Hillary - Why Did Bill Pardon Mark Rich?

[scottie55]

Was it the $1,000,000 his wife gave to the foundation?

The point is no one in the corporate press will ask her this question.

They are all in on it......

Obviously

America = Dead

What the HRC supporters don't understand is the fact that there are millions of us who are tired of being robbed, ripped off, and watching our world collapse, while the Mark Rich's of the world avoid prosecution. The billionaires don't even have to pay their taxes. Just like our largest corporations. But we have to.

We Will Not Take It Any More

Goldman Sachs will not be running our country any more.

Period.

[Wellstone ruled]

1. Right on.

Amazing how tone deaf our Leadership Class is. They as a collective group just do not give a rip.

[scottie55]

2. What the Panama Papers Tells Us About Global Capitalism...

Were Done Being Ripped Off By The 1%

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1017353617

[Enthusiast]

63. Unfortunately they're not done ripping us off.

[Buzz Clik]

3. Why did Hillary steal all the White House silverware?

Why did the Clintons trash Air Force One before leaving?

Why did Bill Clinton sell high grade, low sulfur, Utah coal to the Chinese?

These and other lies brought to you by Karl Rove's smear machine.

Thanks for bringing them back, Sanders fans! Show a lot of insight.

[Schema Thing]

4. is the Marc Rich thing a lie?

[rhett o rick]

7. Don't expect any kind of discussion. Only ranting and distractions. nm

[7962]

10. You wont get an answer. You were supposed to cower & go away.

Posts like that are typical mis-direction, just like a skilled magician

[bvar22]

99. Only this one is not very "skilled".

A child could see through his "mis-directions".
Ever been to a really BAD Magic Show? The above is worse.

[HillareeeHillaraah]

32. My understanding is that the crimes of Marc Rich (and Pincus Green) ...

Legally should have had civil penalties not criminal penalties. Remember, this was at a time when republicans were throwing EVERYTHING they could at ANY democrat, especially those a who supported Clinton.

Marc Rich and Pincus Green 's company paid over $200 million in fines and penalties. Clinton pardoned the criminal charges and left them on the hook for further civil suits.

You could read more about his decision here:
http://www.nytimes.com/2001/02/18/opinion/18CLIN.html

[JDPriestly]

36. Whether the criminal charges would result in criminal convictions is something only a court

can decide.

The pardons of Marc Rich and Pincus Green without first allowing them a trial followed by the exchanges of money whether with a charity or anything else look like pure corruption of the most obvious and despicable kind.

A criminal charge can be dropped by the prosecutor or tried in a court and perhaps dismissed by the court. But a presidential pardon for criminal charges followed by a gift of money to the president or his foundation strongly suggests corruption.

A shameful moment in Bill Clinton's presidency.

[jzola]

48. Why is Hillary supposed to answer for Bill?

[JDPriestly]

51. Because when she talks about her experience, she includes her time in the White House as

Bill's wife. She and Bill said we were getting a twofer when we elected Bill, both Hillary and Bill.

This is not a concept created by Bernie supporters to bring down Hillary. They were a team in the White House and were proud of that fact. She is responsible for Bill's policies for that reason.

[Politicalboi]

57. It's called Coattails

It's ALL she's got going for her. And it ain't pretty anymore.

[Kokonoe]

61. Because she wants to be President?

[FreakinDJ]

53. Didn't Marc Rich flee the country to avoid prosecution

I think we are discussing 2 separate penalties here

1) Corporate Penalties and Fines

2) Criminal Liabilities - which Clinton pardon Marc Rich from

The fact his wife placed a cool $1Million in the Clinton Foundation was "Icing on the Cake" proving once again 2 separate systems of justice.

1) Extracted out of Black and Brown Teenagers at the end of Law Enforcement's service revolver

2) The Wealthy Elites Money driven defense as seen by Marc Rich and OJ Simpson

[HillareeeHillaraah]

56. Holy crap!

OJ brutally murdered two people!

That's a steep 'six degrees' of making two things seem similar.....

[FreakinDJ]

59. Actually Marc Rich got a better deal for his $1Million

I think OJ paid $5Million


Point being neither spent a day in jail for their crime

[Kokonoe]

64. That's right, OJ is Innocent, because he had a trial.

Marc Rich, was pardoned for a million dollars.

BIG DIFFERENCE.

[FreakinDJ]

68. Thanks to Bill Clinton

[dflprincess]

71. OJ was found "not guilty"

which is not the same as innocent.

[Divernan]

83. YOUR understanding? Oh! didn't know you were a federal judge!

I get it! Why should a member of the One Percent have to go through that pesky appellate process when they can just slip a million to the Clinton Foundation!!?!?!

[HillareeeHillaraah]

87. Your snark becomes you

have a pleasant day!

[Divernan]

88. High praise re snark coming from you!

Cause you da man - or woman.

I'm a retired lawyer and law professor - you got any legal creds?

[Buzz cook]

46. Yes it is nt

nt

[leveymg]

52. From what I've read, Rich was pardoned at the urging of the Israelis.

Mossad has a word for active agent of influence. Rich was one of those.

Looks like his widow was grateful.

[zalinda]

5. What crap!

No one said anything about these weird things. The Clintons are not angels, not even close. They have proven over and over again that they only care for themselves and the 1%. Open your eyes. At any time, for any reason, you could become one of us poor.

Z

[rhett o rick]

6. We are tired of the corrupt culture that the Clintons represent. nm

[fun n serious]

12. Release Tax reurns

then talk about who is corrupt!

[rhett o rick]

39. LOL. Is this the new birther theme? I think we need a lesson in perspective.

Sen Sanders is apples and H. Clinton is Jupiter.

Release the speech transcripts.

[fun n serious]

60. I want those returns and so does America

What is he hiding?

[SammyWinstonJack]

77. So what do you think he's hiding?

[fun n serious]

78. I think.. assets changed to wife's name and put in an off shore account (MY OPINION)

[Spitfire of ATJ]

8. Did they rent out the Lincoln Bedroom?

[Buzz Clik]

30. Let's ask the Sanders campaign. They'll consult Rove and get back to us...

[Spitfire of ATJ]

31. Rove was a Bush Era dude....

You have to go back to Limbaugh.

He can't WAIT for his big comeback.

[rhett o rick]

40. Projection. Rove is a Bush Crime Family operative on loan to their good friends the Clinton Family.

[Spitfire of ATJ]

72. I thought Rove changed his name to Brock.

[rhett o rick]

79. With Clinton's money she can afford both. nm

[Buzz Clik]

92. Irrational rhetoric is not my friend.

See what I did there?

[rhett o rick]

93. Situational ethics is not your friend either. Why did The Big Dog pardon Rich?

It was corruption thru and thru but those that idolize the Clinton and their Pseudo-Aristocracy are blinded by their adulation.

Speak out about the Republicon corruption but close your eyes when it's the Clintons.

[Buzz Clik]

94. And why is this heaped on Hillary?

There is no answer to this that doesn't come from the Freeper Bible of Clinton Despise.

I'd suggest you just drop it.

[rhett o rick]

95. How typical, you can't refute direct facts so you try to distract or "just drop it".

Your Big Dog Bill traded a pardon for cash. Very straight forward. The corrupt culture of big money permeates our government. I bet you agree except for some reason are bling to the involvement of the Clintons. The corruption that you are willing to ignore leads directly to job losses, poor or no health care coverage, lost homes, more homelessness, more infant mortality, a crumbling infrastructure that the 99% will have to pay for, and deaths in Iraq and other wars for corporate profits.

How many Americans have to sink into poverty before you recognize that wealth in the most part is zero-sum. The more profits you let Goldman-Sachs steal from us, the less food we have, the less health care, the less Social Security, the more deaths.

[Buzz Clik]

96. Enough tangents. Re-read the OP. Re-read my question: Why would the OP heap Rich on HRC?

Are you going to answer my question or not?

[rhett o rick]

97. A common thread running thru the Clinton supporters is audacity. "Do this, read that,

answer my questions." Homey don't play that game.

There are two sides to the Class War and not only is Clinton a big time member of the "Rich and Powerful", she accepts money from her friends in the 1% and 0.1%. She is not fighting for us.

[Buzz Clik]

98. I'm responding to an OP blaming HRC, and you consider it audacity for me to ask you to do likewise?

Bottom line: your only response is Bernie's only response.

Message received.

Have the last word.

[Loki]

90. ^This^

They have had this in the pipeline for a very long time.

[dchill]

19. YOU are the one bringing up the lies.

What good does that do you?

[rhett o rick]

42. It's an attempt at a distraction. While she stands next to the Clinton mansion on fire she yells,

"Hey look over there, Bernie Sanders' shoelaces are undone."

[rachacha]

20. Uhh...there's a pretty clear public record of this pardon and the money that changed hands

ABC News: Denise Rich Gave $450,000 to Clinton Library
http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/story?id=121846&page=1

The ex-wife of fugitive commodities giant Marc Rich donated $450,000 to the Clinton presidential library before then-President Clinton pardoned the billionaire last month, ABCNEWS has learned.

PBS Newshour: Pardon Probe: Mark Rich
http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/politics-jan-june01-pardonprobe_02-08/

LA Times: Carter Calls Pardon of Rich "Disgraceful"
http://articles.latimes.com/2001/feb/21/news/mn-28265

Wikipedia: Mark Rich: US Indictment and Controversial Pardon
http://articles.latimes.com/2001/feb/21/news/mn-28265

[stupidicus]

33. dishonest dodges = tacit concession of the veracity of that dodged

thanks

[Scuba]

82. So if the Clintons were falsely accused of one crime they're innocent of all crimes?

Pretzel logic.

[Buzz Clik]

85. Why is Hillary guilty of every conjured "crime" that Bill committed? Guilt by association?

What the f*ck could Mark Rich have to do with HRC?

Or is it simply fun to pretend you're Karl Rove and dish out all the bullsh*t that crosses your mind?

[Loki]

89. They just can't help themselves.

If it's negative, they don't care where it came from.

[Buzz Clik]

91. ... or if there's a shred of truth in it .

[IdaBriggs]

9. Please date stamp the accusations. I believe the pardon was BEFORE

the existence of the Clinton Foundation.

A better answer might have been "because they were friends."

[dorkzilla]

13. You should self-delete

Personal attacks are not done around here, or they shouldn't be.

ETA - thank you for deleting. We're all on the same side (Bernie's that is) - no need to sling mud.

[IdaBriggs]

14. Please a) quit personally insulting me and b) investigate/respond with facts.

As I said, I believe the Foundation DID NOT EXIST when the pardon occurred.

I also recall hearing about a large donation made by the wife.

Please make sure you are not conflating separate organizations.

Do you understand me? Keep it FACTUAL and more importantly, CIVIL.

[lastone]

80. I apologize for my uncivil post.

Sincerely

[dorkzilla]

15. I'm sure the Clinton Foundation was started

so they could 'tidy up' the quid pro quo and hide it underneath a veneer of respectability.

[rhett o rick]

43. Help me out here. Can Bill and Hillary go to work for the Foundation any time they want?

If so, it could be a very lucrative retirement plan. Also, does Chelsea get paid by the Foundation?

[snagglepuss]

76. She sure does. Its either $600,000 or $675,000 a year.

[jhart3333]

16. Why does the donation need to be before the pardon? Still looks like quid pro quo to me.

[dorkzilla]

17. It *IS* quid pro quo, Ida was not suggesting otherwise

Merely pointing out the Clinton Foundation was just a twinkle in Bill's eye when the Rich's "bequeathed" their gift. Just pointing out a fact, not making excuses at all.

[jhart3333]

18. Disagree. "Because they were friends" is not quid pro quo. 1 million dollars is.

[dorkzilla]

21. Please don't be so pedantic

Pointing out that the Foundation was started after the Rich pardon is what the post was about. No on is arguing over the fact that the Clintons are willing to be bought.

[jhart3333]

26. Not looking for a fight here. We're all on the same side.

The very meaning of quid pro quo is something for something. Doing something out of friendship is something for nothing other than the good feeling you get. Pointing that out is not being pedantic. I'm sorry if I misunderstood both you and Ida.

[dorkzilla]

38. No worries!

We'll all just keep fighting the good fight.

[AgerolanAmerican]

27. hey for a million dollars

I'll be your friend

(cash, small unmarked bills please)

[rhett o rick]

44. Quid pro quo works both ways. It doesn't matter who does the favor first. nm

[IdaBriggs]

22. Thank you and correct.

Every great idea has to start somewhere, right?

[2cannan]

28. Clinton Foundation founded 1997.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clinton_Foundation

[IdaBriggs]

54. First line says 2001.

From your link -- https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clinton_Foundation

The Clinton Foundation (founded in 2001 as the William J. Clinton Foundation, and called during 2013–15 the Bill, Hillary & Chelsea Clinton Foundation) is a nonprofit corporation under section 501(c)(3) of the U.S. tax code. It was established by former President of the United States Bill Clinton with the stated mission to "strengthen the capacity of people throughout the world to meet the challenges of global interdependence."

[2cannan]

58. Says 1997 at the top of page right under the logo.

Name changed to Wm J Clinton Foundation 2001.

[IdaBriggs]

65. Okay, I just followed links.

In 1997 the organization to fund the "after he's a President library" was started. It got funded, and life moved on as Bill was not involved in it since he had a full time job as President.

Meanwhile, Marc Rich had issues, and in 1983 he was being charged with tons of stuff - he fled the country, and became a "most wanted". His daughter passed in 1996 and he didn't even come to the funeral.

His wife became very politically active. On the last day in office, Bill pardoned Marc Rich.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marc_Rich#U.S._indictment_and_controversial_pardon

"Clinton's critics alleged that Rich's pardon had been bought, as Denise Rich had given more than $1 million to Clinton's political party (the Democratic Party), including more than $100,000 to the Senate campaign of the president's wife, Hillary Rodham Clinton, and $450,000 to the Clinton Library foundation during Clinton's time in office."

After he left office, bored Bill became active in the library non-profit, and it was renamed as a result to reflect the new mission. He has tons of important and influential people donating to it, and he does them favors. To the untrained eye, it looks like a nice money laundering operation run by a mafia family.

Phew!

[2cannan]

67. I agree with you about it looking like a money laundering op, Ida.

I thought your understanding-Hillary's-email-issues-for-non-techies-post was great, too!

[JDPriestly]

37. The gift was to the Clinton library.

Stinks of corruption.

[HillareeeHillaraah]

23. Take what you want from this but...

Here's Bill Clinton's legal reasoning for the pardons.

http://www.nytimes.com/2001/02/18/opinion/18CLIN.html

[Festivito]

24. That pardon only took away jail time for NOT USING SHELL CORPORATIONS through Panama, et. al.

The taxes still had to be paid.
Even then, Bill, not Hillary, pardoned.

And, a million dollars to a legacy item for people with as much money as Bill and Hillary from someone who has thousands times that much does not seem to be enough of a bribe to be worthy of anything extra to me.

[A Simple Game]

69. You seem to forget the Clinton's were broke when they left the White House. Hillary said so.

Even so, at their present worth, about $130 million or so, that would still be 1/130th of their worth. Nothing to sneeze at. Or 4 speeches, do you know how much work it is to give 4 speeches?

[SoapBox]

25. We will get an answer at the same time she releases her Wall Street transcripts.

Waiting.

No More Clintons EVER.

[ish of the hammer]

29. As an atheist - "From your lips to god's ears"!

[stupidicus]

34. well, her supporters either support that kinda thing and worse

or are ignorant of it, in which case they should use google more and post less

[baldguy]

35. And Vince Foster gets his corpse paraded around in: 3, ... 2, ...

The RW BS from the BS camp never ends, it seems.

[JDPriestly]

41. And that is what we will have to live with until the November election and beyond if Hillary

is our candidate. I sure hope she isn't.

I have liberal friends who actually believe the stupid story about Vince Foster. She will not win in November for a multitude of reasons and this is one of them: Vince Foster.

It may seem ridiculous to you and me but that's politics in America.

[rhett o rick]

47. Well the Clintons certainly have a lot of baggage. And if the RW has so much on them, maybe Sanders

would be a better candidate.

Just because an allegation is made by the Right doesn't mean it's nothing. In this case the facts are very clear and you haven't refuted any of them.

[baldguy]

62. When there's mudslinging going on, it's mudslingers that are to blame - not their target.

And just because the RW extremists - that we all supposedly are opposed to - have had the Clintons in their sights for a very long time, does not make their allegations any more valid.

You seem to believe that a repetition of a lie makes it less untrue. That's exactly what the RW wants you to think.

[scottie55]

70. Excuse Me?

When Clinton pardoned Rich it had nothing to do with right wing crap. I hate Republicans.

"Marc Rich stood accused of evading more than $48 million in federal income taxes, making the case against him the biggest tax fraud case in American history, and if convicted faced a maximum sentence of more than 300 years in jail. Prior to the indictments, he fled to Switzerland, and for 17 years the U.S. government had been unable to get permission from the Swiss government to extradite him."

http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/story?id=121848&page=1

We are being ripped off.

The Swiss could be forced to hand him over. They weren't. Nobody cares right?

I care.

I pay my taxes.

Why don't the Mark Rich's of the world have to?

[baldguy]

75. The problem here isn't that you're being ripped off - the problem is that you're being played.

[Blue_Adept]

50. The corpse has long been dusted off

And some around these parts have paraded a few times, disturbingly so.

[bluestateguy]

81. And the Clintons had Ron Brown murdered!

And didn't you see that list going around of all the people around the Clintons who mysteriously ended up dead?! I know because My brother in-law e-mailed it to me.

[Buzz cook]

45. You must be a big Rudy Giuliani fan

That's who prosecuted Rich, using a law that had never been used for criminal prosecution of an individual before.

By the by there was a quid pro quo for the pardon, it was that Rich pay all the relevant fines and make restitution for his illegal acts.

Way to bring back a conservative talking point though.

[scottie55]

66. Why The Donation Then?

If pardon was legit?

Pay to play.

EOM.

[Buzz cook]

100. Well maybe there should be an investigation? Oh wait

There were several. None of which found wrong doing.

Is it your claim that the republican controlled congress went easy on Clinton in this case?

[azmom]

55. The corruption is blatant. Nt

[Chicago1980]

73. How about you ask Bill instead of Hillary seeing as it was him who did the pardoning.

[scottie55]

74. Bill / Hillary = Same Thing

Joint checking account.....

[Divernan]

84. When Bill said "2 for the price of 1" the emphasis was on PRICE!

[marble falls]

86. From wikipedia:

U.S. indictment and controversial pardon
2001 The Controversial Pardon of International Fugitive Marc Rich

In 1983 Rich and partner Pincus Green were indicted on 65 criminal counts, including income tax evasion, wire fraud, racketeering, and trading with Iran during the oil embargo (at a time when Iranian revolutionaries were still holding American citizens hostage).[17][7] The charges would have led to a sentence of more than 300 years in prison had Rich been convicted on all counts.[17] The indictment was filed by then-U.S. Federal Prosecutor (and future mayor of New York City) Rudolph Giuliani. At the time it was the biggest tax evasion case in U.S. history.[18]

Hearing of the plans for the indictment, Rich fled[9] to Switzerland and, always insisting that he was not guilty, never returned to the U.S. to answer the charges.[Notes 1] Rich's companies eventually pled guilty to 35 counts of tax evasion and paid $90 million in fines,[7] although Rich himself remained on the Federal Bureau of Investigation's Ten Most-Wanted Fugitives List for many years,[20] narrowly evading capture in Britain, Germany, Finland, and Jamaica.[21] Fearing arrest, he did not even return to the United States to attend his daughter's funeral in 1996.[22]

On January 20, 2001, hours before leaving office, U.S. President Bill Clinton granted Rich a highly controversial presidential pardon. Several of Clinton's strongest supporters distanced themselves from the decision.[23] Former President Jimmy Carter, a fellow Democrat, said, "I don't think there is any doubt that some of the factors in his pardon were attributable to his large gifts. In my opinion, that was disgraceful."[24] Clinton himself later expressed regret for issuing the pardon, saying that "it wasn't worth the damage to my reputation."[9]

Clinton's critics alleged that Rich's pardon had been bought, as Denise Rich had given more than $1 million[25] to Clinton's political party (the Democratic Party), including more than $100,000 to the Senate campaign of the president's wife, Hillary Rodham Clinton, and $450,000 to the Clinton Library foundation during Clinton's time in office.[21] Clinton explained his decision by noting that similar cases were settled in civil, not criminal court.

Clinton also cited clemency pleas he had received from Israeli government officials, including then-Prime Minister Ehud Barak. Rich had made substantial donations to Israeli charitable foundations over the years, and many senior Israeli officials, such as Shimon Peres and Ehud Olmert, argued on his behalf behind the scenes.[26] Speculation about another rationale for Rich's pardon involved his alleged involvement with the Israeli intelligence community.[27][28] Rich reluctantly acknowledged in interviews with his biographer, Daniel Ammann, that he had assisted the Mossad, Israel’s intelligence service,[4][13] a claim that Ammann said was confirmed by a former Israeli intelligence officer.[12] According to Ammann, Rich had helped finance the Mossad's operations and had supplied Israel with strategic amounts of Iranian oil through a secret oil pipeline.[4] The aide to Rich who had persuaded Denise Rich to personally ask President Clinton to review Rich's pardon request was a former chief of the Mossad, Avner Azulay.[22][29] Another former Mossad chief, Shabtai Shavit, had also urged Clinton to pardon Rich,[30] whom he said had routinely allowed intelligence agents to use his offices around the world.[17]

Federal Prosecutor Mary Jo White was appointed to investigate Clinton's last-minute pardon of Rich.[31] She stepped down before the investigation was finished and was replaced by James Comey, who was critical of Clinton's pardons and of then-Deputy Attorney General Eric Holder's pardon recommendation.[32] Rich's lawyer, Jack Quinn, had previously been Clinton's White House Counsel and chief of staff to Clinton's Vice President, Al Gore, and had had a close relationship with Holder.[22] According to Quinn, Holder had advised that standard procedures be bypassed and the pardon petition be submitted directly to the White House.[33][Notes 2] Congressional investigations were also launched. Clinton's top advisors, Chief of Staff John Podesta, White House Counsel Beth Nolan, and advisor Bruce Lindsey, testified that nearly all of the White House staff advising the president on the pardon request had urged Clinton to not grant Rich a pardon.[29] Federal investigators ultimately found no evidence of criminal activity.[30]

As a condition of the pardon, it was made clear that Rich would drop all procedural defenses against any civil actions brought against him by the United States upon his return there. That condition was consistent with the position that his alleged wrongdoing warranted only civil penalties, not criminal punishment. Rich never returned to the United States.[9]

In a February 18, 2001 op-ed essay in The New York Times, Clinton (by then out of office) explained why he had pardoned Rich, noting that U.S. tax professors Bernard Wolfman of the Harvard Law School and Martin Ginsburg of Georgetown University Law Center had concluded that no crime had been committed, and that Rich's companies' tax-reporting position had been reasonable.[19] In the same essay, Clinton listed Lewis "Scooter" Libby as one of three "distinguished Republican lawyers" who supported a pardon for Rich. (Libby himself later received a presidential commutation for his involvement in the Plame affair.) During Congressional hearings after Rich's pardon, Libby, who had represented Rich from 1985 until the spring of 2000, denied that Rich had violated the tax laws but criticized him for trading with Iran at a time when that country was holding U.S. hostages.[35]

[Jackie Wilson Said]

101. Why are you working to get the GOP into the WH if Bernie is not the nominee?

[liberal N proud]

102. Bernie, why can't your wife find the tax returns?