Intersectionality in Movies: The Help

[obamanut2012]

I think I would love a discussion on the subtle and overt RACISM in the book with the group we have here, but I'm saving that until the weekend, when more people are on here to comment. The script writers did all they could to toss the worst of Stockett's White Woman Savior bits, and does more to show some of the cruelty and fear suffered by Blacks in the pre-integration Deep South. I also think Octavia Spencer and Viola Davis are wonderful, as are Jessica Chastain and Bryce Howard.

But I digress. I think that this movie, even with the limitations set by Stockett's book, presents am interesting example of intersectionality within a microcosm. I'm interested in what some of you have to say about your impressions of all of this. I really hope Catherina jumps into this thread!

(disclaimer: I am white, lesbian, and Southern)

Oh, here's a link to a critical review of the movie some of you may find interesting:



http://community.feministing.com/2011/08/09/the-help-a-critical-review/

[Warpy]

1. Interesting review, and I agree that the complete absence of the male was troubling

since they were the enforcers during this period.

I found the plot device of the white savior annoying as hell. A better book would have been written by the daughter of a maid from this period, telling their stories of abuse, affection, and occasional revenge.

[obamanut2012]

4. I did like how some of the control and power was transferred to

Aibileen in the movie, instead of leaving it in Skeeter's hands.

Yes, it was indeed odd to me that the only male really fleshed out, on side of Skeeter's boyfriend, was Mr. Johnny, who was definitely NOT an enforcer of the legal and social mores of that time and place. I will give a little bit of slack here that he MAY have changed attitudes a bit, because his wife was an outsider as much as the maids, even ore IN SOME WAYS (ie they were allowed in houses Celia wasn't, albeit only as domestics).

Making Hilly the Face of Segregation was annoying as hell to me. Women in that time and place , white women with money, had very, very little power or influence on society. They didn't make the rules. Or the laws. Or enforce them. Or decide to concede on rare occasions. They weren't the ones who murdered and raped. They were petty tyrants to their domestics, which of course is classic behavior when the oppressed are give some power over the even more oppressed.

[justiceischeap]

2. Are you gonna make me watch this movie?

I guess so, if I want to participate.

[obamanut2012]

5. Watch it for Viola Davis, Octavia Spencer, and Jessica Chastain

And Sissy Spacek, in a small role.

[TreasonousBastard]

3. I'm going to have to read the book, or...

at least see the movie-- these little eruptions over it are getting interesting. I've mentioned in the past that reviews and comments over sensitive topics often tell more about the reviewer than the reviewed, and this work seems like no exception.

Even though I haven't read the book, I do know a little about the situation-- my grandmother was a very white, fairly wealthy, Lincoln Republican in rural Maryland who hired "darkies" to work around the house. Although she never exhibited any of the racial hatred some of the neighbors had, she was still the product of several centuries of tradition and social conditioning. When she fought the Klan and integrated her church because her employees worshiped the same god she did, there was little thought that those employees might become "closer" family and she still talked of everyone having their place.

I could go on talking about the great works they did, and the people they helped, but I'll just say August and Edith were two of the finest people I have ever had the privilege to know. There was, however, that old Southern part of them that while far ahead of many of their neighbors would leave us aghast nowadays.

Relations between the races were so complex back then that I never hope to understand them. I suspect anyone talking about it is just one of the blind men with the elephant-- very well understood, but only of one part.

[obamanut2012]

6. VERY interesting!

Do both: read the book and watch the movie. I found the book rather appalling, the movie less so. I would love to have you post about your relative through the prism of Stockett's work.

[Warpy]

7. The book is well written and an interesting read

It just doesn't have much to do with the way things used to be. I know because I was there, in the south, in a neighborhood where all the other mothers had black maids, something that was taken for granted by any family with a professional level breadwinner, even if he was a cop or fireman.

I knew some of the Future Junior League types in high school and they were definitely deadly.

And you're correct about the complexity of race relations. I was there but I was an outsider with a Yankee accent and veteran of integrated schools and got totally flummoxed by it.

[Starry Messenger]

8. I read the book and disliked it so much I avoided the movie.

I'll have to wait for the weekend discussion. I was shocked that the book made it through the publishing process without people pointing out to the author all of the problematic tropes she was employing.

[obamanut2012]

9. The scary thing is, she thinks it's wonderful and all civil roghtsie

Her epilogue to her IRL African-American maid was one of the most clueless and patronizing things I have ever read on race. Total WHOOSH!

I promise to post the other thread on Saturday morning. It should be very good!

[Neoma]

10. My take on it.

The book was in the class of Mudbound by Hillary Jordan, Water for Elephants by Sara Gruen, The Painted Veil by Somerset Maugham and Eat, Pray, Love by Elizabeth Gilbert. I think the book is meant for bad book groups who have nothing better to do.

I keep a list of all the books I read. Here's all the books I've read with black people in them, or dealing with black stereotypes, within the last 7 years:

The Bluest eye by Toni Morrison
The Green Mile by Stephen King
To Kill a Mockingbird by Harper lee
I'm Down by Mishna Wolff
Tim & Tom by Tim Reid and Tom Dreesen, et al.
The Boy Who Harnessed the Wind by William Kamkwamba
Black Like Me by John Howard Griffin
(The beginning of Roots by Alex Haley, haven't finished it.)
The Help by Kathryn Stockett
Black Boy by Richard Wright
Equiano, the African by Vincent Carretta <----The only non-narrative non-fiction.

This is actually a very pitiful number of books compared to the number of how many books I have read overall. I've read The Color Purple before, and when I was much, much younger, American Girl books. Besides movies, that's about it. I only mention this, because the kicker is that I don't think a lot of other people have read much on it either, in fact, a lot of people simply don't read... People grow up in neighborhoods that aren't always diversified. White is as much of a default in our culture as men are, and it's bound to always show up in books and film.

To be quite honest, instinctively, standing in front of the African-American section in Barnes and Nobles, is as bad as standing in front of the gay sex section. It's not as though you're not interested, but did they have to make it so viewable? The thought process is, "I hope homophobes or racists don't attack me while I'm looking." Total paranoia, but it happens every time. Someone comes by the isle and the thought is, "Ooooh, look at how interesting the Civil war section is." The person passes, then I feel stupid and think, "Well it's not my business to pry when I don't have any black friends (or I don't have gay sex) anyways." I'm pretty damn sure a lot of people who has grown up in pure bred white neighborhoods (at least in the south) are like that. Of course later, I wonder why there has to be a section for it anyways.

So, that's pretty much why when people said The Help is racist, I was surprised. I think that was first book that made me aware of the Jim Crow laws. I was surprised when I heard the Green Mile was racist too. But I can see the theme they're talking about. It's just... subtle racism to some people. It's not like when my grandpa asked me if I enjoyed watching that n*gger when I was watching Chris Rock stand-up. That's a little more blunt. Someone in the south could be talking about some place being a 'bad neighborhood' and you could go along for a very long time before you figure out s/he just means a neighborhood with black people in it.

So here's my question: How do you know that she didn't know that she was being racist? If she didn't know enough and was dumb enough to write about racism? I mean, white people still learn certain rules about race and racism and how to act. And sometimes it deals HEAVILY on being guilt ridden and sensitive enough to tip toe around the subject. You meet a black person and you like the person, and you never know if it's okay to bring the topic up. It's not necessarily because you want to bring it up either. It's just there and more bluntly there because you're in a very white community. It's always out in the open because people have made it that way. Then you realize, you really don't want to seem like you're trying to ask that person to represent every single black person on earth. At that point of the realization, you simply don't bring the topic up.

You hear about the racism of this, and the racism of that, and how racist that so many black people are portrayed in the media, or in jail, or about how rap culture is ruining black culture, or hearing about what they do to their hair and how horrible it is, et cetera, et cetera. I mean, you can't go around roaming black neighborhoods to meet black people just to feel like you're finally communicating with 'them' as if they're much different anyways. It's made into such a sensitive issue, that it's almost like there's still a dividing line because of it.

That's pretty much as honest I can get. Now I just post this and hope I didn't accidentally say anything racist.

[laconicsax]

11. If you want to better understand the perspective, you might try reading more written from it.

http://www.racialicious.com/
http://darkdaughta.blogspot.com/
Anything by bell hooks
etc.

[Starry Messenger]

12. There's a lot to unpack there.

She probably 100% did not know that her book was going to be feeding into racist stereotypes. That, in itself, is a problem. Our education is controlled by a power structure that colludes to erase discussions of racism, and the racist history of this country.

However, her book went through several layers of people to get published. I'm guessing most of those layers were also white. Although, as you point out, there are details in the book that white people probably do not know about Jim Crow, there is a way to have that conversation without the rather (imo) self-congratulatory air the book has with the role of "well-meaning white people who save the black people" in it. This probably could have been avoided if the author had consulted some Black editors, but I'm sure there are very few in the mainstream publishing world, due to white bias in all areas of media. Or it could have been avoided if a Black woman could get a major contract with a mainstream publishing house to write a book on this topic and hit the #1 bestselling lists for weeks. This is still rare to nonexistent in this country too. And it's not from a lack of Black women authors who write kick-ass books.

There's been a wide array of reactions to The Help from Black writers, about the book and the movie. I'm white, and there were things in the book that I knew nothing about, but I felt that the subject could have been covered 100% better if the author had taken time to vet her book. (Its wild popularity means that it's going to be treated as "*the* book on the subject", which I think is sad. That said, I haven't seen the movie, and it sounds like efforts were made to bring balance that the book lacked.)

There are books and articles written on some of the tropes the author used in the book, that were published before she went to press. Lots of Black writers publish blogs and carry articles on their websites that cover these issues heavily. There are books by Black authors on the subject. As they say, Google was her friend. She may not have known when writing her book, but she could have educated herself. She felt comfortable enough to publish a book on the topic of racism, but not to read books or talk to more than a few Black people about the book (maybe she didn't even do that?) http://acriticalreviewofthehelp.wordpress.com/2011/08/28/i-just-made-this-shit-up-per-stockett/

“I just made this sh*t up!” Kathryn Stockett’s incredibly demeaning response

<snip>
In this case taking the approach to make “shit up” won’t cut it, because actual history can’t be altered, especially since the book was marketed as historical fiction. While there were other attempts made on Evers life, being “bludgeoned” wasn’t one of them.

So in a room that contained journalists, not a one even realized the issue wasn’t Stockett placing real events in a fictitious novel. That’s regularly done these days. Especially after Forrest Gump was such a big hit.

The problem is she rode a wave of good will and credibility because it was assumed SHE HAD DONE the needed research on the black culture and captured the feel of the time period.

At least that was the hype her PR department primed the public for on the novel.

In an early indication that something was wrong, Stockett was caught off guard in a number of interviews, especially when asked about Medgar Evers. Because in three known audio interviews she actually claimed Evers had indeed been ”bludgeoned” to death instead of being shot.
<snip>

I think the question we should ask next is, why was her credibility and good will automatically assumed? She had the power and the opportunity to write a book that the publishing house was committed to throwing their weight behind. It was an incredible advantage that most Black authors will never seen in their lifetime. If she intended to be an ally against the racist power structure, I don't think she succeeded.

[obamanut2012]

13. And also reactions from Southern whites knowing she was being crazy racist

We all went to college with young women (and young men) like this, people who come from families with a huge sense of self-privilege and sometimes, but not always money. That self-privilege comes from having a certain "name," a name that goes back a long time, and a name that quite a few enslaved blacks carried against their will.

They talked about their old nurse/housekeeper/cook whom they just loved and whom they send Christmas card, and who they would later invite to weddings and christenings, but never to a family dinner or an informal barbeque. Oh no no no.

They had a certain attitude, a certain disconnect about racism and the whole history of Blacks in this country. Their racism had (or I should say Has, since I still know and work with the same type of people) no maliciousness behind it, but that doesn't make it any better.

Just like Blacks can see and know a certain type of racism when they see and read and hear it, so can those of those who saw it from the side of those brandishing it, while thinking they are pretty fine unbiased folks.

To excuse the casual, unknowing, paternalistic racism of Stockett's work, is to also excuse the same casual, unknowing, paternalistic sexism, homophobia, transphobiam, xenophobia, classism, ageism....

Again, I found the movie much, much less mired in this than the book, although it was often still problematic.

[Starry Messenger]

14. Wow, I never thought about that.

I've never been to the South, so the deeper implications of where the author might have been coming from didn't hit me. I just know when I read it, it just hit me all wrong. It didn't seem to be what it had been claiming to be. I'll be interested to see the movie, I have read reviews of it and heard the performances by the Black actresses were stellar.

I hope I didn't threadjack, but that question of "How could she know?" I just had to answer. Your answer brings even more layers to that.

[obamanut2012]

15. You didn't threadjack at all

I hope some of our DUers who are Southern and of color chime in from their POV.

Stockett doesn't realize how she comes across. I would bet money on that. That doesn't make it better, just different.

[justiceischeap]

16. Not having read the book or seen the movie, I still have an opinion/question

I am perplexed about how Stockett or anyone who worked in the publishing industry couldn't have known how she would come across. I find it fascinating, with the process a book has to go through to be published, that not one person saw any issues with the issues y'all have spoken about and what, apparently, many others saw as well. It makes you wonder if it's more an issue of just not caring. I mean, how difficult is it to make sure you get Medgar Evers cause of death correct? It's right on his wikipedia page, many of the first few Google results talk about an assassin's bullet. Then to double-down on your claim that he was bludgeoned to death reeks of right-wing historical revisionism. I guess one could argue that the bullet did indeed bludgeon the man to death...

On a slightly different note, I've seen authors complain about how their publisher's categorize their books. My guess is that the publisher categorized the book as historical fiction and the author had no say in that.

[obamanut2012]

17. I think they saw $$$$$ and didn't care

Her book was optioned by a studio really fast. They knew they had a goldmine. I think some of it was also Ivory Tower Syndrome.

Getting Evers death wrong was appalling. Like you said, WIKI IT! I am 99% sure the movie corrected that. Redbox the movie, because I'm very interested in what you think about this.

[justiceischeap]

18. I'll try to watch it over the weekend.

It's on PPV but Redbox will probably be cheaper.

[Neoma]

20. It's old attitudes that are passed on.

Though I wouldn't say all white peple come from privileged backgrounds in the south. Indentured servants and share croppers...

[Tunkamerica]

25. you're kidding right? Most white people don't come from priveleged backgrounds. Just like most

people don't. Rich people are rare no matter what section of the country or world you come from or what color your skin is. Please don't take hollywood's portrayal of the south as the truth. Not many had large plantations.

That being said, these attitudes are not just class based.

[Neoma]

26. I was explaining exactly that...

I don't see where you got that idea.

[Tunkamerica]

31. you implied through your language that not all but most were rich.

Ex.: Though I won't say all asians are bad drivers. Race car drivers and truckers...

You may not have meant to say that but it's how it came off.

A rich person is an anomaly by definition. Any race, any time period. Most white people were not rich then as now.

[Neoma]

32. As I said in explanation:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1254&pid=188

[obamanut2012]

27. I never said they did

The huge majority didn't, but The Help isn't about them (except for the character of Celia).

And, indentured servants, while that was still legal had a higher concentration in New England.

[Neoma]

28. Meh, I was verging off topic.

Both sides of my family picked cotton...It's what I can relate to.

What I can say though is that didn't stop racist attitudes seeping in. My aunt embraces racism, but it's not like our Scottish/Irish heritage gives us a fond history of having servants. I think that was my point. There doesn't have to be an important family name attached.

[justiceischeap]

29. As I recall history, the ladder of inequality went something like this:

(From the bottom up)

Slaves/Blacks
Irish
Poor whites
Whites
Rich Whites

[Neoma]

30. Yep.

You forgot the Indians though. I have a bit of that on that side of the family too.

[Tx4obama]

35. You forgot Italians and Chinese immigrants

The lynching of 11 Italians in New Orleans in 1891 was largest mass lynching in American history

New Orleans prejudice and discrimination results in lynching of 11 Italians, the largest mass lynching in United States history.
http://www.niaf.org/milestones/year_1891.asp

AND

Also Chinese immigrants
http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/nationnow/2011/10/us-senate-apologizes-for-mistreatment-of-chinese-immigrants.html

[Catherina]

19. Wow there are so many great posts in this thread

and I'm taking you up on your invitation and jumping in but I'm no more qualified than anyone else in this thread.

I haven't seen the movie but I know enough people like Stockett and everything I read up on it only makes me hate it.

Do you guys remember Hogan's Heroes? I hated that as a kid. Later I hated it even more because only Hollywood would be offensive enough to make a comedy pretending it was FUN to be in a German prisoner of war camp during World War II.

This is what I know I'm going to hate about The Help. It romanticizes, and makes funny, a very cruel part of our history and current social fabric. Nothing's changed in places like Mississipi. Black women still slave away raising White women's children and doing all the chores.

For A Lady I Know by Countee Cullen

She even thinks that up in heaven
Her class lies late and snores

While poor black cherubs rise at seven
To do celestial chores.

I feel the same way about The Help as I did about Hogan's heroes and Gone With The Wind. At least Margaret Mitchell told the story through her eyes so I can't fault her for writing from her perspective. But for a White woman to write from the perspective of her Black maid, really? What the f* do you know about your Black maid? And to romanticize it as if White women overseeing this did all they could to help and domestic servitude and racial exploitation was all one big sisterhood. Omagod, that's simply too much.


I was already infuriated before I knew anything about the uglier aspects of the author and her book. Triple my disgust now.

Lawsuit
Abilene Cooper, a maid who used to work for Stockett’s brother, has criticized the author for stealing her life story without her knowledge and sued her for $75,000 in damages. Cooper also criticized her for comparing the character’s skin color to a cockroach.(12) A Hinds County Mississippi judge threw the case out of court, citing the statute of limitations.

...

you used the woman’s NAME, and you STILL deny stealing her story?

What a thieving little snot!

Here’s another article on that note. A quote:

It’s funny. In the book, ‘The Help,’ Skeeter–the character based on phony ‘anti-racism’ crusader Stockett–gives a significant portion of her book advance to the Black maid named Aibileen (which is pronounced the same way Ablene pronounces hers). In real life, Stockett gave Ablene nothing as she continues to make money off of her.

...

But Kathryn Stockett expressly refused Cooper’s request and right to privacy, and ripped off her name and destroyed her reputation. The movie is being heavily marketed to the Black community and to liberal White women, none of whom know the real story here about the dissing of Ablene Cooper. The New York Times even referred to “The Help” as a “history lesson.” PUH-LEEZE. Some real history is missing, like what Kathryn Stockett did."

http://www.theloosh.com/blog/archives/5725

There’s nothing unusual about such compensation claims in America, but what makes Abilene’s writ different is that she is claiming just £50,000 in damages, hardly a fortune when set against the millions the author will earn from the book and the movie deal.
Abilene’s lawyer, Edward Sanders, says: ‘It’s not about money for Abilene. It’s about hypocrisy. The Help’s big appeal is to white people. It makes them feel good because it’s about a white woman who reaches across the racial divide to help poor black servants.
Well, let me tell you, it hasn’t done anything to help Abilene. She feels Stockett is just one more white woman who has exploited an African-American.’

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-2033369/Her-family-hired-maid-12-years-stole-life-Disney-movie.html

This sums it up brilliantly. The whole rant is brilliant. I wish I could post the whole thing. Since we can't, read the rest at the link.

Some of the most racist shit I’ve ever seen, as a matter of fact. And this is the kind of thing we put out when we finally have our first “officially black” president. We’ve come so fucking far, haven’t we.

Anybody who told you to read this book, or see this movie… they obviously don’t know a damn thing about history, and they certainly didn’t think critically when they indulged in this shit either.

Question anybody who recommended this like a good thing. It’s really offensive, when you consider the implications.

“A big, warm girlfriend of a book about female love that transcends race and class.” – The Times

Are you fucking kidding me? A big warm girlfriend of a book? Oh yeah, because black housemaids were our girlfriends. Right.

What a crock of shit.

http://www.theloosh.com/blog/archives/5725

here’s what all the toiletry was building up to:

Yep. Shit pie.

Not Pretty Women.

Shitty Women

I changed my mind. I want to see this now in an angry way.

Keep those comments coming. This is good stuff.

[Neoma]

21. Therein lies the problem.

" The Help’s big appeal is to white people. It makes them feel good because it’s about a white woman who reaches across the racial divide to help poor black servants."

The entire reason it was allowed. Because people feel good about people doing good. Black people were wronged in the past? Let's give them a welcoming gesture, and symbolically use the past as a way to do it.

[obamanut2012]

23. I knew about the lawsuit, which shows what a poser Stockett was

In addition to everything else. LOVE YOUR POST! I have to go do something, so I'm going to write more later, but I HAD to touch base with you on this, if only to tell you I'm totally stealing this:

What the f* do you know about your Black maid?

SERIOUSLY!

You have to go Redbox the movie and watch it! It does have real meat among the offal.

[mistertrickster]

22. As history, the movie clearly fails.

I agree with the writer about that. The only real violence shown (to perpetuate the apartheid and racism) is the off-screen police beating given to a black maid.

In real life during the Civil Rights Movement, some of these women would have been killed for what the movie showed them doing. It's not a fun, nostalgic period we all "got through" and "got over." The writer is correct on those points.

However, I thought the uplifting relationship between the black nanny Constance and the white girl Skeeter was an example of women empowering each other which the critic seemed to miss. Although Constance was constrained by her society to fulfill a menial role of servitude for the white patri- and matriarchy, she refused to be confined in her mind and thinking, and passed on her ideals to a younger generation that could start to put them into action.

[obamanut2012]

24. Skeeter's maid's name was Constantine

But, I think you make a valid point, even if it was handled a bit tone-deaf. There was a significant number of educated young men and women from the pre-integration who could not stand to live in the Deep South. Some for adventure, young women mainly for the societal constraints forced upon them (marriage, Junior league, babies, Ladies Auxiliary), but also quite a few left because of what we would call political reasons: conservatism gone mad, violence, racism, surrounding poverty and ignorance.

I do think, mistertrickster, that more than a few of these young men and women discovered limitations and cruelty of their society through the lives the Black women who cared for them and their homes, and the Black men who labored for their fathers, were forced to live. And the very narrow path of those lives, with pain and death on either side of that path, waiting like land mines.

I also thought the relationship between Minnie and the "poor white" newlywed Celia was affecting and interesting, because the "poor whites" were also despised by the same White Society that ground down the Blacks in that society.

[JustAnotherGen]

33. I did not like the movie

I did not like the book.

The cheating of the real life Abilene aside? And it's horrible - absolutely horrible - and NOPE! She won't win. Those of us who are black women know that we are still lowest on the totem pole in America - okay . . .

WHY NOW? And we've discussed this a bit in the African American forum.

Now - this is Feminism and Diversity but I don't care. . . I was directed her in another thread . . .

Why now when the 'ideal' of Feminity in America is a self made African American woman who doesn't have a typical caucasian women body shape, dark skin, has not lightened her skin or thinned her nose and is adored by her black JD holding husband who just happens to be the President of the United States?


Why this book? This movie? Now. I think it not only allows white folks to 'feel good' about bridging the racial divide - it reminds us that hey! You want to be loved/like by white people? Just be a maid and take care of their kids. Aspire to that and all will be right in America again.


Not saying this about the membership of DU - just America in general.

If you are a woman perceived as black (I'm bi-racial but I self identify as black as that's how America defines me) in America - you know it in your gut. You know it's true.

[ScreamingMeemie]

34. You know...you've made me rethink my enjoyment of the book.

I read the book in two days (could not put it down) but admit that I did not care for the movie. Perhaps it is because it made me think too much about the stereotypes that didn't seem as vivid on paper. Stepping out my own shoes (middle aged, white, single mother) and into yours- does make one think. Why now?

Thank you so much for your thoughtful input Just.

[Starry Messenger]

36. "Why now?"

I hadn't even thought of that, though it did seem like a very retrograde book. It seemed wrong to me that it was hailed at *the* book to read on race relations in the mainstream press, in a way that was very frantic in tone. It seemed suspicious.