2016 Postmortem
Related: About this forumNBC News: How Bernie Sanders Avoided Disclosing His Personal Finances
How Bernie Sanders Avoided Disclosing His Personal Financesby DAVE LEVINTHAL
As a Democratic presidential hopeful, Sen. Bernie Sanders vociferously argued for political transparency, especially when money was concerned.
Sanders insisted, for example, "on complete transparency regarding the funding of campaigns." He decried "huge piles of undisclosed cash" benefiting candidates.
But when federal law required Sanders to reveal, by May 15, current details of his personal finances, his campaign lawyer asked the Federal Election Commission for a 45-day extension.
Request granted.
On June 30, Sanders' campaign requested a second 45-day extension, saying the senator had "good cause" to delay because of his "current campaign schedule and officeholder duties."
Again, regulators said yes.
Now that Sanders' second extension has expired, spokesman Michael Briggs confirmed to the Center for Public Integrity that the senator won't file a presidential campaign personal financial disclosure after all.
Complete article here:
http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/how-bernie-sanders-avoided-disclosing-his-personal-finances-n633081
bravenak
(34,648 posts)by contacting the IRS.
UCmeNdc
(9,650 posts)George II
(67,782 posts)The Personal Financial disclosure is required by the FEC.
UCmeNdc
(9,650 posts)George II
(67,782 posts)...a Personal Financial Disclosure, as indicated in the article in the OP.
Gothmog
(154,423 posts)synergie
(1,901 posts)UCmeNdc
(9,650 posts)SticksnStones
(2,108 posts)synergie
(1,901 posts)that Bernie should slither down to this standard? And Liberals and progressives are indeed calling out Trump, so why let Bernie off the hook? He did promise, like Trump, to release information, and gave squirrley reasons for not doing so. What are they hiding anyway?
Gothmog
(154,423 posts)George II
(67,782 posts)Even Donald Trump did so.
Sanders filed a request for an extension, then filed a second request for an extension beyond the date of the convention (convenient) and then decided he wasn't a candidate so he never file it.
What makes him so special that he didn't have to do what every other Federal candidate has to do? The big question that many people are asking, "what does he have to hide?"
UCmeNdc
(9,650 posts)LanternWaste
(37,748 posts)No doubt, that's the narrative you use to dismiss and trivialize concerns of this issue, regardless of your fallacious use of "proof" rather than the accurate "evidence."
On the other hand, one wonders if the great reponse to this thread (including yours), this topic and this OP illustrates your premise as wholly without merit.
Sacred cows are sacred, indeed.
UCmeNdc
(9,650 posts)Gothmog
(154,423 posts)tecelote
(5,141 posts)Has Bernie bashing become a sport?
NWCorona
(8,541 posts)George II
(67,782 posts)As fare as "that far back", do you know how many on this site complained all spring about Clinton being a "Goldwater Girl" WAY back in 1964 when she was only 17 years old?
NWCorona
(8,541 posts)I agree with you that Bernie played lose on this but he didn't break any election laws. It's like I said earlier to you. We will just have to wait until March 15th or there abouts to see if Bernie files his annual reports.
I don't like the fact that Hillary was a Goldwater girl at all. I've mentioned that here on this board, as you probably know, I don't think she still holds that kind of political thinking tho. I admire that the people that Hillary holds closest are POC. What irks me are when people use that Hillary was only 17. What does that have to do with anything other than a reference of time?
On a lighter note. Are you the poster that loves Seinfeld too?
George II
(67,782 posts)...but when I was 17 and in high school, I campaigned for a mayoral candidate in NYC - William F. Buckley! As Mel Allen used to say, "how 'bout that?"
People change over the years. Hillary Clinton has demonstrated for decades that she's not truly a "Goldwater girl". On the other hand, if one studied the ideology and history of Barry Goldwater*, they'd realize that to him the country came first, political ideology came second. He was the one who went to see Richard Nixon privately back in 1973 and convinced him to resign.
*William F. Buckley was the same way, he cared more about the United States than he did about conservatism. Conservatives of the 1960s and 1970s were nothing like "conservatism" has been since the Reagan 1980s and onward.
And yes, I am a Seinfeld fanatic!
UCmeNdc
(9,650 posts)Trump proves it does not matter.
QC
(26,371 posts)NWCorona
(8,541 posts)The picture of him handing over his sword is something else.
Also, is it just me or did he clean up good or what?
WhiteTara
(30,155 posts)women and his rape fantasies. But then who really cares...it's only about women.
NWCorona
(8,541 posts)Also, please don't lump me into the woman hater crowd.
Gothmog
(154,423 posts)Trump had an oppo book on Sanders that was two feet thick. http://www.newsweek.com/myths-cost-democrats-presidential-election-521044
So what would have happened when Sanders hit a real opponent, someone who did not care about alienating the young college voters in his base? I have seen the opposition book assembled by Republicans for Sanders, and it was brutal. The Republicans would have torn him apart. And while Sanders supporters might delude themselves into believing that they could have defended him against all of this, there is a name for politicians who play defense all the time: losers....
The Republicans had at least four other damning Sanders videos (I dont know what they showed), and the opposition research folder was almost 2-feet thick. (The section calling him a communist with connections to Castro alone would have cost him Florida.) In other words, the belief that Sanders would have walked into the White House based on polls taken before anyone really attacked him is a delusion built on a scaffolding of political ignorance.
Trump would have destroyed Sanders in the general election
I don's care about most of the material in Trump's book but I do want to know who owns Old Town Media and how Sanders now can afford three houses
synergie
(1,901 posts)just like Donald Trump, all the while attacking others who followed rules he pretends don't apply to him.
UCmeNdc
(9,650 posts)Trump gets away with lying constantly and the voters love it. Why worry about Bernie's background?
LanternWaste
(37,748 posts)It is indeed, ethically convenient to lower the standards on anyone we ourselves support, and rationalize that lowering of standards by pointing towards the lowest standard available.
We'll never be wrong if we predicate our ethics on the lowest common denominator. Yours is the petulant excuse used by seven year olds since time immemorial: "they did it too!!!"
Gothmog
(154,423 posts)I personally do not accept this standard.
synergie
(1,901 posts)and to the same standards I hold Hillary Clinton. Bernie is acting like Trump and I won't lower my standards for any of them.
Why do you keep pointing to Trump when Bernie is doing the same thing, and his supporters keep trying to dismiss it?
He said he'd do these things, HRC already has, surely Bernie should be acting less like Trump and living up to his own word, lest he be called a constant liar, who is shadily hiding his finances, right?
What exactly is the problem with transparency anyway?
Chasstev365
(5,191 posts)baldguy
(36,649 posts)WhiteTara
(30,155 posts)of the Little Bird. That should be all ANYONE needs to know about our new Savior of the Democratic Party which he refuses to join.
Gothmog
(154,423 posts)LanternWaste
(37,748 posts)Without campy and tired movie quotes, many people would be unable to add anything of substance. Actually, I think it yet holds true even with the presence of campy and tired movie quotes as well.
However, we all like to maintain the pretense our additions are somehow relevant, so I get it. You're gonna need a bigger boat...
OneBlueDotBama
(1,432 posts)250 pages of possible violations...Trump Campaign
http://docquery.fec.gov/pdf/964/201701100300074964/201701100300074964.pdf
Response to OneBlueDotBama (Reply #6)
George II This message was self-deleted by its author.
George II
(67,782 posts)Gothmog
(154,423 posts)George II
(67,782 posts)The Donors Who Love Bernie Sanders A Little Too Much
The FEC has notified the campaign that thousands of its 2.4 million contributors may be violating federal limits.
For months, the Federal Election Commission has been writing to the Sanders campaign with warnings that hundreds of his donors have exceeded the $2,700 contribution limit and that hundreds more may be foreign nationals illegally giving Sanders money. The most recent, and by far the longest, letter came on Tuesday and flagged more than 1,500 questionable donors.
http://docquery.fec.gov/pdf/847/201605100300045847/201605100300045847.pdf
645 pages!
yardwork
(64,318 posts)George II
(67,782 posts)...is also required to file a Personal Financial Disclosure. Sanders never filed that in 2016, and took the unprecedented steps of asking TWICE for extensions, the second of which was for a date after the Convention.
I predicted when he first asked for an extension that we'd never see that Disclosure. I'm sorry that I was correct.
dionysus
(26,467 posts)goldman sachs.
you're really going to cast stones from within a glass house on this one?
George II
(67,782 posts)dionysus
(26,467 posts)Clintons Goldman Sachs speeches were contracted and negotiated by the Harry Walker Agency, and her Goldman payments ($225,000 a speech) were on par with her typical speaking fees.
now, i'm not opposed to either ofthem making a living.
George II
(67,782 posts)...who the principles of Old Towne Media LLC are?
NWCorona
(8,541 posts)George II
(67,782 posts)NWCorona
(8,541 posts)Instead of being cryptic. Hillary used GMMB.
George II
(67,782 posts)"In an interview, Devine acknowledged that he has made more money than expected from the campaign, but he noted that he is working for a much lower rate than usual. While he usually gets a double-digit percentage of a campaigns ad spending, the veteran admaker is instead splitting a single-digit-percentage commission with the media buyers at Old Towne Media."
NWCorona
(8,541 posts)A sales commission and that is not uncommon in contracts.
I remember this story when it came out and it didn't make much sense then either other than a rather unheard of media company received a huge ad buy and that it was odd that one of the founders chose to use her maiden name. Since your supplied link hit the net OTM now looks to be a front for Cannal Media Partners.
Personally I'm not surprised or disappointed that a few key campaign officials and vendors made a lot of money. Especially considering that more money could have been if they followed contact norms.
George II
(67,782 posts)Another thing he says in that article is "splitting a single-digit-percentage commission" (actually getting a single digit percentage commission, the other half received by someone else)
Also noted in the article is that "someone else" could be the reason why Sanders refused to file that Federal Personal Financial Disclosure or release his tax returns.
NWCorona
(8,541 posts)why that matters.
Yes. It's the same as when a home buyer asks both Realtors to split the commission. Doesn't always work but it's not uncommon.
That's conjecture but feel free to think that Bernie waited all this time to get rich off of politics.
George II
(67,782 posts)As for getting rich off politics, we don't know. But what I do know is that Sanders' fellow Vermont Senator, Pat Leahy, has a reported net worth much less than Sanders, and he's been at the higher paying Senate job longer than Sanders has been at his House or Senate jobs combined.
NWCorona
(8,541 posts)While $200k over Pat might seem like a lot. It could just be that Bernie has a rental property in his portfolio.
Hassin Bin Sober
(26,691 posts)He wasn't an owner and the seller pays the sale commission. Buyers don't pay a commission. The agents split the sellers money.
Back to the drawing board for you.
George II
(67,782 posts)Next?
Hassin Bin Sober
(26,691 posts)Seller lists with the listing broker/agent and negotiates a commissioner produce a buyer ready willing and able to purchase based on the seller's terms (or negotiated terms). Usually around 6% ish. The listing agent/broker places the property in the MLS with the terms payable to any potential cooperating brokers. Typically split but it can be more or less and/or can include a bonus.
A buyers agent brings a buyer to the table and thereby becomes a cooperating broker/agent when the buyer's offer is accepted. The cooperating broker agent is paid from the seller's broker cut.
A tricky but more well known ( as of late) issue in the business is the fact the seller is paying the commission to a cooperating broker and therefore doesn't necessarily owe YOU a fiduciary duty. In other words, absent additional buyer broker agreements, YOUR OWN agent can legally conspire against you (within ethical bounds).
This is BECAUSE the seller is paying the commissions.
This is how it's worked in the hundreds of transactions I've been involved in.
George II
(67,782 posts)...we're off the track.
The issue is commissions for media buys during the primary campaign. Who got the millions of dollars of commissions for the Sanders campaign media buys? Anyone know definitively?
Hassin Bin Sober
(26,691 posts)George II
(67,782 posts)Bohunk68
(1,364 posts)Selling off all but the house and two acres around it. The realtor is only getting a commission from me, the seller. NOTHING from the buyer. Don't know where you live, but if that is the case, you were hosed.
George II
(67,782 posts)....of the Sanders campaign's media buys. No one really knows for sure.
You say Miles Kailburn and Vallene Kailburn, others say David Hartig with the Shelli and Heather Hartig.
Also what we don't know is who got all of the 15% commission on that roughly $100 million.
NWCorona
(8,541 posts)I'm not too worried about it but I'm sure you already know that.
Gothmog
(154,423 posts)I agree that the truth will eventually come out unless Sanders drops out so that he does not have to file his next report. I would prefer to know how Sanders is paying for the $600,000 for his third house
NWCorona
(8,541 posts)Hopes that the book sales would cover the mortgage on the backend. I personally don't care that he has multiple properties as long as the books are in order.
lapucelle
(19,532 posts)I've always found the Manafort - Devine connection fascinatingly bizarre.
Only in politics could you find two guys for hire who worked together to elect a Ukraine oligarch handpicked by Putin and then parted ways to work in the US on opposite sides in the same cycle for two separate come out of nowhere "populist" candidates
Politics does make strange bedfellows.
Gothmog
(154,423 posts)There has been no public disclosure as to who got the rest of the commission. It was estimated that this is between $4.5 million to $6.5 million
lapucelle
(19,532 posts)Gothmog
(154,423 posts)yardwork
(64,318 posts)dsc
(52,631 posts)only women are corrupt don't you know.
Bayard
(24,145 posts)I remember reading that Bernie's annual income was around $300K. And his house was worth about the same amount. And that he did his own laundry.
What's the point of rehashing all of this? Look at what he is still doing for us--he's in the fight still.
George II
(67,782 posts)BTW, did you miss that a day or two after the convention, when previous contenders for the nomination traditionally go out on the campaign trail with the nominee, he went up to Vermont to close on a "summer home" that cost more than double his house in Burlington ($650,000)?
Gothmog
(154,423 posts)You do know that Sanders has three homes now http://www.vanityfair.com/news/2016/08/bernie-sanders-summer-house
Vermont magazine Seven Days reported Tuesday that the 74-year-old senator and his wife, Jane Sanders, have purchased a four-bedroom house on the shore of Lake Champlain for roughly $600,000. Jane told Seven Days that they had recently sold a house in Maine that had belonged to her family since the 1900s, and used the proceeds to purchase the new property, which is located in North Hero (population 803, as of the 2010 census). With this purchase, Sanders now owns at least three houses, the others being in Burlington, VT, and Capitol Hill in D.C.
dsc
(52,631 posts)both in the primary and in the general election her opponents refused to discuss their personal finances and as you thread points out got off scot free. It is hard to imagine that future candidates won't learn that lesson.
NWCorona
(8,541 posts)The public will eventually find out how Sanders managed his assets while running for president: As a sitting senator, Sanders must next year file a personal financial disclosure with the U.S. Senate covering calendar year 2016.
People are acting like a sitting senator doesn't have to fill out annual financial disclosure forms.
George II
(67,782 posts)NWCorona
(8,541 posts)George II
(67,782 posts)Response to George II (Original post)
Name removed Message auto-removed
George II
(67,782 posts)....he drives.
But he does own two homes less than 30 miles apart, the second of which he bought two days after the convention for almost three times the value of the average home in Vermont (and 2X his reported net worth)
underthematrix
(5,811 posts)Last edited Sun Jan 15, 2017, 02:36 PM - Edit history (1)
It's most certainly is not about his decision to not file his presidential campaign personal financial disclosure form.
Remember this story because it's part of a larger puzzle.
George II
(67,782 posts)underthematrix
(5,811 posts)I have too many tabs open
AgadorSparticus
(7,963 posts)Or, they must be REALLY scared of the possibility that the democratic party is unifying in light of not just the trumputin mess, but the domestic Healthcare mess they are about to unleash.
Unless they go after the fucking peotus about his INCREDIBLE conflicts of interest and financial statements, they have absolutely no credibility whatsoever. This has propoganda written all over it.
It's NBC. GO FIGURE.
Hassin Bin Sober
(26,691 posts)Somebody is worrying about the Democratic Party unifying but it is not necessarily NBC.
AgadorSparticus
(7,963 posts)Grrrrr.....
riderinthestorm
(23,272 posts)hollowdweller
(4,229 posts)Sanders should have hit her hard on the emails.
NWCorona
(8,541 posts)Vinca
(51,029 posts)It doesn't fucking matter. We're within a week of the worst possible nightmare anyone might have imagined. What Hillary did doesn't matter. What Bernie did doesn't matter. What matters is what the fuck do we do now??????????????
R B Garr
(17,377 posts)Response to George II (Original post)
Name removed Message auto-removed
kimbutgar
(23,254 posts)And now we have the evil thumpenstein and rethug control for the next 8 years.
StevieM
(10,540 posts)Gothmog
(154,423 posts)Cha
(305,385 posts)"transparency" but refuses to be so?
That's what this is about.
George II
(67,782 posts)pansypoo53219
(21,720 posts)UCmeNdc
(9,650 posts)Bernie is small patato compared to Trump
bettyellen
(47,209 posts)Same folks thought Comney HAD found something illegal and all those "corporate" contributions went from the CEOs straight into campaign coffers.
Perfectly nice people were misled on many issues last year.
Takket
(22,512 posts)Sanders lost way back in the primaries. Trump is about to destroy the nation. Who gives a flying fuck about Sanders FEC forms??????????
Joediss
(84 posts)Somebody trying to change the subject.....
Arazi
(6,906 posts)Boring as fuck this obsession on shitting on Sanders.
We have much bigger problems. Can we stop this stupidity?
Motown_Johnny
(22,308 posts)He filed the requests for extensions on time. Those requests were granted and the requirement that he disclose his finances ended when he ended his campaign.
No problem with anything here.
aikoaiko
(34,201 posts)Showing that Bernie was compliant.
I love the Bernie hate.
Your angry tears make great lemonade.
Gothmog
(154,423 posts)George II
(67,782 posts)....that dug up 30+ years of articles/events to bash her?
My tears may make great lemonade, but the angry tears of Sanders' fans makes wonderful kool-aid.
Response to George II (Reply #106)
Post removed
George II
(67,782 posts)Gothmog
(154,423 posts)I will be looking forward to reviewing that report
aikoaiko
(34,201 posts)Gothmog
(154,423 posts)aikoaiko
(34,201 posts)I don't know who owns or receives money from Old Towne Media.
Keep us posted on your investigations.
Gothmog
(154,423 posts)aikoaiko
(34,201 posts)Do you think it will show payments from the Russians to Bernie to sabotage Hillary Clinton's candidacy?
Do you think it will show that Bernie has a secret business with James Comey that works for the Koch brothers?
Maybe it will show that Bernies owns the voting machines in Wisconsin, Michigan, Ohio, and PA.
Oh my, the imagination runs wild and it is only January.
Gothmog
(154,423 posts)It may show who owns Old Town Media and why Sanders spent so much on TV ads instead GOTV and ground operations. Read the Daily Kos article http://www.dailykos.com/story/2016/5/31/1532953/-The-Potential-Scandal-at-the-Heart-of-the-Sanders-Campaign
George II
(67,782 posts).....decries the greed of the 1%, became a full fledged member himself over the course of a few months.
aikoaiko
(34,201 posts)That would be so good for you.
Gothmog
(154,423 posts)The $600,000 came from someplace and one likely source are commissions from TV ads. Do you approve of Jane Sanders taking commissions from the TV ads used in the campaign?
BTW have bought Sanders latest book yet? That is all that Sanders really cares about
Gothmog
(154,423 posts)A percentage of that money could pay for a new $600,000 home
George II
(67,782 posts)Gothmog
(154,423 posts)George II
(67,782 posts).......cost over $600,000, almost twice his reported net worth of $350,000.
George II
(67,782 posts)Gothmog
(154,423 posts)R B Garr
(17,377 posts)familiar with Vermont LLCs and local history with that couple. They still have millions to account for, yet smear others with a pious transparency standard they do not adhere to themselves.
George II
(67,782 posts)Gothmog
(154,423 posts)R B Garr
(17,377 posts)he'll be held more accountable for his divisive rhetoric, which he obviously doesn't handle well.
JNelson6563
(28,151 posts)Good thing we are still battling each other and there isn't some greater threat to our world as we know it...
No wonder we always lose. *sigh*
UCmeNdc
(9,650 posts)and we ignore that on DU.
JTFrog
(14,274 posts)randome
(34,845 posts)"So what? So what? So what?" A broken record.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]TECT in the name of the Representative approves of this post.[/center][/font][hr]
UCmeNdc
(9,650 posts)JTFrog
(14,274 posts)but there will be no postmortem on Bernie allowed.
Got it.
UCmeNdc
(9,650 posts)damage.
yardwork
(64,318 posts)emulatorloo
(45,561 posts)Gothmog
(154,423 posts)Response to George II (Original post)
sfwriter This message was self-deleted by its author.
Gothmog
(154,423 posts)Sanders admitted that he was running for media coverage and money http://www.politico.com/blogs/2016-dem-primary-live-updates-and-results/2016/03/bernie-sanders-independent-media-coverage-220747
During a town hall-style event in Columbus, Ohio, the independent Vermont senator said, In terms of media coverage, you have to run within the Democratic Party. He then took a dig at MNSBC, telling Todd, the network would not have me on his program if he ran as an independent.
Money also played a role in his decision to run as a Democrat, Sanders added.
To run as an independent, you need you could be a billionaire," he said. "If you're a billionaire, you can do that. I'm not a billionaire. So the structure of American politics today is such that I thought the right ethic was to run within the Democratic Party.
It appears that you are correct in that Sanders did get what he wanted and did not have to disclose how he is paying for three homes
HassleCat
(6,409 posts)This certainly does not relate to postmortem. It looks to me like another pointless personal attack.
jalan48
(14,384 posts)George II
(67,782 posts)jalan48
(14,384 posts)George II
(67,782 posts)jalan48
(14,384 posts)George II
(67,782 posts)jalan48
(14,384 posts)I should have said, big Wall Street firms and banks.
Cha
(305,385 posts)Gothmog
(154,423 posts)That is an interesting definition of transparency
Lil Missy
(17,865 posts)Fast Walker 52
(7,723 posts)or something more devious? Any guesses?