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andym

(5,671 posts)
Mon Jan 2, 2017, 02:56 AM Jan 2017

In retrospect, the strongest argument that should have been made against electing Trump

beyond his obvious unpresidential qualities was the rubber stamping of the conservative agenda the GOP had planned-- especially against the safety net-- Medicare etc. The GOP had made very clear what they were planning. So few ads really emphasized this idea (some did), even though elected Democrats knew what could come if Trump won. Even Democratic Senate and House candidates probably did not publicize this enough as perhaps the key reason to reduce rather than add to GOP power. But the public, outside of politically active partisans, basically had very little idea what was coming-- and now they are in for a surprise.

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In retrospect, the strongest argument that should have been made against electing Trump (Original Post) andym Jan 2017 OP
That might have worked, IF... Binkie The Clown Jan 2017 #1
You got that right. nt raccoon Jan 2017 #10
Hands off my MEDICARE! Tatiana Jan 2017 #25
It's not like Hillary, with her $1.2 BILLION campaign chest, couldn't afford to come up with some catchy bumpa stickers and a few hats. InAbLuEsTaTe Jan 2017 #26
Sounds good to me. nt. andym Jan 2017 #30
mostly of his supporters were voting against the safety net since they see it as minorities taking JI7 Jan 2017 #2
Actually, Trump promised to protect Social Security & Medicare whathehell Jan 2017 #4
they don't see those or anything they personally get as govt programs. this is why they didn't think JI7 Jan 2017 #5
I can't be sure what's in their heads whathehell Jan 2017 #7
i can based on what they themselves say and how they vote JI7 Jan 2017 #8
Depends on how monolithic a group you think "they" are.. whathehell Jan 2017 #9
Many claim their trump vote was for economic reasons, but IMO it was to make America white . . . brush Jan 2017 #11
I think they voted for him for more than one reason.. whathehell Jan 2017 #16
And you yours brush Jan 2017 #18
Yes it is.. whathehell Jan 2017 #19
Cool. brush Jan 2017 #20
People get uncomfortable when discussing race in this country Yavin4 Jan 2017 #34
Im amazed how much the campaign was just a game to him. Beartracks Jan 2017 #12
Got that right... as sad as that is. InAbLuEsTaTe Jan 2017 #13
Kaine did the conventional thing during the VP debate exboyfil Jan 2017 #3
If ifs and buts were candy and nuts, oh what a party we'd have!! InAbLuEsTaTe Jan 2017 #14
DT was also lying about this -- saying that he had no intention to touch Social Security pnwmom Jan 2017 #6
The Fuhrer-Elect lie?!?! I'm shocked!! Shocked I tell you!! InAbLuEsTaTe Jan 2017 #15
Nope. The media is in cahoots with the KGOP and have been for years LaydeeBug Jan 2017 #17
Not elected but 'election' triron Jan 2017 #21
You're right...but doing that would require our "expert" Democratic strategists to accept... Ken Burch Jan 2017 #22
The problem with that theory is that no states voted differently for mythology Jan 2017 #23
But the GOP victories go hand in hand with a lack of fear of the consequences andym Jan 2017 #24
My view deist99 Jan 2017 #27
Incumbent presidents are tough to beat... Yurovsky Jan 2017 #28
Yes-- if the US is not in a recession andym Jan 2017 #29
Except that a lot of rep voters blue cat Jan 2017 #31
It's true that a lot of people have been convinced that less government is good andym Jan 2017 #32
It would help if there were democrats blue cat Jan 2017 #33
Very true. Willie Pep Jan 2017 #35

Binkie The Clown

(7,911 posts)
1. That might have worked, IF...
Mon Jan 2, 2017, 03:14 AM
Jan 2017

You could state it in four catchy, inflammatory words on a bumper sticker. Otherwise, what average voter has the attention span, or education to study the issues? You can't appeal to their heads, you have to gut punch them with something visceral that scares the shit out of them. Otherwise, the response is a yawn.

Tatiana

(14,167 posts)
25. Hands off my MEDICARE!
Mon Jan 2, 2017, 09:36 PM
Jan 2017

Secure our SOCIAL SECURITY -- Vote Democratic.

Etc.... there are people who were paid many $$$$ to come up with this stuff.

InAbLuEsTaTe

(24,535 posts)
26. It's not like Hillary, with her $1.2 BILLION campaign chest, couldn't afford to come up with some catchy bumpa stickers and a few hats.
Mon Jan 2, 2017, 10:01 PM
Jan 2017

JI7

(90,455 posts)
2. mostly of his supporters were voting against the safety net since they see it as minorities taking
Mon Jan 2, 2017, 03:28 AM
Jan 2017

from hard working white people.

so it would have actually helped him .

whathehell

(29,756 posts)
4. Actually, Trump promised to protect Social Security & Medicare
Mon Jan 2, 2017, 03:56 AM
Jan 2017

These programs are extremely popular among Democrats and Republicans and there is no constituency for cutting them. Only the Republican leadership and their fat cat doners favor that.

JI7

(90,455 posts)
5. they don't see those or anything they personally get as govt programs. this is why they didn't think
Mon Jan 2, 2017, 04:16 AM
Jan 2017

he would take away obamacare from them.

they think he should take it away from undeserving non white people.

whathehell

(29,756 posts)
7. I can't be sure what's in their heads
Mon Jan 2, 2017, 04:50 AM
Jan 2017

and I don't think you can be either, but you're entitled to your opinion.

whathehell

(29,756 posts)
9. Depends on how monolithic a group you think "they" are..
Mon Jan 2, 2017, 04:58 AM
Jan 2017

If you are saying those who voted for Trump did it solely, or even mainly, to take benefits away from minorities, I'd have to disagree with you.

brush

(57,394 posts)
11. Many claim their trump vote was for economic reasons, but IMO it was to make America white . . .
Mon Jan 2, 2017, 07:06 AM
Jan 2017

er, ah . . . great again.

They heard the trump racist and misogynistic dog whistles, saw a white supremacist put in charge of his campaign and voted accordingly.

They knew exactly who and what they were voting for.

whathehell

(29,756 posts)
16. I think they voted for him for more than one reason..
Mon Jan 2, 2017, 09:29 AM
Jan 2017

and economic reasons were part of it, IMO, but you're entitled to your own opinion.

brush

(57,394 posts)
18. And you yours
Mon Jan 2, 2017, 12:48 PM
Jan 2017

The economic issue is surface, easy, but IMO, restoration of white privilege/high paying jobs for non-college educated WWC was the underlying reason, as it most often is.

Let's not fool ourselves, we know the history of the country.

whathehell

(29,756 posts)
19. Yes it is..
Mon Jan 2, 2017, 01:59 PM
Jan 2017

and it hasn't changed since my last post, so why not just agree to disagree and move on?

Yavin4

(36,214 posts)
34. People get uncomfortable when discussing race in this country
Tue Jan 3, 2017, 12:16 AM
Jan 2017

They just can't bring themselves to believe that it exists.

Beartracks

(13,557 posts)
12. Im amazed how much the campaign was just a game to him.
Mon Jan 2, 2017, 07:22 AM
Jan 2017

Say whatever sounds right, say whatever they want to hear, say whatever makes you look good (or at least whatever you THINK makes you look good.) None of it matters!

Like he was running for Class President in 5th grade...

==============

exboyfil

(17,986 posts)
3. Kaine did the conventional thing during the VP debate
Mon Jan 2, 2017, 03:53 AM
Jan 2017

by going after Trump. In hindsight he should have exposed Pence. Iraq War, no pardon for innocent man, extreme on reproductive rights, failure of privatization in Indiana (toll road), early corruption (misuse of expense account).

pnwmom

(109,535 posts)
6. DT was also lying about this -- saying that he had no intention to touch Social Security
Mon Jan 2, 2017, 04:47 AM
Jan 2017

or Medicare.

 

LaydeeBug

(10,291 posts)
17. Nope. The media is in cahoots with the KGOP and have been for years
Mon Jan 2, 2017, 10:04 AM
Jan 2017

so to pretend the democrats could publicize *anything* is folly.

Russia dictated our dialogue.

 

Ken Burch

(50,254 posts)
22. You're right...but doing that would require our "expert" Democratic strategists to accept...
Mon Jan 2, 2017, 04:20 PM
Jan 2017

...that we could win an election by actually defending our core progressive values...

Our "experts" are still convinced that we can only win IN SPITE of our principles-that we must always act as if it's somehow shameful to NOT be conservative.

Hillary tried to bust through that thinking, but it was just too deeply entrenched-so we ran a campaign that was mainly focused on attacking Trump's sleaziness...a sleaziness, it turns out, that the voters didn't actually care about.

 

mythology

(9,527 posts)
23. The problem with that theory is that no states voted differently for
Mon Jan 2, 2017, 06:57 PM
Jan 2017

President and the Senate. That is every state where a Republican Senator was elected/reelected, Trump also won. To me that indicates people weren't just voting for Trump. They were voting for Republicans.

There are some counter examples like McCory in North Carolina, but the overall picture was Republican.

andym

(5,671 posts)
24. But the GOP victories go hand in hand with a lack of fear of the consequences
Mon Jan 2, 2017, 09:09 PM
Jan 2017

You can say that people "wanted" these outcomes, but what people think they are getting (less taxes, more jobs) and what they really will get (loss of safety net, greater chance of the economy crashing, lowered quality of life, and few if any old fashioned jobs coming back -- steel, mining, etc) is what was needed to be made clear during the election. There are too many voters who only have a vague sense of what is going on, and will vote for someone they dislike least, or who has promised them something in particular that they want.

I think your point in no way diminishes the possibility that many voters had no idea what they were really going to get.

deist99

(122 posts)
27. My view
Mon Jan 2, 2017, 10:05 PM
Jan 2017

What Drumps campaign did better than Hillarys is their message. They focused on 3 primary messages and kept repeating it over and over again. Build a wall, stop Muslim immigration, and create jobs. I can't even say what Hillarys message was or what she planned to do. And every ad I say on tv from her in NE Ohio was just about how bad Drump was.

What we are also forgetting is that Drump just didn't beat Hillary, he beat 16 other republican candidates and was not supported by a lot of republicans. Hillary's opponent campaigned for her during the election. And yet Drump still won. And heaven help us if we just sit around and say everyone who voted for Drump is racist, sexist, etc., and he gets one or two of those things done he promised. We will get killed in the 2020 election.

Yurovsky

(2,064 posts)
28. Incumbent presidents are tough to beat...
Mon Jan 2, 2017, 10:24 PM
Jan 2017

That's what made Clinton's win in '92 so impressive. He beat a sitting POTUS who had approval numbers in at 91% (IIRC) just 18 months before.

If Trump gets anything done that excites his base and gives swing voters something to get behind it will be very tough to beat him. It's just a very tough thing to do. We need to acknowledge that and work like hell to beat the odds.

andym

(5,671 posts)
29. Yes-- if the US is not in a recession
Mon Jan 2, 2017, 10:47 PM
Jan 2017

which is what helped Clinton in 92, Trump will be very difficult to beat.

Keep in mind, after the Iranian's took the hostages Jimmy Carter's approval rating was at 58%, which is great considering how low the numbers would be before and then after-- so Bush's approval rating during the Gulf War is misleading.

blue cat

(2,438 posts)
31. Except that a lot of rep voters
Mon Jan 2, 2017, 11:06 PM
Jan 2017

want to get rid of the safety net. It makes them angry, so it wouldn't have worked in Texas. They know they are voting against the safety net.
And free college...I heard that idea unmercifully mocked.

andym

(5,671 posts)
32. It's true that a lot of people have been convinced that less government is good
Mon Jan 2, 2017, 11:18 PM
Jan 2017

which is why it will be very difficult for Democrats to win in parts of the country where Reagan's ghost holds sway through his propagandizing minions at Fox, Talk Radio etc.

But there are places where the safety net is still important and the loss of the net will resonate there-- even in deep red states.

blue cat

(2,438 posts)
33. It would help if there were democrats
Mon Jan 2, 2017, 11:28 PM
Jan 2017

to vote for. There were a lot of races where R is the only choice.

Willie Pep

(841 posts)
35. Very true.
Tue Jan 3, 2017, 12:33 AM
Jan 2017

The Democrats should have been more explicit about how dangerous the GOP is from an economic standpoint and hit the Republicans harder on kitchen table issues. Instead we focused too much attention on the "Trump is a misogynist and racist" angle. Unfortunately, many people didn't care about that stuff. I even know some women who dismissed "Pussygate" as "boys will be boys" and accepted the "locker room talk" excuse.

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