Why are the forums that I favor - occupy, progressive, labor, women, etc so non-active?

[ellenrr]

I have been thinking for several months, that eventually, these forums will take off - but I am clearly wrong.

your thoughts?

[pipoman]

1. Don't know about all, but "safe havens" have no controversy

So there isn't much to talk about beyond mutual admiration. .

[ellenrr]

4. in my experience there is a lot to talk about - minus controversy for the sake of controversy

which governs many forums, imo.

online and in real life, with people whom I share fundamental values - nevertheless we find lots to talk about - there is always disagreement about means to the end, or analysis, or what is to be done, or strategy.
very little mutual admiration actually!

[pipoman]

5. My experience is that none of those disagreements are allowed

That a few bullies in the "safe havens" determine who can and can't disagree with them...anyone they can't bully are banished. .look at the lists of those banned from the safe havens. Look at the activity in the non safe haven forums and their safe haven counterparts. ..the two gungeons are an example.

[Demeter]

2. I don't have any news sources for these topics specifically

I concentrate on economics with politics on the side. If these two intersect with women, labor or the others, I don't go to specific fora to post, since I find that the main topic (economics) satisfies all my curiosities of all the aspects you list.

Follow the money, I always say.

Furthermore, after watching the dive-bombing that goes in these small areas, and having experienced some of that combat, I have no taste for it. Let those trolls, twits and partisans battle amongst themselves. They contribute nothing to my understanding of the subjects, and do no good for my regard for people in general.

In short, why paint a target on yourself?

If we were a sub rosa forum for Occupy, that would be different. But we aren't, and couldn't be.

The BOG has shut down all progressive discussion repeatedly, impugned posters of long standing, alerted for the most ridiculous of reasons, and completely shut off the conversation more times than I can count.

In short, this website (DU) is not geared to do what you want it to do. Nor is there any interest on the part of the Owners to fix that. Which is why I pretty much put my energy into the Stock Market Watch and the Weekend Economists threads. A group of like-minded, BS intolerant posters created a protected spot for haven and information sharing. We are a true community, providing education, humor and support.

You are welcome to stop in, see for yourself, stay a while, etc. It's not a closed group. But we do have more lookers-on than active participants. I suppose that's only natural. Not everyone has an axe to grind or a search for the Holy Grail going on.

[ellenrr]

3. well I have not experienced 'dive-bombing' on the forums I mentioned.

then, I have not been here as long as many.

but I do agree that du is not geared to be the place I am looking for...

[mopinko]

6. maybe their local occupy groups are flagging, too.

mine is a joke. nothing but a lot of carping, much of it quite displaced. tho they have brought some attention to worthwhile issues, they mostly are just cranks who hate the alderman. one of the most decent politicians i know. and the kindest. and the most inclusive. and have thereby alienated most of the local progressives that WERE on their side.
i suspect a lot of local groups ended up walking down a similar cul-de-sc.

if their own groups were working, it would show up here.
i'm pretty disappointed in the movement. such a great start.

we can certainly thank them for lighting the candle, tho. it IS still burning.

[CrispyQ]

7. I think the loners forum is the least active of all.

[Joe Shlabotnik]

8. Du has changed a lot over the years.

For the longest time there was a sense of unity; Anti-Bush, anti-war. Then a great deal of unity around the notion of hope and change after the economy tanked, slightly later the Occupy group was formed. However some of the more radical and vocal elements of the Occupy group were purged, and some only briefly drifted over from DU2 and then felt unwelcome.

I don't think many people go much further than general discussion, or the greatest page nowadays. One look at the most discussed threads, or the multiple (usually similar) threads about the 'outrage du jour' in GD suggest that in a vacuum, purged of radicals and dreamers, and starved of hope, that many of the participants are there to engage in bloodsport and bickering.

Chomsky's remark that “The smart way to keep people passive and obedient is to strictly limit the spectrum of acceptable opinion, but allow very lively debate within that spectrum....” strikes me as fairly apt.

I also hope that some of the more non-mainstream groups pick up, and one lesson of history teaches that no-one has the foresight to accurately predict the event that ends up sparking a sea-change. However, the Labor group is kept pretty well stocked with news and info daily, and the socialist progressives group produces some great discussions, and has picked up some momentum lately. The Occupy group is one of the most unique groups on DU, since it is leaderless, and open to interpretation and reinvention as the Occupy movement diversifies, and similar movements rise and fall globally.

[ellenrr]

9. thanks. thoughtful analysis.

(which is also pretty unique

[ellenrr]

12. Joe, if you can answer this w/o getting yourself in trouble with the Powers:

"the more radical and vocal elements of the Occupy group were purged"

wondering if they were purged bec. they criticized Obama, bec. that pretty much seems to be a no-no.

[truedelphi]

23. Very much resonate with your words.

I spend far more time at other bulletin boards and also at Facebook, as the amount of topics that are actually verbotten now on DU is way too much.

Well, to be fair, those topics can be discussed on DU, as long as you say that you either are totally for them, and totally believe everything that Big Pharma is saying (as is the case with the vaccine issue) or else you are a troll for Big Pharma and say that, and the same with geo enginnering - you can discuss geo engineering all you want as long as you label anyone who is concerned about it as a conspiracy theorist with an IQ of five. (If geo engineering is balderdash - then why are all the relevant patents being announced on a weekly if not a daily basis? And why do companies like Raytheon develop those patents? And why are there conferences held in California every single year by the "industry leaders" who get their top physics and science people to attend?)

So why would I be here as much as I once was? It has become far too easy to simply go to newer discussion boards where my chosen friends add to my information level on those topics. Also, at the newer forums, I can avoid the trolls and the people dismissing what I feel are crucial issues of the twenty first century as balderdash. On the other social media forums, I also discover some of my longtime DU friends who either gave up here or were banned from here years ago.

[snot]

10. I agree with your concerns, and with much others have said above.

I think the biggest problem is that DU's been subdivided into too many groups/topics; I agree that people don't check out the subgroups very much.

I think it made sense to divvy things up somewhat . . . I like separating the non-political (Lounge, Science, Art) from the political stuff, and can also see some use in having separate fora for state jurisdictions . . . Maybe also dividing international from national issues . . .

But generally, I think there are WAY too many subdivisions now.

[ellenrr]

11. I agree. It's one of the reasons I am an infrequent visitor here..

there should be one progressive place,
labor+ Occupy+ socialist progressives
where intelligent people of similar values could communicate.

but in general DU encourages people who enjoy engaging in long, drawn-out slams: "you're an idiot" "No, you're an idiot" that go on for 100 responses, and who really gives a fuck?

[Chathamization]

13. Not a lot of people on DU seem to care about activism.

GD is the most active forum (I think?), but most topics about activism sink pretty fast. You're going to get 20 times the amount of replies talking about the problems in passing the ACA than you are about efforts to get single-payer at the state level. But I haven't been able to find any site that's particularly good about discussing activism; most are interested in the medias current outrage.

If you do find a good one, though, be sure to share it.

[ellenrr]

14. I agree! there is this facebook group about getting single-payer-

https://www.facebook.com/groups/566276650098248/
which I joined to try to find a local group in my area that was working toward single-payer.
(didn't find one).
I guess in one sense, activism and internet are contradictory: If we're typing at our computers, we're not in the streets. But at its best, internet can aid activism, I think in our country, it mostly replaces activism.

[captfoster5]

15. Probably not as active ...

but I started this single payer group a few years ago and it has over 4500 members, of which less than 30 actually comment or post anything, so there is that to consider --> https://www.facebook.com/groups/119149308126296/

[Chathamization]

16. Yes, the internet could be a huge boon for activism. From my experience, some ways it could help

are:

1. Sharing tips/methods/stories. A lot of time when we try to do anything here, it's like we're reinventing the wheel. A lot of the time it would be helpful to talk to people who've done the thing we're trying to do (pass a ballot initiative, retake the local party, etc.).

2. Encouraging others to get involved. This is one of the things that frustrates me the most about the Left blogs - it seems like they don't really care about using their giant soapbox for good. There are a ton of people disengaged, and it would be great if some of the people considered intellectual leaders would tell them to find local groups and start knocking on doors - but instead are more interested in pontificate about the latest media circus.

3. Networking. There are a number of people out there who are interested in getting involved, but they don't know where to start. There should be a much better progressive information network. It's always a bit annoying on week 11 of a 14 week project to run into active progressives who had just heard about what was happening.

4. Getting the word out. There are a lot of people who don't have time to knock on doors but would appreciate an informed discussion from people they trust. There are a lot of people out there who don't know that, say, there's a good progressive running in the primary, but who would appreciate the information and make an effort to turn out and vote if they're given the information.

You're right, most of the time "politics" on the internet (often gossip rag stuff about politicians) replaces activism. I suppose we can only try to get the word out and push people to try to spend at least a bit of time thinking about what they can do.

(and thanks to both you and captfoster5 for the single-payer groups; I signed up for both)

[lenrely]

18. Re:

Although I'm a newcomer myself I've found so far that the reasons people of like minds are distanced from each other are all "stupid" reasons. The people whose posts I'm most inclined to follow I didn't stumble upon until a year after they were posted. There's a message board that gave me 150 hits in two days simply because you can post links into the subject heading (they don't have to read before clicking) and yet there's another board where I got none at all. Going to see what this one can do.

[ellenrr]

19. I have an idea that if all the thinking people on du were to stop reacting to trolls,

we could have some good discussions.

It's sad that a thread could go on for 200 responses, and 98% of them are,
"You're an idiot. No, you're an idiot".

do people not have enough to do in life?

and yet there are people on du whose posts are a joy to read, bec. they are thoughtful and illuminating.
but shit, is it worth digging thru garbage to find a pearl?

when you don't know for sure if the pearl will be there... altho for sure the garbage is there...

[Chathamization]

25. 95% of the posts also seem to come from about 5% of the users. Post limits would be nice. Some

people seem to live here and suck up all the air from anyone else that would like to have a conversation (the worst is when 5-6 people decide to have a feud, and they each decide to create 3-4 topics based on that feud).

Honestly, I'd like to see a forum with post limits, where an individual could only make 2-3 topics a day (and maybe only start 3-4 a week). I know longer have the stamina to wade through pages and pages of garbage looking for pearls. This seems to be a problem in most online places - people with real lives just can't compete with people who live online (which is why there's such a disproportionate amount of Ron Paul types online, for example).

[truedelphi]

22. I really like the idea of posting a link that is clickable into the header.

Wish that was possible here.

[Bill USA]

20. well, I don't know if this will make you feel any better but I'd like to see more criticism of media

but the Media forum is one of the deadest in all of DU. (I guess, if they created a forum called: "Why I like John Boehner" that would be deader). I posted something back in February and another in April and THEY STILL HAVEN'T MOVED OFF THE FIRST PAGE!

... Well, just thought I'd let you know you're not alone in your favored forums chagrin.

[ellenrr]

21. thanks bill, I didn't even know there WAS a media forum...

I just recently discovered an anthropology forum, which looks interesting.

I gave up, and now basically only frequent latest news and general discussion. GD is so active, not that I read a thread when the posts get up to 350. lol

but I try to find something of interest.
GD is also the snarkiest place, and I know a lot of people avoid it for that reason.

from what many people say, du has changed a lot (and not for the better) in recent years.

take care,
ellen

[Bill USA]

24. Anthropology? ... I didn't uncover that one (ha-ha). I agree, it sounds interesting! You might

... check out Good Reads for more serious discussions. I rarely look at GD. Too much of a circus IYAM (If You Ask Me.. I made that up!).

Good Luck!