience, if I click on Alert within about 24 hours of alerting, it just tells me that I've alerted on this post before, and that's it.

After about 24 hours it will say this alert is being sent directly to the Administrators. Again this is just my experience.

no alert is ever being sent, happening to multiple members I tried to alert on.

How do you know it's not being sent? Do you get (or not get) a "Your alert has been submitted" or somesuch message box immediately after alerting?

The admins can simply turn off the alert function on a member without notification, according to something I read years ago in the old "Ask The Administrators" forum, and that may have happened to you, I guess.

[EarlG]

6. A few things

First, you have no idea how many alerts are being sent on your posts.

Second, you have been getting hides because you have broken the rules. You should review the site rules and endeavor to follow them. This is particularly important for new members who need to figure out how to engage with the community:

https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=termsofservice

Third, we previously discussed an issue you were having with alerting on DU Mail messages. However, now you are talking about not being able to alert on posts. Are you talking about the same problem, or two separate problems? As I explained previously, if you are getting an error message I’ll need to know what it is. You can send it to me via DU Mail. Please explain the problem in as much detail as possible when you do.

[Turk182]

7. Two separate problems

I do have a rough estimate of how many alerts are being sent on me because of the juries and hides.
Just wondering if I’m doing something wrong.

[EarlG]

8. It's possible that you are attempting to alert on a post which is more than 24 hours old

In which case you will just get a text box. If you fill it out it is not sent to a Jury, but separately to Admin. Posts which are older than 24 hours cannot be sent to Juries.

If you are getting an error message, I need to know exactly what the error message says.

As for the rest, I’ve given you a link to the rules, and you have the information that was given to you in DU Mail messages about your specific removed posts when they were removed. Beyond that, it’s up to you to figure out how to fit into the community. My advice would be to focus more on how to engage with other members in a civil manner, and less on combatting people via the alert system.

[Turk182]

11. Thank you

I’ll send you the error

[Turk182]

12. I tried that approach.

“you have been getting hides because you have broken the rules. You should review the site rules and endeavor to follow them. “
As you can see by the jury decisions that have been overturned in my favor, following the rules still gets me hides.

For example, take a look at this thread, all of these posts were pulled without an alert on them, without a jury, deciding they violated the rules, and without me violating the rules, yet they all disappeared, and they’re still gone to this day. I would love to hear an explanation about how this happened. Maybe you can get these posts put back up on the board since none of them violated the rules …Perhaps the people abusing the jury system need to review the. I hope you understand my point. I’m trying to get across, I have been following the rules and I have had many many posts pulled regardless of rule breaking. The link to the thread below is a perfect example of how many of my posts get deleted for no reason whatsoever, without alerts or juries, the only reason I can see is that they were embarrassing the person I was having a discussion with, who then shortly emailed me with a threat.
I read the rules again, but following them is going to give me the same result, I think you know that.
rules.https://www.democraticunderground.com/100219266546

[EarlG]

13. Those posts were auto-removed because your account was terminated

That's what happens when new members get banned -- all their posts are deleted. Those posts were not sent to Juries, they were simply removed by the software. The posts will not be coming back -- there's no technical way to bring them back even if I wanted to.

Since that happened, you have been given a second chance to participate. My suggestion, if you want to be a productive member of this community, would be to move on and do your best to follow the rules going forward, and participate in a civil manner. I don't think there's any further advice I can give you.

[Turk182]

14. This is not what I was told in a private email

By you.
You’re now saying I got banned without any alerts or hides?
I was told by you that this was done in error.
This only makes me more confused, I think everybody knows that when you get banned all of your posts get removed, everybody knows you get banned after so many hides for alerts and juries, none of that happened on this day for this thread.
Perhaps you have staff reply to emails you get, I would certainly check on that because we had a previous discussion that is conflicting with a I’m being told now.
I’m just saying, that I don’t know what to say, this is all very backwards to me.
I was not aware that you could get banned without violating the rules, getting alerts, having a jury find you guilty multiple times.
That you can just immediately get banned, but only some of your posts are removed.

[progree]

17. For posts counts less than 100, MIRT has the authority to ban people, no matter how many or few

posts are hidden. Its wild west for post counts under 100. You may have been in that situation at the time.

After 100 posts, there's the auto-flagged for review thing for 5+ hides. And the admins can ban a member no matter how many or few hides with or without giving a reason. They are extremely very busy and just don't have the time to give all complaining members the time you seem to expect them to. And they don't have to. Its simply the limitations of time available.

I accept it as the reality of the situation.

I know I wouldn't be arguing with the site owner publicly about how inconsistent some things are beyond a certain point.

[Turk182]

18. I understand.

But that’s what happened.

[EarlG]

19. progree has explained it well but I'll reiterate it for you so there is no further confusion

DU has a team of volunteers whose job is to keep an eye on new members to determine whether or not they are here to engage with the community productively, or whether they're here to cause trouble. If the team decides that a new member is here to cause trouble, they will ban that person. The team gets to decide this until a member reaches 100 posts -- once a member crosses that threshold, the team is no longer responsible for keeping an eye on them.

This system is separate from the Jury system. As soon as you become a DU member, all your posts are subject to the Jury system -- any of them can be alerted on and potentially removed by a Jury, if the Jury determines that a rule was broken. If you get a post removed by Jury when you are a brand new member under the 100 post threshold, there's a very high chance that you will be banned. However, the team can ban you even without a post being removed.

The team decided that you were here to cause trouble and banned your account. When they did this, all of your posts were automatically removed by our system, because you had fewer than 100 posts. I trust the team and generally defer to them when it comes to these decisions, but as the Admin I have the authority to override them. Since I had already interacted with you prior to them banning you -- you asked for help getting your account set up -- I decided that this particular ban was done in error, and that I would give you another chance. Note that this only happens very rarely.

Since then you have had a number of posts removed by Jury. You appealed some of these. I approved at least one of the appeals, but not all of them. Once a member reaches five hidden posts in any 90 day period, their account is flagged for review. Currently you have four hidden posts on your record. So if you get any more hidden posts in the next three months, and those hides are not overturned on appeal, you're done.

That is why I have been trying to give you advice about reading and following the rules, and figuring out how to fit in with the community. If you're here to talk politics, and you can do that in a relatively civil manner, then please carry on. If you cannot do that, then in fairly short order a Jury will decide that you have posted something problematic, and that will be that.

[Turk182]

20. I understand

But…

“ When they did this, all of your posts were automatically removed by our system, ”

That’s not accurate, most of my posts remained on the site, in fact the very thread I started remained on the site, and posts that I made within that thread remained on the site except for the very embarrassing posts for that one member. Those specific posts were removed. And then that member sent me a threatening email.
I’m gonna follow the rules, I can promise you.
But I am sure if I repeated the threats that were made to me in an email to another member, I would be banned for making threats and calling names.

[EarlG]

21. I can't determine whether or not you were threatened because I have not seen the message

That's because there is currently a bug in the DU Mail alert process which we will hopefully have resolved shortly. Once that's fixed I'll let you know and you can alert on the message.

With regard to the rules on DU Mail messages -- you are correct that you can say things in private messages that you cannot say in public. The fact is that from time to time members get heated and decide to take it out on each other in private. This is not subject to the Jury system.

Frankly, I'm not really concerned about this, because we provide a tool for members to deal with unwanted DU Mail messages -- you can simply block the sender, and the problem is resolved.

If I get an alert on DU Mail messages and it's apparent that it's just two people butting heads in private, then it's not really my concern. I will only step in if I receive an alerted message which contains something highly egregious -- a threat of physical violence, bigotry, or something along those lines. If something like that happens then the sender will likely be banned, but this is something that has not happened in years.

[Turk182]

22. I'm not going to alert the mail

You made yourself clear.
Thanks for your responses.

[Turk182]

16. Thanks for posting the rules, I read them for a fourth time just now

Rules

states that there are no threats or name-calling allowed, but I was told certain threats and name calling are allowed in DUemail.
It certainly doesn’t carve out that exception in the rules, it clearly states no name-calling or threats.
I was actually told by somebody else that this is bait, do not take the bait you will be banned immediately.
So are threats and name-calling allowed in emails? I’m asking for the entire board.

[Lifeafter70]

27. I have a question about alert button

While scrolling through a thread, I accidentally hit the alert button. I do not intend to alert so back out of thread. Will the unintended alert still be sent?

[Fiendish Thingy]

10. You've been here less than two weeks

Take it easy and listen to Earl G’s advice regarding the rules and the community, so you can be here for the excitement of the fall campaign!

[Turk182]

15. I listen to his advice

Have you ever seen somebody get banned and only some of their posts are removed?
Have you ever seen someone get banned without any alerts juries or hides?
I took his advice and followed the rules, exactly, and as you can see in the thread link, I posted, it didn’t matter at all, everything got erased, even though I followed the rules and there were no alerts.
I’m not expecting an explanation, I would just like an acknowledgment that this is not normal, that members don’t get banned willy-nilly, and if they do all of their posts get removed, not just the ones embarrassing to another member.

[progree]

23. Well that didn't take long, I just checked and found out, I figured it was inevitable and sooner rather than later. /nt

[MarineCombatEngineer]

24. Yep,

I tried to warn him via various PM's that he was on the brink, but apparently he didn't want to take some friendly advice and tone it down.

Meh, he FAFO.

[progree]

25. I can only guess

I can only guess that it was deliberate -- the DAY AFTER he got all the warnings on this thread that included his on-the-brink status (#19 especially by the ultimate explainer), he STARTED an OP on the same flammable subject that got him into trouble earlier. It would be maybe a little different if he got sucked into replying to something on some other thread, but no, to actually START a thread like that is incomprehensible other than a what-the-hell, might as well go out in a blaze of glory attitude.

[cbabe]

26. My sis in law is a cpa. She once spent an entire day trying to reconcile a five

cent discrepancy. Until her boss told her to move on, quit wasting time.

This person sounds as if they’re stuck on minutiae, keeps circling back until it’s resolved to their understanding.

Moving on can be very difficult.

[Bev54]

28. If you are alerting on that many posts, and being alerted on maybe look at what you

are posting or how you interact with people. I have only ever alerted on one post since I have been here, it should not be a common occurrence. Your alerts will go through but if the posts are still up, you likely alerted to something that should not have been.

This is not to be used against someone you disagree with but for actual breaking of the rules.