Union neighbor shocked me with Trump approval.

[C Moon]

I have a neighbor. He's a retired union guy—union through and through, and very proud of his affiliation.
I hang out at his parties and have a few beers from time to time. I don't know him real well, just a friendly neighbor relationship.
We were talking about how corporations /companies buy out other companies and do massive layoffs, and we got around to how the unions have been dwindling over the years.
I brought up that the Reagan years was when it all started. He agreed.
I then brought up Trump and I made a snide comment about the freak (Trump). My neighbor grabbed his empty can of beer and headed back to get another and said, "I kinda wanna see what he will be able do for the country."

I was dumbfounded. I'm thinking maybe it was peer-pressure from some neighbor friends—that he sees more often than me. He "parties" a lot, and we have a lot of tea bag types around the complex.

Why are so many people blinded by Trump's idiocy? I'm thinking tv has created a dumbed-down America. I never watched any shows Trump was on (I guess I saw him in Home Alone). I was never a big reality tv fan. But I'm thinking that's part of what's going on here...why otherwise rational people are so forgiving of someone who should, in my opinion, be in prison.

[Hassin Bin Sober]

1. My brother, a union guy, didn't know shit about politics but hew knew Bill Clinton signed NAFTA.

[elleng]

6. Yup.

[TheMastersNemesis]

7. Clinton Support Of NAFTA Was A Huge Huge Mistake. Workers Blame Him.

Even though the GOP set NAFTA up in the first place Clinton and the Democrats get the blame for it. Plus support of favored nation status and other trade deals that Clinton and Obama supported including TPP looks bad for Democrats. The GOP has been the real culprit all along on economic policy.

This bipartisanship strategy has been a complete disaster for Democrats. Even though they support unions, the optics of their support looks weak and ineffectual.

So I understand why your union friend feels the way he does. He has been tricked into supporting his executioners.

[Wellstone ruled]

13. This is the single most issue to get tossed at Democrats.

Just Cringed when Clinton signed that sucker. Remember how the GOP ran pro NAFTA propaganda ads and loaded up the talk shows with their pro NAFTA Parrots.

The new Democratic Elites got rolled on that one and it has cost us now the Senate and the House of Representatives as well as the White House.

Carter deregulated the Airlines and eliminated the ICC,Raygun killed PATCO.HW Bush brought us the unsigned NAFTA Bill,Clinton Signed the damn thing,W Bush gave us Iraq and ISIS,Obama had to live with his predecessors screw ups and now we have a Narcissistic POS.

[meow2u3]

19. It isn't fair that the sins of the husband are visited upon the wife

but it's often the reality. Too many innocent women are blamed for the misconduct of their guilty husbands, even behavior they were completely unaware of.

[Wellstone ruled]

21. Hillary got Horse Collored

by the Rethugs for the Actions of a previous President. This could have been avoided had her team went on the offensive right out of the gate and nailed the authors of this items. Obama was all over this type of Propaganda 24/7 . If one did not see this guilt via association coming,sorry,this was baked into the Republican message back in 2012.

[BlueStateLib]

16. U.S. President George H. W. Bush, Canadian Prime Minister Brian Mulroney and Mexican President Carlo

U.S. President George H. W. Bush, Canadian Prime Minister Brian Mulroney and Mexican President Carlos Salinas, signed NAFTA in their respective capitals on December 17, 1992

[Hassin Bin Sober]

20. Oh please...

After much consideration and emotional discussion, the House of Representatives passed the North American Free Trade Agreement Implementation Act on November 17, 1993, 234–200. The agreement's supporters included 132 Republicans and 102 Democrats. The bill passed the Senate on November 20, 1993, 61–38.[7] Senate supporters were 34 Republicans and 27 Democrats. Clinton signed it into law on December 8, 1993; the agreement went into effect on January 1, 1994.[8][9] Clinton, while signing the NAFTA bill, stated that "NAFTA means jobs. American jobs, and good-paying American jobs. If I didn't believe that, I wouldn't support this agreement."[10]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_American_Free_Trade_Agreement

[SFnomad]

22. Facts are stuborn things ... Transcript for 12/17/1992: Pres. Bush Signs NAFTA

http://abcnews.go.com/Archives/video/dec-17-1992-pres-bush-signs-nafta-15205420

President Bush picked an appropriately symbolic setting today the -- the North American Free Trade Agreement. Between the US Mexico and Canada. He was at the headquarters of the Organization of American States in Washington the agreement will create a free trade zone throughout North America. The agreement was also signed in Mexico City by president Salinas and an -- -- by the Canadian prime minister Brian -- Rooney. Governor Clinton has endorsed the free trade agreement that says he would like better protection for American workers.

The video doesn't work for me ... but this excerpt is from the Transcript tab.

[Hassin Bin Sober]

27. What are you on about?

Yeah, Bush 1 signed the agreement, the legislature ratified it and Clinton signed the implementation act in to law while praising it.

You and I know the repigs had just as much if not more hand in this fuck job. But that's not the point ...

The point is that union people "know" Clinton signed the act/agreement in to law. The agreement was implemented in 1994

I had this discussion with my brother about how "free trade" is a traditionally conservative/republican idea.....

I had the same conversation about bank deregulation....

And I had the same conversation about buying for-profit health insurance.....


Making "yeah but" excuses is getting old. I know the Democrats are are way better. That's why I've been a Democrat my whole adult life. But make no mistake, there is a reason I see union pipefitter bumper stickers next to Romney or Trump bumper stickers - a lot of ignorance and a lot of blurring of the lines the last 30 years. Oh, and plenty of racism too.

[SFnomad]

28. Re: What are you on about?

Your "oh please..." garbage. To listen to people like you, you'd think that Clinton thought it up, pushed it and implemented it. And to listen to far too many people, he's the only one that gets the blame for it because that is what they believe.

[Hassin Bin Sober]

29. I know and YOU know Clinton didn't think it up.

But he did sign it and he did praise it.

THAT'S what union people "know"

Like I said, I've HAD that discussion with family and friends.

There's a saying in the construction business- "the last guy to touch it owns it"

Repigs get away with spreading bald faced lies with no basis in fact. There's not a lot we can do about it.

But when we play along with their bullshit, we get dirtied up with them. It doesn't give us a leg to stand on.

By the way, I had forgotten how much support NAFTA had from Democrats in the legislature. So I don't even know why we are having this discussion.

[SFnomad]

30. Why are we having this discussion?

Because Clinton Derangement Syndrome is a never ending sport for some people.

There is more than enough blame to spread around for NAFTA ... and that Hillary Clinton was hammered for it during the elections just shows how deep that CDS is.

[Hassin Bin Sober]

31. Yeah, well Bill Clinton signed NAFTA in to law.

That's a reality we have been dealing with for 20 plus years.

[SFnomad]

32. Must be nice to live in world that is so black and white n/t

[yardwork]

34. Why don't union people blame the Republicans?

[Grey Lemercier]

33. Clinton got it modified, pushed hard for the final version, and signed it INTO LAW.

Bush signed the initial version, before Congress voted on it, and after he had lost to Clinton.

It is one of those things where people point to and say the "uniparty" or "2 sides same coin" bullshit.

[lunasun]

2. Uh I kinda don't wanna see what he will be able to do....

[AJT]

3. Oh. I think he meant....

"I kinda want to see what he will be able to do TO the country."

[C Moon]

4. Unfortunately, that's not what he meant. He walked away because he disagreed with me.

[elleng]

5. Repug party has 'studiously' dumbed down the U.S.,

been doing it for years, emasculated public education, for one thing,sorry to say with 'help' of teacher's unions. TV has 'helped.'

Strikes me that your neighbor's searching for something positive, as many trumpers are doing, undoubtedly.

[3catwoman3]

10. Limiting one's thinking to 140 characters...

...one Twitter is helping in the dumbing down effort.

[elleng]

11. Absolutely!

It continues!

[shraby]

9. Name them.

[C Moon]

12. :D Have a nice stay.

[Cha]

14. Disappointing when we know what kind of a person dump is..

maybe a few parties down the road you'll meet up again and he'll have seen or not what dump has done.

[Cattledog]

15. Retired guy who "parties a lot"...tells me everything.

[doc03]

17. I talked to one a couple days ago. I made some kind of remark about

Putin's Puppet and the guy turns red and says he has to be better than Hillary. I asked him how, first off he says Hillary wanted to
take our guns. I said that is a Republican lie, this was the day of the Fort Lauderdale shooting, I said she wanted to keep guns
away from people like the one that just killed 5 people in Fort Lauderdale. His answer they will just steal a gun then. Next off
illegals coming here and people on welfare and food stamps. I brought up the Russians interfering with the election and he has
been instructed by Fox News to blame her loss on not campaigning in Wisconsin. This guy worked all his life as a Union member
in a machine shop, gets a great pension from the Union.

[C Moon]

25. Sadly, I think that "wall" bit worked well for Trump.

But I still believe the election was hacked; and Trump had illegal help from Putin and Comey.

[yardwork]

35. You see the core of racism beneath the excuses and rationalizations.

"Illegals" and black people taking "free" things with his tax money - that's the prejudiced mentality that decades of Republican lies have created. It all boils down to hatred and fear.

Half the country will vote against their own interests just to make sure that the people they've been taught to hate get nothing.

[doc03]

36. Right nt

[nil desperandum]

18. I think

you touch upon a very important reality. People vote their paychecks or at least their concern about their paychecks.

When Forbes magazine tells you the only people to make real net worth gains over the last 8 years re the 1% while the middle stagnated and the lower income groups actually lost net worth you have a condition where the vast majority of workers like your neighbor have an immediate concern.

The immediate concerns about paychecks and the ability to take care of your family will always take precedent over loftier long term idealistic goals.

Your neighbor represents a lot of those voting for Trump, people who didn't care what he said or how he acted as long as he promised to help their paychecks.

Most voters are self centered and vote what they think is best for themselves and they don't much care about the guy next door, net worth and confidence in the ability to secure income are major motivators in every election.

I think your neighbor missed most of Trump's history, Trump is hardly a man of the people nor is he any friend to labor. Your neighbor will most likely be disappointed along with all of the rest of the nation.

We need to capitalize on that reality and work to win back the house/senate in the mid-terms. And make sure we don't lose any more state houses along the way.

[C Moon]

23. Sounds about right to me.

[hollowdweller]

24. Unions have got weaker and weaker

The dems have not really done anything to help unions and their support for free trade has actually made them seem LESS friendly to the working class.

Given that vs some guy who starts talking about how the working class has been screwed and giving free trade shit the choice was obvious to some, though wrong in my opinion.

Clinton however due to a variety of factors was unable to call out Trump as a hypocrite on this, so he was actually able to cast her as a Wall Street, Free Trade shill and himself as a working class hero. Now will we make him prove it? Or will we instead carry water for NAFTA and laying people off?

[guillaumeb]

26. Hope allows people to suspend critical thinking.

A hope that a mythical America can be restored.

[TrekLuver]

37. He kinda wants to see what Trashbag will do to the country does he....well he is going to get his

wish. I cannot wait until his moderate followers start peeling away....and that they shall if this asshole keeps being himself.